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Move By Wire clarification

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Wyldknight

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« on: <01-23-11/0045:38> »
So in the MBW description it sounded to me like it said that the bonuses are dependent on level. As in A MBW 2 gives +4 reaction, + 2 Dodge, and +2 IPs. On the other hand my GM thinks it only gives +2 reaction and +1 dodge regardless of the level.

Which one of us is right?

FastJack

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« Reply #1 on: <01-23-11/0058:30> »
You are right. The higher the Rating, the more bonus you get.

Quote from: Arsenal, p. 41
The move-by-wire system confers a bonus of +2 to the character’s Reaction attribute, +1 to the character’s Dodge skill rating, and +1 Initiative Pass per point of rating.
*emphasis mine

Critias

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« Reply #2 on: <01-23-11/0100:18> »
'Jack already answered, but I'm confused as to your GM's interpretation -- why would anyone get the higher levels of it, under his reading of the rules?

FastJack

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« Reply #3 on: <01-23-11/0103:09> »
Actually, as I posted the quote from Arsenal, I can see the confusion. His GM is reading that the Reaction/Dodge is static, while the rating would increase the IP only. But I still think he's not reading it right.

Medicineman

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« Reply #4 on: <01-23-11/0108:45> »
'Jack already answered, but I'm confused as to your GM's interpretation -- why would anyone get the higher levels of it, under his reading of the rules?
maybe because he can't believe that its so good....(sounds like a commercial ,doesn't it :D ?)

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Chaemera

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« Reply #5 on: <01-23-11/0122:32> »
Critias: Presumably, b/c of the break down in the listing below:

Rating 1:
MBW: +2 REA, +1 Dodge, +1 IP, Skillwire 2, Essence 2, Cost 50k
SW(R:2)+WR: +1 REA, +1 IP, Skillwire 2, Essence 2.4, Cost 15k

Rating 2:
MBW: +2 REA, +1 Dodge, +2 IP, Skillwire 3, Essence 3, Cost 85k
SW(R:3)+WR: +2 REA, +2 IP, Skillwire 3, Essence 3.6, Cost 38k

Rating 3:
MBW: +2 REA, +1 Dodge, +3 IP, Skillwire 5, Essence 5, Cost 175k
SW(R:5)+WR: +3 REA, +3 IP, Skillwire 5, Essence 6, Cost 110k

So, until you hit Rating 3, SW+WR only offers an advantage in price. In exchange for that price, you get +1 Dodge and 0.4 - 0.6 Essence (and at R1, an extra point of REA). At R3, without going to alpha ware or better, you're looking at flatlining from Essence loss if you go SW+WR.

For my money, though, it seems like the text could go either way, a comma prior to "per point of rating" would make it clearly attributable to all three bonuses, but as written, it still could be read that way. Which works better, regardless of whatever the RAI might be, is up in the air. It seems excessive to me, for example, to pull +6 Reaction out of my hat, even given the price tag. Consider if that table I wrote up went more like this:

Rating 1:
MBW: +2 REA, +1 Dodge, +1 IP, Skillwire 2, Essence 2, Cost 50k
SW(R:2)+WR: +1 REA, +1 IP, Skillwire 2, Essence 2.4, Cost 15k

Rating 2:
MBW: +4 REA, +2 Dodge, +2 IP, Skillwire 3, Essence 3, Cost 85k
SW(R:3)+WR: +2 REA, +2 IP, Skillwire 3, Essence 3.6, Cost 38k

Rating 3:
MBW: +6 REA, +3 Dodge, +3 IP, Skillwire 5, Essence 5, Cost 175k
SW(R:5)+WR: +3 REA, +3 IP, Skillwire 5, Essence 6, Cost 110k

That seems too good for something that has a better Essence pay out than the alternative. Now, if ratings 2 and 3 only granted +1 to REA (for a final of +4 REA), it'd be a smoother and more logical progression.
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Mara

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« Reply #6 on: <01-23-11/0145:12> »
That seems too good for something that has a better Essence pay out than the alternative. Now, if ratings 2 and 3 only granted +1 to REA (for a final of +4 REA), it'd be a smoother and more logical progression.

Personally? I would expect MBW to be better. Remember: Wired Reflexes is OLD tech..I mean..REALLY OLD tech, been around since before the 50's level old.
MBW is the latest, bleeding edge tech, and it is pricey because of that. Does it cost less essence? Yeah, it does...Why? Because it is using the expertise that
is not involved in the tried, true, and ANCIENT skillwires+Wired Reflexes.

Wyldknight

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« Reply #7 on: <01-23-11/0251:23> »
Thanks for clearing this up. I'll be glad to show him this.

Chaemera

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« Reply #8 on: <01-23-11/0950:11> »
That seems too good for something that has a better Essence pay out than the alternative. Now, if ratings 2 and 3 only granted +1 to REA (for a final of +4 REA), it'd be a smoother and more logical progression.

Personally? I would expect MBW to be better. Remember: Wired Reflexes is OLD tech..I mean..REALLY OLD tech, been around since before the 50's level old.
MBW is the latest, bleeding edge tech, and it is pricey because of that. Does it cost less essence? Yeah, it does...Why? Because it is using the expertise that
is not involved in the tried, true, and ANCIENT skillwires+Wired Reflexes.

Well, first thing is, just because Wired Reflexes has been around a long time, doesn't mean it's the same Wired Reflexes it always was. There's no reason to think that, just as cars and computers improve over time, Wired Reflexes bought in the 2070's couldn't be better technology than that bought in the 2050's.

That's a sidebar, though, to the fact that, from an in-character perspective, you present a perfectly reasonable justification for the GM's that want to implement it in that manner. I only meant to present the "crunch" side of the debate, seeing as, while there is no requirement for game balance, there is a reasonable expectation of a nod of the head to the concept. Some gaming groups prefer a more balanced game, others like the grit of needing to make the right choices b/c you can screw yourself (as in choosing WR+SW instead of MBW in my second example).
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Bradd

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« Reply #9 on: <01-23-11/1852:35> »
I too was unsure about the ambiguity in the phrasing, but I ultimately decided that it's supposed to be based on buying Wired Reflexes N + Reaction Enhancers N + Skillwires 2N. Yes, you get a significant Essence savings for extra Nuyen cost, but that's pretty much how alphaware and bioware work too. They've just found a better way of combining redundancies between these various things, but it's still somewhat experimental (so risk, cost, and availability rating are all higher).

By the way, don't forget that MBW 2 costs an extra 5 BP (Restricted Gear) and MBW 3 simply isn't available at character creation. With WR, you can start the game with 4 initiative passes; with MBW you've got to trade up at some point.

Kontact

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« Reply #10 on: <01-24-11/0607:35> »
WR 3 is technically available at chargen, but 5 essence is a massive thing.

Still the difference between Restricted cyber and Forbidden cyber is substantial in some games which puts MBW III out of the running.


Meanwhile, Synaptic Boosters are still 240,000 for 1.5 essence.  Compares pretty favorably to MBW III.
« Last Edit: <01-24-11/0626:28> by Kontact »

Bradd

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« Reply #11 on: <01-24-11/0613:24> »
The Forbidden thing might not be a big deal in this case, though. MBW 3 is Forbidden, but MBW 2 is merely restricted. It would be quite easy to get a fake license that says your illegal MBW 3 is actually legal and registered, and only the most sophisticated cyberware scanners could tell the difference. Even better if your fake license lists the thing as a legitimate medical device, and you don't throw up too many other red flags. Then the only tricky thing is getting the thing in the first place, and I figure if you can afford MBW 3, you can find a shop that'll put it in.

Mäx

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« Reply #12 on: <01-24-11/0623:06> »
That seems too good for something that has a better Essence pay out than the alternative.
MbW is only cheaper in essence if you actually want the skill wires, if not the essence cost is same, except you can almost get alpha ware WR3 for the price of standard grade MbW3.
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Billy_Club

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« Reply #13 on: <01-24-11/0627:49> »
Add to that the skillwire nerf (10k per rating?  Come on.) and they are much less attractive.

Alphaware + Biocompatibility and you free up a good chunk of Essence that you can spend on other goodies.  Granted, you are nearly broke at this point, but you have 4IP's to console yourself with.

Chaemera

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« Reply #14 on: <01-24-11/0632:18> »
That seems too good for something that has a better Essence pay out than the alternative.
MbW is only cheaper in essence if you actually want the skill wires, if not the essence cost is same, except you can almost get alpha ware WR3 for the price of standard grade MbW3.

If you didn't want the skillwires, I wouldn't think you'd even be considering the MBW. At that rate, I'd give consideration to Suprathyroid Gland + Synaptic Booster or Wired Reflexes at the desired level.

Of course, if all three bonuses of MBW scale with rating, you're still looking at +3 dodge and +3 REA for MBW3 over WR3, for 75k.
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