Shadowrun

Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: AJCarrington on (15:11:20/03-13-17)

Title: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (15:11:20/03-13-17)
While mentioned in the Upcoming Releases, I wanted to give this title it's one thread:

Forbidden Arcana Art… (http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/158230750401/forbidden-arcana-art)

(http://68.media.tumblr.com/7e7800381e271c813bfd74a835b32136/tumblr_inline_omlsxyccIu1s9c9hj_1280.jpg)
The Chaos Mage, by K. VanDeun
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: belaran on (15:43:49/03-13-17)
Where is this upcoming releases mentioned ? Btw, what is the best way to be informed of upcoming releases ? Tumblr seems to be unmaintened...
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: cantrip on (17:05:29/03-13-17)
Nice! Is this reminiscent of a Threats style book?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Crimsondude on (01:08:40/03-14-17)
"a new rulebook in development" per the tumblr.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: KatoHearts on (03:56:03/03-14-17)
"Forbidden Arcana, an advanced book of magic rules. It has new traditions rules, new ways of doing blood magic, some Mastery rules to provide advanced ways to specialize in magic, and more." As per AJC
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: PMárk on (09:01:07/03-14-17)
That seems... Strange. How much is there in the magic department, lore-wise which wasn't tackled in Street Grimoire?  I'm okay with some more magic crunch, but surely that wouldn't be the main part of the book, no? Hundreds of pages of just the above would be a missed opportunity, without a great story/plot hooks/setting material, IMO. I expected the latter from the whole Tarot thing so far.

 And while I like the magic part of the setting, that would actually justify the cries of magic powercreep. Or should we prepare for an advanced book for every archetype? I wouldn't be happy with that, because it'd mean just more crunch instead of setting material (of any kind) and I don't like reading hundreds of pages of dry crunch.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: belaran on (09:10:03/03-14-17)
Back in the 2ed, we got a Street Grimoire - very similar (in content) to the one in 5ed followed later by Awakenings (a second guide in magic) which was pretty cool and really brought a lot of interesting variation to the game. It feel to me that this is the aim of Forbidden Arcana. Also I would not mind some Dark Magics from Street Grimoire, being revisited and enhanced.

That being said, I'm more miffed by this guide not really being announced anywhere. Actually the "upcoming releases" on Tumblr  (http://shadowrun.tumblr.com/upcoming)appears to not have been updated for a while. Before, Forbidden Arcana, I was expecting the Morocco book to show up, maybe followed up by the (cursed) technomancer book.


Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: PMárk on (16:11:32/03-14-17)
Back in the 2ed, we got a Street Grimoire - very similar (in content) to the one in 5ed followed later by Awakenings (a second guide in magic) which was pretty cool and really brought a lot of interesting variation to the game. It feel to me that this is the aim of Forbidden Arcana. Also I would not mind some Dark Magics from Street Grimoire, being revisited and enhanced.

That being said, I'm more miffed by this guide not really being announced anywhere. Actually the "upcoming releases" on Tumblr  (http://shadowrun.tumblr.com/upcoming)appears to not have been updated for a while. Before, Forbidden Arcana, I was expecting the Morocco book to show up, maybe followed up by the (cursed) technomancer book.




Ah, I see. Also, I completely confused it for the new Book of the Lost, sorry for that.

Yes, I agree, more magic goodies isn't bad and some things from SG need to be elaborated, etc. Although I still think various setting books would be better first, but generally, I like setting books more than crunch books. I hope this book will contain a fair amount of fluff to make it an interesting read to me as well.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (15:21:51/03-16-17)
Another art preview from the CGL Tumblr (http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/158474678551/forbidden-arcana-art):

(http://68.media.tumblr.com/e8d05a14a2850d6021eb138ec4c7d79a/tumblr_inline_omwvwxT30B1s9c9hj_1280.jpg)
Statue Choice, by T. Clark
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (21:17:07/03-30-17)
More art up on Tumblr (http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/159018076376/forbidden-arcana-art)

(http://68.media.tumblr.com/3c96735377858b23db4f4b62811862e7/tumblr_inline_onnjfc7Dwj1s9c9hj_1280.jpg)

Elemental Master, by B. Chumley
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Reaver on (00:23:33/03-31-17)
See..

The problem is some of us are BANNED from tumblr.....

(and twitter)...



Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (08:40:04/03-31-17)
The problem is some of us are BANNED from tumblr.....

(and twitter)...

Dare I ask...how do you get banned from Tumblr?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Coyote on (09:25:35/03-31-17)
The problem is some of us are BANNED from tumblr.....

(and twitter)...

Dare I ask...how do you get banned from Tumblr?

Must have failed some Sleaze rolls.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: EiraHaexa on (14:26:33/03-31-17)
The problem is some of us are BANNED from tumblr.....

(and twitter)...

Dare I ask...how do you get banned from Tumblr?

Very carefully, with much skill.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Reaver on (22:44:12/03-31-17)
Quote


Posted by: EiraHaexa
« on: Today at 14:26:33 »
Insert Quote

 



Quote from: AJCarrington on Today at 08:40:04



Quote from: Reaver on Today at 00:23:33

The problem is some of us are BANNED from tumblr.....

(and twitter)...




Dare I ask...how do you get banned from Tumblr?



Very carefully, with much skill.




It was surprisingly easy! Only took 15 posts and about 30 hours from the time I opened my account to the time Tumblr banned me.

Admittedly, twitter took like 8 months to ban me... and I did get more then a FEW warnings.

Just like I do here, I expressed my opinion, in my usual charming way, and …

<Offensive material deleted>

But unlike here, they banned me :P 

<More offensive material deleted>

If you post more material like this, you'll find that this forum will join the list of places that have banned you--Jason H.



Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Crimsondude on (05:39:23/04-01-17)
I give up.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Jack_Spade on (06:49:00/04-01-17)
How dare you! How dare you deny me identifying sexually as an Attack Helicopter (https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/2c4mfv/i_sexually_identify_as_an_attack_helicopter/)...
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (09:42:52/04-01-17)
Ironic...I've had a Tumblr account for years...but have never posted once. I just lurk and mine it for art ;D
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (11:25:25/04-01-17)
To all, let's get back on topic. I've pulled a couple of posts...mainly due to comments regarding the "state of humanity" and how it could impact one's ability to breathe.

SR Mod
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: TonyK on (23:50:35/04-01-17)
How dare you! How dare you deny me identifying sexually as an Attack Helicopter (https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/2c4mfv/i_sexually_identify_as_an_attack_helicopter/)...
I, for one, can live with you being roto-sexual.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: DeathStrobe on (00:43:48/04-02-17)
I hope we get rules for material links, and a few awaken countermeasures like those vines that act as mana barriers.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sir_Prometheus on (14:49:14/04-04-17)
How about actually making rules for using advanced reagents and orichalcum, rather than just listing them and not giving you anything to do with them?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: EiraHaexa on (15:47:47/04-04-17)
Or maybe bring back the awakened minerals from SR4's Parageology? I miss Psilosen and Ithium.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Prime Mover on (18:52:37/04-04-17)
Finally getting Fab rules would be nice and happy to hear some info on blood magic, cyber zombies need update.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Rosa on (22:22:37/04-04-17)
Here's hoping for. .......

1) Spell design rules

2) Proper reagents rules in regards to refined and radical reagents, orichalcum, exotic telesma and unique radicals, also a revisiting of artificing.

3) Astral security section with updated rules for fab bacteria, guardian vines, biofiber. ....etc.

All of the above were things found in previous editions' magic book ( at least 3rd and 4th for most of it ), but not in street grimoire for some reason.

Also expanded dark magic would be great yes.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Reaver on (23:36:08/04-04-17)
Here's hoping for. .......

1) Spell design rules

2) Proper reagents rules in regards to refined and radical reagents, orichalcum, exotic telesma and unique radicals, also a revisiting of artificing.

3) Astral security section with updated rules for fab bacteria, guardian vines, biofiber. ....etc.

All of the above were things found in previous editions' magic book ( at least 3rd and 4th for most of it ), but not in street grimoire for some reason.

Also expanded dark magic would be great yes.

Yes please!
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (19:12:06/04-11-17)
Some new art from Tumblr (http://catalystgamelabs.tumblr.com/post/159457293811/forbidden-arcana-art):

(http://68.media.tumblr.com/1a503884106f14b13835aab1b03730f9/tumblr_inline_oo984rT7cy1s9c9hj_1280.jpg)

Elemental Master by A. Stone
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (00:59:07/04-12-17)
LOVE that picture. Some of the art in this thing is all kinds of evocative.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (08:10:09/04-12-17)
Indeed! I love the contrast of the summoning against the background of the city...hits a chord (for me).
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (08:49:46/04-12-17)
Indeed! I love the contrast of the summoning against the background of the city...hits a chord (for me).

How can you not love magic + urban life? I mean c'mon.

Curious tho... what do you think's going on in the picture? If you had to describe it as a scene to someone, how would you?

(An odd question I know, but.)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (12:37:56/04-12-17)
Pretty simple - summoning a earth elemental with a city in the background. In my mind's eye: thinking of the hills around LA...lots of "elemental source" for the summoning, with the city lights twinkling not so far away.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (15:15:22/04-12-17)
Pretty simple - summoning a earth elemental with a city in the background. In my mind's eye: thinking of the hills around LA...lots of "elemental source" for the summoning, with the city lights twinkling not so far away.

Hm. Interesting! Thank you.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (15:43:36/04-12-17)
I suspect the elemental is not hers, but rather was going after her, hence her back to the ledge.

But she seems to have gotten the upper hand as she has won the banishing test and is in the process of turning the elemental to her side with a quick summoning before it could depart.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Beta on (16:16:02/04-12-17)
Based on the artist name, I'm assuming that it was a selfie by the elemental, on the occasion of its most recent trip to earth ;-)

More seriously, to apply human body language to it, to me it looks like the elemental is in more of a stretching out position (as in "I'm free!" or "I feel the power coursing through me" or "tremble before me") than an attack position.  The human isn't huddling in fear or cowering away from it, despite its size and obvious power, nor does she look like she is trying to escape.  Her hands are in a pretty open position, and look like they could be gesturing upward, which would match the elemental's posture, which overall gives me the feeling of her calling it forth from the ground, and it has just erupted upwards and is still stretched toward the sky.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (06:33:51/04-18-17)
Info re some of the contents posted on FB:

Quote
Looks like the totals for Forbidden Arcana, the forthcoming advanced magic book, go like this: 5 new alchemical tools, 14 new compounds, 51 new mastery qualities, 17 new mentor spirits, 14 new metamagics, 15 new preparations, 8 new reagents, 6 new rituals, 32 new spells, 15 new spirits, 19 new or updated traditions, and other fun miscellaneous goodies.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: on (09:56:26/04-18-17)
Any divination goodies? I'd like to see whether or not the TM book will be in 6th. :p
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Medicineman on (11:55:23/04-18-17)
Info re some of the contents posted on FB:

Quote
Looks like the totals for Forbidden Arcana, the forthcoming advanced magic book, go like this: 5 new alchemical tools, 14 new compounds, 51 new mastery qualities, 17 new mentor spirits, 14 new metamagics, 15 new preparations, 8 new reagents, 6 new rituals, 32 new spells, 15 new spirits, 19 new or updated traditions, and other fun miscellaneous goodies.

quite a lotta Stuff
I'll spread the word over at the Pegasus Forum
How many Pages approximately ?

HougH!
Medicineman
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (13:11:38/04-18-17)
Somewhere in the 200-220 range I think. There's a lot of stuff in there!

(And some excellent fiction. Again, I love Ray's story!)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Medicineman on (15:22:48/04-18-17)
thanks a bunch

HokaHey
Medicineman
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Ogrepot on (16:47:40/04-20-17)
Any idea when it will be released, it does seem awesome...
I also hope there will be new life modules or stuff to make aspected mages interesting to play....
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (02:51:55/04-21-17)
Any idea when it will be released, it does seem awesome...
I also hope there will be new life modules or stuff to make aspected mages interesting to play....

Stuff for aspected mages is a given. Life modules? That, I'm not sure. I know I didn't make any, but, I haven't looked over the other chapters. I don't *think* there are any tho. (I really need to fiddle with those, sometime.)

As for when? Soon (tm) but I don't have an official date. I could guess, but I don't want to get your hope up and then kneecap you.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: TonyK on (16:56:34/04-21-17)
I could guess, but I don't want to get your hope up and then kneecap you.

Unless that's what Mr. Johnson is paying for, of course...
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Marzhin on (17:39:19/05-02-17)
Forbidden Arcana is available on DTRPG (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/211043/Shadowrun-Forbidden-Arcana-Advanced-Magic-Rulebook) :)

(http://fondationdraco.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/SR5_ForbiddenArcana.jpg)


Quote
Ride the Crashing Wave

Magic is wild. Magic is undisciplined. You can try to impose order and understanding on it, but that’s just surface. Underneath is chaos, an erratic heart beating to a staggering rhythm. You don’t control it, any more than a surfer controls twenty-meter-tall wave; you don’t direct the wave, you ride it, capture a piece of its power, and hope to survive. If you do it right, though, you catch a portion of unimaginable power—power those who control the Sixth World don’t want you to have. All the more reason to push past their boundaries and grab it.

Forbidden Arcana offers dozens of different ways for Awakened characters in Shadowrun to harness that power and make themselves a mana-slinger like no other. From new ways to distinguish spellcasters of different traditions to more chaotic methods for summoning spirits to options for Awakened characters who have mastered their craft, Forbidden Arcana shows players how to break out of conventional molds, use mana in new ways, and become true street legends riding the growing wave of Sixth World mana.

Forbidden Arcana is an advanced magic rulebook for use with Shadowrun, Fifth Edition; magic concepts from the book can be used with Shadowrun: Anarchy, though mechanics for that game are not included.


Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (17:49:20/05-02-17)
Getting slow ;)

Also available at the CGL Store (https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/shadowrun/products/shadowrun-forbidden-arcana-advanced-magic-rulebook)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (18:05:48/05-02-17)
*purchases and downloads*

Table of Contents AND an Index?

Truly, it's magic. :)


Oooh... the magic-busting Pariahs look to be a good addition to the Goodbye to Magic (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17210.msg304402#msg304402) Policlub.

Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: EiraHaexa on (18:22:59/05-02-17)
Well, I know what I'm asking for my birthday.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Prime Mover on (21:15:04/05-02-17)
    Ton of stuff in this book.  Enjoying read so far. Stuff I wanted and stuff I didn't realize I needed till read the ToC.
   Making me wish for a advanced cyber and advanced matrix book in the same vein.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: on (21:20:57/05-02-17)
There's plenty of neato things in this. Magic 3: TMs 0.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Reshy on (22:04:07/05-02-17)
(http://i.imgur.com/RCU80Z4.png)

This needs a massive rewrite I believe, mainly because the way it's worded allows you to detect things like Records on File or SINer (or the lack of the SINer quality), Drake or Latent Dracomorphosis, Infected, Friends in High Places, etc. and it seems like anyone that has this quality basically would be omniscient, knowing stuff that's not even tied to your astral aura at all, and making awakened threats much less impactful due to being able to easily spot the infected/drake/insect spirit/blood mage.  Also things like Alibi or Blandness would lose all effectiveness because this seems to turn assensing into mind probe.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Kiirnodel on (00:40:55/05-03-17)
This needs a massive rewrite I believe, mainly because the way it's worded allows you to detect things like Records on File or SINer (or the lack of the SINer quality), Drake or Latent Dracomorphosis, Infected, Friends in High Places, etc. and it seems like anyone that has this quality basically would be omniscient, knowing stuff that's not even tied to your astral aura at all, and making awakened threats much less impactful due to being able to easily spot the infected/drake/insect spirit/blood mage.  Also things like Alibi or Blandness would lose all effectiveness because this seems to turn assensing into mind probe.

I wouldn't say it needs a massive rewrite, but a limit on what the "all positive[/negative] qualities" reveals is probably reasonable. I definitely think that this sort of quality allowing the reveal of Infected/Drake is perfectly reasonable (Infected is already noticeable with 5 hits, as it would be considered an accurate diagnosis of an ailment). I would probably limit it to qualities that affect the character physically and/or that the character is at least aware of. Knowing that the person has Records on File if the character is unaware of it even seems like an odd thing for an astral aura read to pick up.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (01:21:12/05-03-17)
Well, I was gonna pop in her eto say that we're live, but, y'all beat me to it.

Woo hoo!
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (03:21:51/05-03-17)
The Tarot Summoning using the deck is all kinds of crazy random, but this may well appeal to some players who like to harken back a bit to the Deck of Many Things/ D&D Chaos mage style of play....
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Reshy on (05:44:48/05-03-17)
This needs a massive rewrite I believe, mainly because the way it's worded allows you to detect things like Records on File or SINer (or the lack of the SINer quality), Drake or Latent Dracomorphosis, Infected, Friends in High Places, etc. and it seems like anyone that has this quality basically would be omniscient, knowing stuff that's not even tied to your astral aura at all, and making awakened threats much less impactful due to being able to easily spot the infected/drake/insect spirit/blood mage.  Also things like Alibi or Blandness would lose all effectiveness because this seems to turn assensing into mind probe.

I wouldn't say it needs a massive rewrite, but a limit on what the "all positive[/negative] qualities" reveals is probably reasonable. I definitely think that this sort of quality allowing the reveal of Infected/Drake is perfectly reasonable (Infected is already noticeable with 5 hits, as it would be considered an accurate diagnosis of an ailment). I would probably limit it to qualities that affect the character physically and/or that the character is at least aware of. Knowing that the person has Records on File if the character is unaware of it even seems like an odd thing for an astral aura read to pick up.

5 Hits for infected should remain at 5 hits, drakes are supposed to be stealthy so being able to detect them with this is probably a no.  They're supposed to be hard to detect, otherwise they'd not make stealthy minions.  At least not without a similarly high target number of hits, if not higher (since drakes are built to be stealthy, like infected).  Roughly it'd be about 6 successes for a similar number as compared to 3e, before factoring in masking and flex sig.


But yes, I think that noticing qualities would cause issues, because if you see someone with "Alibi" or "Barrens Rat" why the hell would you let them in?  It's very much in thought-police territory, except without needing to resist drain or be invasive like with a mind probe.  Being able to see metagame abilities I don't think adds anything to the game but trouble.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Jack_Spade on (07:20:13/05-03-17)
I've only skimmed the book so far, but there are a few options in there I really like, Mentor spirit mask for example and hello dedicated Spell Slinger. Illusionist is frankly insanely good (hello, permanently up invisibility, stealth and platonic ideal)

Mystic Foreman also sounds like it would be ideally suited to combat the nanopocalypse with its ability to reduce object resistance.

It might actually be worth now to become an adept mage (Apprentice with Health and Spirit of Man, Ancestor Shaman should prove to be quite popular)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: odd on (07:53:16/05-03-17)
The errata thread said there's a nerf to mystic adepts in the table that lists all the aspected.  Could someone expand on what that is?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Jack_Spade on (07:55:04/05-03-17)
They lost enchantment.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: odd on (08:27:00/05-03-17)
They lost enchantment.

Ah thanks.  Thought something might have happened to make my current guy illegal now.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Tecumseh on (20:09:39/05-03-17)
Tangent for @Reshy: Run Faster (p. 141) says: "An Infected character’s aura always reveals its Infected nature, though this may be masked by metamagic as normal." This implies that 1 hit would be sufficient to identify an Infected character. The fluff of Run Faster supports this, as it talks about how obvious it is when Essence Drain taints the Infected's aura. That said, I often house rule this to match your interpretation.

Back on topic: Is there a street date for a print version of Forbidden Arcana?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Reshy on (01:45:57/05-04-17)
They lost enchantment.

Ah thanks.  Thought something might have happened to make my current guy illegal now.


They lost the least useful magical skills?  Wow, how is this a nerf again?  Take away their spirits instead.  Jeez.  So a mystic adept cannot make a magic sword, but they can summon spirits to negate the penalty of losing astral projection.

Tangent for @Reshy: Run Faster (p. 141) says: "An Infected character’s aura always reveals its Infected nature, though this may be masked by metamagic as normal." This implies that 1 hit would be sufficient to identify an Infected character. The fluff of Run Faster supports this, as it talks about how obvious it is when Essence Drain taints the Infected's aura. That said, I often house rule this to match your interpretation.

Back on topic: Is there a street date for a print version of Forbidden Arcana?

Well I guess they changed it, previously it took 5 hits because HMHVV is a disease.  Mainly because with certain infected, like vampires, they're often human-looking and are intended to blend in.  Otherwise you don't really need to assense a ghoul to see they're a ghoul, they already look the part.

Still though, it causes issues the way it's written, like being able to see if someone has a SIN or not, or if they're a latent drake (which only great dragons are supposed to be able to see).
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Novocrane on (02:32:03/05-04-17)
Quote
Take away their spirits instead.
I'd rather see them aspected, tbh.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Reshy on (03:38:59/05-04-17)
Speaking of, there's a lot of new mentor spirits, but what happened to the Dragon Mentor Spirit that the Children of the Dragon follow?

Also parrot shamans, we need those back again.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: AJCarrington on (07:00:12/05-04-17)
Back on topic: Is there a street date for a print version of Forbidden Arcana?

Nothing official yet, though in a blog post (http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2017/05/delve-into-the-unknown-with-forbidden-arcana-new-advanced-magic-book/), Jason indicates that the book is at the printer...my guess is mid-late June before we see in in stores.

An aside, Jason also touches on a change to how pre-orders are being handled for print books...they won't be available to order until the books are in stock.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (07:07:17/05-04-17)
How about this?


Parrot Mentor Spirit

Parrot is the great Imitater. Parrot shamans are into funky language idioms, neat vocal tricks like ventriloquism and mimicry, and obscure quotes from old movies, books, and songs. They prefer bright colors for dress, and disdain subtlety and stealth for the small-minded. Typically, everything they own is brightly colored as well, and their magic is the same.

ADVANTAGES
All: +2 dice for Impersonation tests
Magician: +2 dice for spells, preparations, and spell
rituals in the Detection category.
Adept: Free 1 level of Voice Control

DISADVANTAGES
It's really hard to get Parrot to do anything in a low-key way. He is showy and melodramatic in everything he does.
Parrot shamans also tend to overdo the obscure quotes and idioms bit at times

You must make a Charisma + Willpower (4) Test to attempt to perform any sort of stealthy/subtle action.
.

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Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: DragginSPADE on (08:50:18/05-04-17)
Question:

Over on the reddit thread discussing this book someone said it had rules for players who wanted a more old school type shaman.  As in no spirit binding, must have a mentor spirit totem, can only summon spirits appropriate to the domain they're in, etc.  But on the upside they get some bonuses for spells, etc.   Does it have similar rules for players who want to play old school hermetic mages?  Binding, but no improv summoning, needing ritual circles and libraries, etc?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (09:02:58/05-04-17)
They do offer old school elementals, ie more element than spirit and not so bright.

Less chance of them turning on you, but also not so good at adapting to a situation.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: DragginSPADE on (11:56:45/05-04-17)
Well that's something I guess. 

Now for the million nuyen question:  Is there anything resembling rules for Astral Quests in there?  Or reasons to do an astral quest aside from plot handwavium?  (I know, I know.  This stuff wasn't in Street Grimoire or Aetherology so why should it be here.  I can dream can't I?)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (12:24:25/05-04-17)
Well that's something I guess. 

Now for the million nuyen question:  Is there anything resembling rules for Astral Quests in there?  Or reasons to do an astral quest aside from plot handwavium?  (I know, I know.  This stuff wasn't in Street Grimoire or Aetherology so why should it be here.  I can dream can't I?)

No, but, like a game of volleyball, there's a couple of nice sets for possible future follow-ups. There's a new Aspected Mage who gets to astrally project (The only one other than Full Mage who can), two new Metamagics to increase your time in an astral form (by a little and by a LOT), and several hints about Shenanigans going on in the metaplanes.

Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: TonyK on (13:37:18/05-04-17)
Still reading through the book, but I'll just point out.: Alchemical Duct Tape. :)

Also (spoiler tag added out of an abundance of caution),
Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Tecumseh on (18:05:04/05-04-17)
I'm not seeing any new adept powers, which is a disappointment.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Novocrane on (20:42:59/05-04-17)
Still reading through the book, but I'll just point out.: Alchemical Duct Tape. :)
Quote
Each hit upon activation repairs one point of structure or one box of damage, as per the spell Fix
Quote
An object may only be affected by Fix once and thereafter may not be repaired again by this spell.
Yay.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (16:13:14/05-05-17)
So, what is the verdict? Worth the read?
I haven't bought anything past Data Trails, but this looks kind of promising.
On the other hand, a lot of the interesting stuff seems to be through initiations which in my play opportunities tend to not happen to me.
Edit for a misplaced word.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Jack_Spade on (16:57:37/05-05-17)
There are as usual problems with inconsistencies and editing, some rules that will certainly receive the nerv bat down the line and unnecessary redundancies, but all in all I think it's worth the read.

There are some very powerful options in there as well as some very interesting shadow talk. Not to mention a very necessary boost for aspected alchemists
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Tarislar on (18:53:12/05-05-17)
They lost enchantment.

I'm wondering if that is an error, because, it also GAVE them Astral Perception, which is a bit of a boost IMHO
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Tarislar on (18:56:27/05-05-17)
I'd rather see them aspected, tbh.
Back in 1st Edition, before Awakenings ever existed, we tinkered with creating what would become today's Mystic Adept, and that is exactly how we ran it.  Full mage cost but you combined any 2 adepts (all aspected mages were "adepts" back in 1st Ed).
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Bull on (20:58:34/05-05-17)
I'd just like to once again applaud Waakshani for the Jackpoint shadowtalk section he wrote with Elijah.  It hits some personal notes for me, and was very, VERY well done.  Also, holy shit.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Grinder on (09:07:12/05-06-17)
Also (spoiler tag added out of an abundance of caution),
Spoiler (hover to show)

In which context? In-game our out-game?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (16:26:48/05-06-17)
I'll have to chime in as well with the +1 on the fluff.
Also, I definitely appreciate the in depth on blood magic etc.
Branding something as "Evil" was never quite believable even though it's sometimes the obvious choice.
I myself, f.Ex. see no reason not to have a non-toxic radiation mage (maybe he worked in a power plant or space engineering at the time of his awakening), so giving players the tools to play something potentially evil and hideous, but not necessarily, is a step in the right direction.
Just like infected, really. That the two are found combined in the book is just gravy.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: EiraHaexa on (16:33:16/05-06-17)
I'd just like to once again applaud Waakshani for the Jackpoint shadowtalk section he wrote with Elijah.  It hits some personal notes for me, and was very, VERY well done.  Also, holy shit.

I second this! I actually felt genuinely worried reading that! I'm wondering what's going to happen to Elijah now, since I doubt our resident Lightbearers are just going to let him go. Wordsmyth and The Laughing Man scared? I second that holy shit.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (17:01:56/05-06-17)
That whole chapter was fun to write. There's a few other bits tucked away in there as people settle in past the crunch and get to the fluff. A bit of a nod to the LA situation, for instance, some corner bankshot references to magic drawing from big name central figures, corporate magical theories, talk about all sorta of background counts and magical zones that people overlook, a bunch of new spirit types, Crater Lake, corporate Kami... and the CanRay lead-in story is da bomb.

The spirit contact is something I wanted to do way back in the SR5 core book, honestly. The Street Shaman called out for it, and there's always a nice spot for a group having to go out into the middle of nowhere to get a spraypaint artist to do a big mural to attract a wild spirit's attention who they can then ask questions about some OTHER thing somewhere else.

Artisan skills suddenly getting useful. Backdoor buff! :D :D :D
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (19:32:02/05-06-17)
Damn, he buffed the backdoor. I did not expect that.  8)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Marzhin on (05:42:19/05-07-17)
Also (spoiler tag added out of an abundance of caution),
Spoiler (hover to show)

In which context? In-game our out-game?

It's in the introduction of the Advanced Alchemy chapter, which also refers by name to other Shadowrun books, so out-of-game. But there are other references to Earthdawn in Forbidden Arcana, such as a reference to Passions in the chapter on Traditions (not explicitly named but if you're familiar with Earthdawn you'll know what they're talking about).

Quote
Laverty mentioned something in a language I didn’t grok, but the context clued me into that they were speaking of beings revered by ancient people in the way that some today worship gods. They spoke of how dragons knew about these beings as well. If, during a time of higher magic, elves and dragons followed or revered beings higher than themselves, who then empowered followers with magic ability, that is a paradigm shift. Unified Magic Theory doesn’t come close to explaining that kind of thing. Were these beings gods? Mentor spirits? Metaplanar beings? Do they still live?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: EiraHaexa on (16:23:42/05-07-17)
Also (spoiler tag added out of an abundance of caution),
Spoiler (hover to show)

In which context? In-game our out-game?

It's in the introduction of the Advanced Alchemy chapter, which also refers by name to other Shadowrun books, so out-of-game. But there are other references to Earthdawn in Forbidden Arcana, such as a reference to Passions in the chapter on Traditions (not explicitly named but if you're familiar with Earthdawn you'll know what they're talking about).

Quote
Laverty mentioned something in a language I didn’t grok, but the context clued me into that they were speaking of beings revered by ancient people in the way that some today worship gods. They spoke of how dragons knew about these beings as well. If, during a time of higher magic, elves and dragons followed or revered beings higher than themselves, who then empowered followers with magic ability, that is a paradigm shift. Unified Magic Theory doesn’t come close to explaining that kind of thing. Were these beings gods? Mentor spirits? Metaplanar beings? Do they still live?

Well, given the current state of the SR world, I'd say ol' Dis has been a busy little bee. There was also the casual mention of Thystonius by a certain Dr. Dyna Might
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Beta on (17:44:44/05-07-17)
I'm working my way through the book, and have a couple of questions:

1) the "Yellowstone Incident" keeps getting mentioned ... but is never explained.  I don't recall reading about this in other books, but I admit I've not yet read Cutting Aces or, umm, the' one that ties into the Tarot, whose name escapes me right now.'

Could someone point me to what covers this incident? (would have been great if Forbidden Arcana had included a couple of lines to summarize it, but according to the search function it doesn't do such a thing).

2) Did they just change the primary function of reagents in spellcasting?  Per CRB you may use reagents when casting a spell and set the limit equal to the number of reagents used.  But in here it says that a normal level of reagent may be used to raise the limit by one per point used, which should really cut down on the amount of reagents needed overall (of course they also implied higher prices, but left inferior reagents at the old 20Y price, and made them perfectly good for anything but refining, so ... ).  I did read that right, that I can cast a force 3 barrier and use 4 reagents to raise the spell limit to 7, instead of using 7 reagents to set the limit there?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Marzhin on (18:31:12/05-07-17)
I'm working my way through the book, and have a couple of questions:

1) the "Yellowstone Incident" keeps getting mentioned ... but is never explained.  I don't recall reading about this in other books, but I admit I've not yet read Cutting Aces or, umm, the' one that ties into the Tarot, whose name escapes me right now.'

Could someone point me to what covers this incident? (would have been great if Forbidden Arcana had included a couple of lines to summarize it, but according to the search function it doesn't do such a thing).

Court of Shadows, "The Yellowstone Calamity", page 23 ;)

To sum it up there was a volcanic eruption in Yellowstone, only it occurred astrally rather than physically, tearing a hole across the metaplanes (and notably toward the Faerie planes).
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Beta on (18:55:23/05-07-17)
Ah, I'd forgotten that I hadn't read that one.  Seems a bit weird to lean so much on something only mentioned in a pretty niche product without giving a recap.  And thank you for providing that missing recap!
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (01:01:24/05-08-17)
There's a lot unknown about Yellowstone. The whole thing takes a while to explain, but, "mana cloud appears, lingers for a while, vanishes, then shows up somewhere else" is the short of it.

No one knowns why it exists or how it was created, it just started happening after Yellowstone and doesn't really have a name yet.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Mirikon on (10:49:35/05-08-17)
There's a lot unknown about Yellowstone. The whole thing takes a while to explain, but, "mana cloud appears, lingers for a while, vanishes, then shows up somewhere else" is the short of it.

No one knowns why it exists or how it was created, it just started happening after Yellowstone and doesn't really have a name yet.
Vivane
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Nightmare on (11:22:25/05-10-17)
Just got the book and I'm really happy to see mentions of stuff that harkens back to second edition. I would've liked to hear more than that single post from Red's mysterious friend Silk, though. All that build up from Red and all she did was "regurgitate" the blood mage bounty info? Hopefully we see more of her.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (11:53:58/05-10-17)
I had a question about how Traditions interact with other bonuses that I figured would fit better in a rules question thread, so I put it here (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=26300.msg488240#new).
For the writers consideration. :)
Also a fluff question:
How would a pariah mage see another "of his kind" if he's one of the homicidal rage types?
And was the concept of "Toxic" Traditions/Awakened individuals weakened? I'm all for flexibility, and my pool even allows 'detoxified' versions of, say, plague cloud, but then the Followers of Elder gods are more or less mandated to pick the two available toxic metamagics even though that seems rather obviously connected to most peoples preconceptions of danger and "evil". I'd think that lunatics following eldritch horrors wouldn't limit themselves to the common folks ideas of what a sane person should not do.
Also, I think in the future we also need Tarot casting, or something alike.
The thrill of "What will I cast this time? stay still and let's find out!  ... I'm actually really curious" should be available to all the awakened. :D
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Loki on (12:39:03/05-10-17)
A pretty solid book, great work guys! Some top notch fiction, a much needed expansion on alchemy, and the mastery qualities are some pretty great ways to make your magicians more specialized. The only major shortfall IMO is failure to address the lack of non-corporate early life modules for magicians and LMs for other adept types in general.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (00:55:07/05-11-17)
Just got the book and I'm really happy to see mentions of stuff that harkens back to second edition. I would've liked to hear more than that single post from Red's mysterious friend Silk, though. All that build up from Red and all she did was "regurgitate" the blood mage bounty info? Hopefully we see more of her.

Kevin kicked all kinds of tush on the Blood Magic thing. He deserved to get the spot over me. My whole hook was, "The Draco Foundation for Blood Mages has always been to bring them in alive? We've wondered about that for forever ... and now, I'm here to tell you." His work was way better than what I had, tho, and I was thrilled to get the Wild stuff instead.

And, yeah, spelunking through old books allowed us to bring LOTS of old stuff back that's been missing as well as set a few things up for the future. Some concepts are for future generations of writers to run with, some are for us, and some are, "95% of the fanbase won't need this, but 5% just went, "Holy drek!" Obviously, it'd be cheating to tell you which is which, but, as an example, I primed the Elijah stuff back in Storm Front. Some of these things take a few years to develop.

More on that later. :D
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (01:05:34/05-11-17)
A pretty solid book, great work guys! Some top notch fiction, a much needed expansion on alchemy, and the mastery qualities are some pretty great ways to make your magicians more specialized. The only major shortfall IMO is failure to address the lack of non-corporate early life modules for magicians and LMs for other adept types in general.

The spec didn't call for new Adept stuff, but judging from the feedback, that was an error. Hopefully, we can make up for that with a PDF in the future. I'm already prepping ideas to try and convince the upstairs on the idea, but that'll take a while.

Life modules tho... hrm. Not worked with them yet, personally. I need to look into those more. Need to see what the demand level is for that and what kinds of holes people want filled. Good heads-up!

Beyond that? Hope you enjoy it! It was a lot of fun to work on. Woo!
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Nightmare on (12:46:58/05-11-17)
Just got the book and I'm really happy to see mentions of stuff that harkens back to second edition. I would've liked to hear more than that single post from Red's mysterious friend Silk, though. All that build up from Red and all she did was "regurgitate" the blood mage bounty info? Hopefully we see more of her.
Obviously, it'd be cheating to tell you which is which, but, as an example, I primed the Elijah stuff back in Storm Front. Some of these things take a few years to develop.

More on that later. :D

I remember that priming, both Elijah and Winterhawk were interested in seeing what effect the war had on the forvae, esp seeing as there had been an increase in them. Guess we now kind of know.  It makes sense seeing as Mr. Dark was rumored to be an Aztechnology employee and such. I'm with Bull, though,...MORE BRIDGES!!!!   :o
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Marzhin on (15:17:36/05-11-17)
Also, Elijah had a taste of the Fourth World -- maybe? -- in the novel Fire & Frost.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (17:13:26/05-11-17)
Finally got around to the fluff in the beginning of the book, and... it's actually darn good.
The spec didn't call for new Adept stuff, but judging from the feedback, that was an error. Hopefully, we can make up for that with a PDF in the future. I'm already prepping ideas to try and convince the upstairs on the idea, but that'll take a while.
Hey, when you're at that, now that we have MyAds without Enchanting, how about an Adept variation with it? You have that neat mastery quality with more maximum foci now, and that'd go well with "Hot Qi". ^^
A "Focus Focus"!  ;D
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: TonyK on (19:25:42/05-11-17)
Hey, when you're at that, now that we have MyAds without Enchanting, how about an Adept variation with it? You have that neat mastery quality with more maximum foci now, and that'd go well with "Hot Qi". ^^
A "Focus Focus"!  ;D
"Hot Qi" - worst Awakened pick up line ever. :)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Kiirnodel on (06:58:44/05-12-17)
Finally got a chance to look at the book myself to see what everyone is talking about...

Wakshaani, do you know if that chart on page 47 for the various Aspected Awakened Abilities is actually meant to be a change for Mystic Adepts? There isn't any other mention of changes to the way Mystic Adepts function anywhere else in the book (in fact there is nearly no mention of Mystic Adepts specifically in the book).

That chart seems to imply that Mystic Adepts automatically have access to Astral Perception (as it specifically calls out Physical Adepts as needing to take the Power, but doesn't use the same notation for Mystic Adepts). And it doesn't mark Mystic Adepts as having access to Enchanting, even though there is no real reason to remove that. It also doesn't make any note about how Mystic Adepts have restricted access to adept powers (they have to purchase their power points separately and don't gain more as Magic increases unlike Physical Adepts).

All-in-all, that chart seems like it should have just left off the first three lines, Full Magician, Mystic Adept, and Adept aren't "Aspected Awakened" and don't seem to be altered by what the book is talking about in relation to that chart.

Also, the preface of: "Three of these 'lost' aspects follow" is sort of lacking when one of those three is just an optional rule to allow Aspected Enchanters to essentially get a free Priority Upgrade (the effects of Priority B at the lower Priority C). They didn't even give it  a new name or otherwise alter it in any way. It is literally saying "we all know about Aspected Sorcerers, Conjurers, and Enchanters, but I bet you didn't know about the Apprentices, Enchanters, and Explorers, plus the minor sparks of Aware"  If you're going to make a 'more powerful' (read: available at lower priority) aspected enchanter, call it an Artificer or something and make it so that they can't use Alchemy to make spell preparations. At least then they would be in line with the Explorers, no access to immediate offensive magic, but have access to a high Magic Rating at a low priority.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: odd on (09:44:58/05-12-17)
A pretty solid book, great work guys! Some top notch fiction, a much needed expansion on alchemy, and the mastery qualities are some pretty great ways to make your magicians more specialized. The only major shortfall IMO is failure to address the lack of non-corporate early life modules for magicians and LMs for other adept types in general.

The spec didn't call for new Adept stuff, but judging from the feedback, that was an error. Hopefully, we can make up for that with a PDF in the future. I'm already prepping ideas to try and convince the upstairs on the idea, but that'll take a while.

Life modules tho... hrm. Not worked with them yet, personally. I need to look into those more. Need to see what the demand level is for that and what kinds of holes people want filled. Good heads-up!

Beyond that? Hope you enjoy it! It was a lot of fun to work on. Woo!

Maybe you can try and gather other things people say were missed in various books and make a hefty one (instead of a tiny one).  Maybe have a name hinting at misfits, or forgotten/lost?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (15:05:38/05-12-17)
I read a passage on mundanes describing magic they've seen, including one saying that everyone was hit by a sleep spell, and such was also mentioned by lyran, and it occured to me that, as far as I could find, SR5 doesn't actually have an actual sleep spell.
Besides not being entirely sure, I figured this isn't errata as it was in the fluff section.

And it doesn't mark Mystic Adepts as having access to Enchanting, even though there is no real reason to remove that.
I seem to remember a statement somewhere, maybe reddit, saying that this was actually on purpose, as MyAds are kind of just better than mages, or something like that. Not informed on the Perception thingy, I have my doubts there.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (16:35:37/05-12-17)
I read a passage on mundanes describing magic they've seen, including one saying that everyone was hit by a sleep spell, and such was also mentioned by lyran, and it occured to me that, as far as I could find, SR5 doesn't actually have an actual sleep spell.
Besides not being entirely sure, I figured this isn't errata as it was in the fluff section.
Knockout, Stunbolt, Stunball are often referred to as 'sleep' spells since they can render targets unconscious (doing just S damage) but keep them alive. 
Remember just because the spell has a certain name in the books, doesn't mean everyone calls it the same thing.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (17:05:24/05-12-17)
Yes, I've read that. But we don't have an actual sleep spell. That... strikes me as an oversight, honestly; There's an entire family of mid control ones, but nothing to reliably tell someone he's really tired. Well, suggestion, but when they lay down they'll find they aren't. ^^
I suppose it's not much to do with FA, just thought this could have been the place to put one. ^^
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (18:03:23/05-12-17)
I see it less of an oversight and more just how the game mechanics were laid out.

You see the same thing in Narcojet..  it knocks you out via overwhelming stun damage.

I would allow a MC spell to effectively put someone to sleep, but then it has to be sustained, and I suspect you are looking for more of a 'Fire & Forget' type of spell which SR really doesn't use outside of affecting damage tracks-whether physical or stun type.

You could maybe adapt the toxin rules to include a sleep effect (alternate to paralysis) and then lift that to the spell category.
So a possible Sleep spell may look like this:

Sleep
Manipulation (Mental)
Type: M                Range: LOS
Duration: I (Special)  Drain: F – 1
Speed: Immediate
Penetration: N/A
Power: Force 
Effect: Unconsciousness

Mists of Morpheus
Manipulation (Mental)
Type: M                Range: LOS (A)
Duration: I (Special)  Drain: F +2
Speed: Immediate
Penetration: N/A
Power: Force 
Effect: Unconsciousness

When hit by the Sleep spell the target rolls Body + Willpower + any counterspelling/spell defense(if applicable);
each hit reduces the spell's Power by 1 point.
If the Power is reduced to zero, the spell has no effect;
Otherwise, the target falls unconscious for 1 minute per Power of spell after resistance test.
Note: The spell is not sustained, but rather the duration of sleep is how long it takes for the body to shake off the initial effects on it's own.
Unconscious creatures are prone, unaware and helpless. Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not.
Takes 1 Complex action to awaken a sleeping party, usually by shaking or repeatedly slapping said victim.
Woken up victims will be drowsy and befuddled, so will need 1 CT to shake off the last of it's effects and still can not act. 
The following Combat Turn the victim can now act, but will still suffer a -2 to all actions, after which they can act normally.

Note: Considered allowing Power to be Force + hits on the original spellcasting, but early testing makes me believe it would probably be too OP since you get the full KO effect if it even has 1 Power left after resisting.

Drain is 2 pts higher than equivalent combat spells, but figured it's a fair tradeoff for the effect and to still keep the Stun family spells a viable alternative.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Kiirnodel on (20:46:05/05-12-17)
And it doesn't mark Mystic Adepts as having access to Enchanting, even though there is no real reason to remove that.
I seem to remember a statement somewhere, maybe reddit, saying that this was actually on purpose, as MyAds are kind of just better than mages, or something like that. Not informed on the Perception thingy, I have my doubts there.
By the Core Rulebook, the trade-off between being a Mystic Adept and being a Full Magician is the fact that Mystic Adepts gain access to Adept Powers (5 karma per power point), but they cannot Astrally Project and must pay for Astral Perception (+5 karma and takes up one of their Adept Power Points).

The biggest problem I have with this chart pseudo-errata-change-monstrosity is the fact that it isn't explained, mentioned, or verified anywhere else. There hasn't been any sort of announcement or actual errata listing telling us that there is any actual change to Mystic Adepts.
The next biggest problem is that removing Enchanting from Mystic Adepts at this stage is like telling someone they aren't allowed to wear a hat. It likely won't affect a majority of people (meaning the "nerf" has no effect), might be a minor annoyance to some, and yet other characters are having an integral part of their build drastically altered (sorry balding people, no covering that up). I actually know of several characters that are Mystic Adepts that utilize Enchanting as part of their concept, biggest of which is a friend whose character is basically a Mystic Blacksmith, researching, creating, and enchanting foci from scratch is kind of his thing.


I read a passage on mundanes describing magic they've seen, including one saying that everyone was hit by a sleep spell, and such was also mentioned by lyran, and it occured to me that, as far as I could find, SR5 doesn't actually have an actual sleep spell.
Besides not being entirely sure, I figured this isn't errata as it was in the fluff section.

It's an interesting idea, although conceptually, it could potentially be duplicated by simply using Control Actions to "Sleep" the target.

As far as your posted spells are concerned, are they Mental Manipulations or Physically creating a Toxin? Nothing in your description seems to be treating these as actual Mental Manipulation, they seem to be acting as an actual Toxin. In which case, I would call them Manipulation [Environmental], change the Type to P. Otherwise, Mental Manipulations are usually Sustained (and are "shaken off" through the progressive resistance effect of Mental Manipulations.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (21:18:39/05-12-17)

As far as your posted spells are concerned, are they Mental Manipulations or Physically creating a Toxin? Nothing in your description seems to be treating these as actual Mental Manipulation, they seem to be acting as an actual Toxin. In which case, I would call them Manipulation [Environmental], change the Type to P. Otherwise, Mental Manipulations are usually Sustained (and are "shaken off" through the progressive resistance effect of Mental Manipulations.
It falls in that gray area, because what we want is a mental spell to basically KO someone rather than going through the usual 'Stun them until they are out cold' way that you would via the Stunbolt/Stunball spells.
Had not intended to fully go with creating a toxin in the body, though it could be treated as such, but found the toxin rules a good way to simulate the desired effect.
I would still argue it should be M rather than P, though the Environmental tag is probably better used, but then that means no single target spell version.

But again it was just trying to find an alternative way to do what Unlimited was looking for to recreate the sleep spell for the SR setting.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Beta on (23:01:52/05-12-17)
I'm pretty sure that in 1st/2nd editions, "sleep" was just a fairly hefty AOE stun spell .  IIRC it was base damage 'serious' (6 boxes), so would just need some extra successes to stage up to 'deadly ' and a full ten boxes.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (23:16:45/05-12-17)
Finally got a chance to look at the book myself to see what everyone is talking about...

Wakshaani, do you know if that chart on page 47 for the various Aspected Awakened Abilities is actually meant to be a change for Mystic Adepts? There isn't any other mention of changes to the way Mystic Adepts function anywhere else in the book (in fact there is nearly no mention of Mystic Adepts specifically in the book).

That chart seems to imply that Mystic Adepts automatically have access to Astral Perception (as it specifically calls out Physical Adepts as needing to take the Power, but doesn't use the same notation for Mystic Adepts). And it doesn't mark Mystic Adepts as having access to Enchanting, even though there is no real reason to remove that. It also doesn't make any note about how Mystic Adepts have restricted access to adept powers (they have to purchase their power points separately and don't gain more as Magic increases unlike Physical Adepts).

All-in-all, that chart seems like it should have just left off the first three lines, Full Magician, Mystic Adept, and Adept aren't "Aspected Awakened" and don't seem to be altered by what the book is talking about in relation to that chart.

Also, the preface of: "Three of these 'lost' aspects follow" is sort of lacking when one of those three is just an optional rule to allow Aspected Enchanters to essentially get a free Priority Upgrade (the effects of Priority B at the lower Priority C). They didn't even give it  a new name or otherwise alter it in any way. It is literally saying "we all know about Aspected Sorcerers, Conjurers, and Enchanters, but I bet you didn't know about the Apprentices, Enchanters, and Explorers, plus the minor sparks of Aware"  If you're going to make a 'more powerful' (read: available at lower priority) aspected enchanter, call it an Artificer or something and make it so that they can't use Alchemy to make spell preparations. At least then they would be in line with the Explorers, no access to immediate offensive magic, but have access to a high Magic Rating at a low priority.

The chart had one error, in that the Perception part for MysAd should be marked that they have to buy Astral Perception like an Adept.The removal of Enchanting was intentional, but a second thing never got up and running, which was an "Ala carte'" style of magician, where you got X points and could allocate them in Spellcasting for this, Conjuring for that, and so on, which would have allowed some other options. MysAds weren't comparable to full mages in power level as it stood as losing Astral perception and Projection, but gain PhysAd powers, is an easy call to make.Losing the Astral options 8and* Enchanting brings them to a similar level of ability. The MysAd is *probably* still better, but it's much closer. Losing Conjuring would be too big of a nerf, ditto spellcasting, leaving no other way to reel them back to an equivalency.

This had an unfortunate side-effect of killing a few concepts that were based on them, namely alchemical types using crossbows to lob mixtures around while being a PhysAd which is a rather keen thing and I'd hate to see it go. As a GM call, you could remove Conjuring instead, making them *much* weaker, but keeping the core aspects of that kind of character design. Your GM probably won't have any problem with that tradeoff, and had we gotten the bugs out of the ala carte system, you would have been able to build that anyway, so, hey. :)

Hope that helps!

 
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Kiirnodel on (01:06:35/05-13-17)
The chart had one error, in that the Perception part for MysAd should be marked that they have to buy Astral Perception like an Adept.The removal of Enchanting was intentional, but a second thing never got up and running, which was an "Ala carte'" style of magician, where you got X points and could allocate them in Spellcasting for this, Conjuring for that, and so on, which would have allowed some other options. MysAds weren't comparable to full mages in power level as it stood as losing Astral perception and Projection, but gain PhysAd powers, is an easy call to make.Losing the Astral options 8and* Enchanting brings them to a similar level of ability. The MysAd is *probably* still better, but it's much closer. Losing Conjuring would be too big of a nerf, ditto spellcasting, leaving no other way to reel them back to an equivalency.

This had an unfortunate side-effect of killing a few concepts that were based on them, namely alchemical types using crossbows to lob mixtures around while being a PhysAd which is a rather keen thing and I'd hate to see it go. As a GM call, you could remove Conjuring instead, making them *much* weaker, but keeping the core aspects of that kind of character design. Your GM probably won't have any problem with that tradeoff, and had we gotten the bugs out of the ala carte system, you would have been able to build that anyway, so, hey. :)

Hope that helps!

The explanation helps, although I'm not sure I agree with the decision that was made. I think it is fair to say that probably 90% of Mystic Adepts probably don't use the Enchanting group as-is. It's a very niche magical group, that has already been pointed out as being underpowered. You've even gone so far as ruling that taking Aspected Enchanter at Priority C is equivalent to the other Aspected Magicians at Priority B! In any case, if most Mystic Adepts aren't using Enchanting, and the thought is still that they get too much more than Full Magicians... Have your really removed something that will balance them back out?

I'm still wondering what happened to the way Mystic Adepts were handled in 4th edition or 3rd edition. In 4th edition, Mystic Adepts allocated their Magic Attribute into either Power Points or Magician. And in 3rd, Magician's Way adepts were effectively adepts that spent their Power Points to gain an effective Magic Rating for the purposes of Sorcery, etc.

Fifth Edition removed the need to balance the two, which I think is the real reason why they seem more powerful than Full Magicians. In the previous iterations, there was no way to have 100% of both power sets, but the power sets weren't missing anything. They just ran at a fraction of the total power. We've already opened up the can of worms that is allowing Mystic Adepts to buy their power points on top of being a full magician. That's in the past, and I don't think it is fair to go back and just rip something away entirely. I think it would be better to add in something that limits the other side instead. Since Mystic Adepts have to spend extra karma to purchase their Power Points, and they don't gain free power points as their Magic increases it is effectively limited. On the Sorcery/Conjuring/etc side, a limitation could be the Force(s) that they are able to manipulate safely. There could be a rating (starts out at Half Magic Rating, or something), that rating determines the maximum Force the Mystic Adept can activate Magician abilities at. For example, Rating 3 means they are treated as Magic 3 for determining Spell/Spirit Drain. It can be raised up to your Magic Rating just like Power Points for the same cost. But just like Power Points it doesn't go up when they increase their Magic. In that way, Mystic Adepts would have access to everything, but be severely limited in how powerful they can grow.


P.S. I've been doing some digging on 3rd Edition Magic rules. I never played it, but I have some of the books on pdf from various promotions (thanks Shadowrun Online!). From what I could gather, Enchanting was added in the extra rules book Magic in the Shadows. From what I read, all Awakened had access to Enchanting. The difference between Aspected and Full Magicians was only a line between Conjuring and Sorcery (to which adepts had access to neither unless they were Magician's Way). But Enchanting is just stated as being only available to Awakened (no restrictions). Not sure how to take that...
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (07:49:52/05-13-17)
Well, Wakshaani probably can't do much to fix the mistakes made with 5e.
With the characters I've made so far, not that I've played many, I never really delved into either conjuring nor enchanting, the latter because it was weak, the former for the same reason I never play Cavalry in a medieval setting or play a ranger or beastmaster in other games - I'm just not fond of animals, or in this case of spirits, minions with their own agenda that I'm supposed to care for. Hell, I can't even eat them.
So it'd probably have been fair to say "Choose two out of three groups", and very few would have had a reason to complain. Though... why didn't you just write that? Hardly balance-breaking.

Should you get around to making yet another magic rulebook (It's already magicrun, but you make good books), I'm definitely looking forward to a free-form system.  Maybe with options like "only 2 skills per group" or something. Also, qualities to make enchanting easier if you understand the technology you're working it on or to improve the effect of selfmade items on yourself or decrease the addiction threshold of foci.
But wishlist aside, there's sooo many things to theorize with FA. I definitely want to build an Anti-Mage now, but I'm waiting to find out what the hell "Spell Resistance" is. ^^
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Tarislar on (15:24:14/05-13-17)
I'm pretty sure that in 1st/2nd editions, "sleep" was just a fairly hefty AOE stun spell .  IIRC it was base damage 'serious' (6 boxes), so would just need some extra successes to stage up to 'deadly ' and a full ten boxes.
There was no base spell damage in 1st Ed.
It was all about net hits & staging.
Sleep was an AoE Combat spell w/ Staging-1, so 4 Net hits took it to Deadly (Stun)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Tarislar on (15:47:02/05-13-17)
The chart had one error, in that the Perception part for MysAd should be marked that they have to buy Astral Perception like an Adept.The removal of Enchanting was intentional, but a second thing never got up and running, which was an "Ala carte'" style of magician, where you got X points and could allocate them in Spellcasting for this, Conjuring for that, and so on, which would have allowed some other options. MysAds weren't comparable to full mages in power level as it stood as losing Astral perception and Projection, but gain PhysAd powers, is an easy call to make.Losing the Astral options and* Enchanting brings them to a similar level of ability. The MysAd is *probably* still better, but it's much closer. Losing Conjuring would be too big of a nerf, ditto spellcasting, leaving no other way to reel them back to an equivalency.
Is this confirmed in writing anywhere yet?


Quote
This had an unfortunate side-effect of killing a few concepts that were based on them, namely alchemical types using crossbows to lob mixtures around while being a PhysAd which is a rather keen thing and I'd hate to see it go. As a GM call, you could remove Conjuring instead, making them *much* weaker, but keeping the core aspects of that kind of character design. Your GM probably won't have any problem with that tradeoff, and had we gotten the bugs out of the ala carte system, you would have been able to build that anyway, so, hey. :)

An option for the future might be something where an Initiation grade can exchange the Metamagic (PowerPoint) for an ability expansion.
Abilities could be access to a previously restricted skill/area.
So an Adept could gain access to one of the Enchanting skills & more initiations for a 2nd skill & eventually a 3rd for the whole group.
A Mystic/Aspected/Adept could gain access to Projection, or perhaps something like "Limited Projection" for 1 & then a 2nd gets Full Projection
A Conjurer could get access to Counterspelling.
Sorcerer gets access to Summoning, then a 2nd Initiation gets Binding

Essentially allowing a Priority-D, Magic-2 Conjurer to eventually grow into a full power Mage

That might come across as too powerful, but the sheer Karma needed to do it can't be too different that swapping Attributes & Magic from A to D.
The massive Karma needed to raise Attributes from D to A in level is in the hundreds while I don't think even 200 Karma in Initiations would be enough to expand a Conjurer to Full Mage or Adept to Mystic Adept, etc etc.

But it would make for some interesting roll play & character advancement options.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: on (20:55:34/05-13-17)
Roll-play or role-play? Nonetheless I like the idea.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: TonyK on (00:30:25/05-15-17)
I definitely want to build an Anti-Mage now, but I'm waiting to find out what the hell "Spell Resistance" is. ^^

Interesting point. Spell Resistance is set out in the core rulebook (p. 311) as an adept power.  So is Null Wizard (FA p. 43) limited to adepts only?
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Novocrane on (00:52:02/05-15-17)
It says "Spell Resistance quality". Doesn't exist. "Magic Resistance" does.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Mirikon on (01:33:54/05-15-17)
I'd say it is probably a typo, and they meant Magic Resistance, and say that whoever was writing had just come back from their D&D game.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Bull on (06:42:05/05-15-17)
If we really need to be pedantic about the name of a spell...

In 1st and 2nd edition you did not just learn "Firebolt" or "Stunball".  Instead, spells were broken up by both Force and by Damage code.

Force meant just that.  A Force 4 Firebolt and a Force 6 Firebolt were two completely different spells, and had to be learned separately, and you couldn't "pull" the spell to cast at lower levels, nor could you overcast and throw anything bigger.

Likewise, spells had Damage Codes:  Light, Moderate, Serious, and Deadly.  All characters had 10 boxes of Physical and Stun, and the Damage Codes translated to 1, 3, 6, and 10 boxes of damage. 

An example of this is Fireball vs Hellblast.  They were effectively the same spell, but Fireball had a base Damage Code of Serious, while Hellblast had a base Damage Code of Deadly.

As for Sleep.  In both 1st and 2nd edition core rulebooks, there is only 1 combat spell that did Stun Damage, and that was Sleep, an AoE spell. 

Quote
SR1 Version
Sleep
Drain: S1 Type: Mana Duration: Instant
Special Effect: An area spell that causes Mental Damage to living targets only. Staging is 1.

Quote
SR2 Version
Sleep
An area-effect spell that causes Stun damage to living targets only.
Type: Mana  Range: LOS  Target: Willpower (R)
Damage Level: M  Duration: Instant  Drain: [(F/2) - 1]S

Many of us who played back then still refer to AoE stun spells as "Sleep", and it's been referred to as such in novels and fiction over the years numerous times. 

*shrug*
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: UnLimiTeD on (09:47:32/05-15-17)
I guess the disconnect in interpretation stems from the application of "stun" damage.
These spells cause targets to sleep in the same way that repeatedly punching them in the temple does. You might say "Put them to sleep", but in all other instances I would probably use the word "unconscious" for that. Or "coma".
I just figured with all the spell variety we have now, someone should have probably developed a spell that just makes someone sleepy, like a specialized suggestion spell. That's probably not on this volume though, so I'd like to apologize for opening that can of worms.

Interesting point. Spell Resistance is set out in the core rulebook (p. 311) as an adept power.  So is Null Wizard (FA p. 43) limited to adepts only?
I highly doubt that, given that it's disadvantage is "No Astral Projection". In fact, I have a thread in the rules section currently, wondering if it was the writers intent that it works better for MyAds than Mages.
Regarding Power/ Quality:
Either has the same effect, but it doesn't list a rank/rating, so I'm still kind of at a loss here. For all I know, it could have been intended to be a level of arcane arrester.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: JmOz01 on (23:02:42/05-17-17)
Finally got a chance to look at the book myself to see what everyone is talking about...

Wakshaani, do you know if that chart on page 47 for the various Aspected Awakened Abilities is actually meant to be a change for Mystic Adepts? There isn't any other mention of changes to the way Mystic Adepts function anywhere else in the book (in fact there is nearly no mention of Mystic Adepts specifically in the book).

That chart seems to imply that Mystic Adepts automatically have access to Astral Perception (as it specifically calls out Physical Adepts as needing to take the Power, but doesn't use the same notation for Mystic Adepts). And it doesn't mark Mystic Adepts as having access to Enchanting, even though there is no real reason to remove that. It also doesn't make any note about how Mystic Adepts have restricted access to adept powers (they have to purchase their power points separately and don't gain more as Magic increases unlike Physical Adepts).

All-in-all, that chart seems like it should have just left off the first three lines, Full Magician, Mystic Adept, and Adept aren't "Aspected Awakened" and don't seem to be altered by what the book is talking about in relation to that chart.

Also, the preface of: "Three of these 'lost' aspects follow" is sort of lacking when one of those three is just an optional rule to allow Aspected Enchanters to essentially get a free Priority Upgrade (the effects of Priority B at the lower Priority C). They didn't even give it  a new name or otherwise alter it in any way. It is literally saying "we all know about Aspected Sorcerers, Conjurers, and Enchanters, but I bet you didn't know about the Apprentices, Enchanters, and Explorers, plus the minor sparks of Aware"  If you're going to make a 'more powerful' (read: available at lower priority) aspected enchanter, call it an Artificer or something and make it so that they can't use Alchemy to make spell preparations. At least then they would be in line with the Explorers, no access to immediate offensive magic, but have access to a high Magic Rating at a low priority.

The chart had one error, in that the Perception part for MysAd should be marked that they have to buy Astral Perception like an Adept.The removal of Enchanting was intentional, but a second thing never got up and running, which was an "Ala carte'" style of magician, where you got X points and could allocate them in Spellcasting for this, Conjuring for that, and so on, which would have allowed some other options. MysAds weren't comparable to full mages in power level as it stood as losing Astral perception and Projection, but gain PhysAd powers, is an easy call to make.Losing the Astral options 8and* Enchanting brings them to a similar level of ability. The MysAd is *probably* still better, but it's much closer. Losing Conjuring would be too big of a nerf, ditto spellcasting, leaving no other way to reel them back to an equivalency.

This had an unfortunate side-effect of killing a few concepts that were based on them, namely alchemical types using crossbows to lob mixtures around while being a PhysAd which is a rather keen thing and I'd hate to see it go. As a GM call, you could remove Conjuring instead, making them *much* weaker, but keeping the core aspects of that kind of character design. Your GM probably won't have any problem with that tradeoff, and had we gotten the bugs out of the ala carte system, you would have been able to build that anyway, so, hey. :)

Hope that helps!

What about a choose 2 out of 3 situation.  You can choose any 2 types of magic of your choice.  You might be a summoner/alchemist, or  a spellsling/summoner or a spellslinger/alchemist...

Thinking of a simple (but expensive) ala cart system...what about as initiations?  You can get astral projection or another type of magic each time (So an aspected mage would need to do it three times, an adept 4 times, a mystic adept 2 times)  Hell include Physical magic (You would still need to pay 5 karma per power then...)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Wakshaani on (01:14:06/05-18-17)
Yeah, playing around with an a la carte system but couldn't get it to click just right. I'd love to re-address it someday, but getting the balance right was tricky. I don't think any GM would mind a Mystic Adept who lost Summoning instead of Enchantment, for instance, so that the neat Alchemist Gunmage approach was still viable. It's  big power drop, but Spellcasting, Physical Adept powers, and Enchanting is a pretty nice stack all the same.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Tarislar on (23:04:09/05-18-17)
and you couldn't "pull" the spell to cast at lower levels,

spells had Damage Codes:  Light, Moderate, Serious, and Deadly.

but Fireball had a base Damage Code of Serious, while Hellblast had a base Damage Code of Deadly.

While I agree with most of your post Bull,  I'm not so sure about these parts.

I thought you could cast at "Lower" force.    The "Force" of the spell was your Max power.  But not a Minimum.    (Time to go find 1E again)

Spells didn't have "base" Damage Codes in 1st Edition.
If you scored net successes  you staged them up from Nothing to Light to Moderate, etc etc all the way to Deadly.
Though, Drain was set at a specific code level.

FireBall was Staging 2 v/s Hellblast was Staging 1.   So net successes were twice as effective with Hellblast.  (You only needed 4 for Deadly)

Fireball staged up at  either at 1-3-5-7 successes or at 1-2-4-6 to do L-M-S-D damage respectively.
I can't recall if staging 2 started to stage up AT 2 or if it was EVERY 2 after the 1st which netted you "Light" damage of 1 box.

Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sterling on (05:43:07/05-19-17)
and you couldn't "pull" the spell to cast at lower levels,

spells had Damage Codes:  Light, Moderate, Serious, and Deadly.

but Fireball had a base Damage Code of Serious, while Hellblast had a base Damage Code of Deadly.

While I agree with most of your post Bull,  I'm not so sure about these parts.

I thought you could cast at "Lower" force.    The "Force" of the spell was your Max power.  But not a Minimum.    (Time to go find 1E again)

Spells didn't have "base" Damage Codes in 1st Edition.
If you scored net successes  you staged them up from Nothing to Light to Moderate, etc etc all the way to Deadly.
Though, Drain was set at a specific code level.

FireBall was Staging 2 v/s Hellblast was Staging 1.   So net successes were twice as effective with Hellblast.  (You only needed 4 for Deadly)

Fireball staged up at  either at 1-3-5-7 successes or at 1-2-4-6 to do L-M-S-D damage respectively.
I can't recall if staging 2 started to stage up AT 2 or if it was EVERY 2 after the 1st which netted you "Light" damage of 1 box.

Tarislar is correct.  From the SR1 Core, p.80:

Quote
Magicians choose the maximum rating of a spell when they first learn it. A magician can cast a spell with lower Force if he wants. but to increase the maximum Force of the spell. the magician must leam it all over again
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Sendaz on (08:42:20/05-19-17)
Just one small correction to Tarislar's post.

As per page 92 in 1st ed., all combat spells have an initial Wound Category of Light, not Nothing. So even if you didn't make enough extra to increase it, you still started out at Light before resistance tests.

Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Reaver on (16:20:41/05-19-17)
I think Bull was remembering 2e mostly.

My memory of 1e is fuzzy, but I played so much 2e.... the magic rules are still seared into my frontal cortex.

In 2e all spells had various damage and drain codes.... which made spell casting a headache to track and note.
(Lets see... if I cast Fireball its F(serious) damage plus net hits... but I have to resist F+2(m) drain. If I cast hellblast I do f(deadly) damage plus net hits. But have to resist F+4(S) drain!)
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Tarislar on (23:08:40/05-19-17)
As per page 92 in 1st ed., all combat spells have an initial Wound Category of Light, not Nothing. So even if you didn't make enough extra to increase it, you still started out at Light before resistance tests.
Correct.
When I said nothing I was saying that if  you didn't score a success there was no effect. 
You need at least 1 hit to do the base "Light" damage.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: Bull on (07:50:20/05-23-17)
Yeah, mostly remembering and regurgitating SR2.  I did look it up in both, but SR1 was mostly just confirming the sleep spell was there (and lack of Stun spell). 

I never GMed SR1, and I only ever really played a handful of games during that version, none of which were spellcasters.  And the last game I played was...  Fall of 1990 maybe?  So almost 27 years? 

Jesus, I hate thinking about that anymore.  Gah.

But yeah, my bad.
Title: Re: [SR5] Forbidden Arcana
Post by: JmOz01 on (11:54:25/05-23-17)
Yeah, mostly remembering and regurgitating SR2.  I did look it up in both, but SR1 was mostly just confirming the sleep spell was there (and lack of Stun spell). 

I never GMed SR1, and I only ever really played a handful of games during that version, none of which were spellcasters.  And the last game I played was...  Fall of 1990 maybe?  So almost 27 years? 

Jesus, I hate thinking about that anymore.  Gah.

But yeah, my bad.

Getting older SUCKS...