Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: marfish on <02-14-18/0016:27>
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If I suffer (let's say) 3 point of noise from spam/static zones, would I still carry the noise when I am inside a host and try to hack a file?
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If you're physically in a location that suffers from Noise (due to distance between you and the host, or you're in a shopping mall with lots of spam, etc) yes you suffer the Noise even after you successfully enter the host.
Hence the importance of noise reduction via toys and tactics :)
Of significant note however is the things that are slaved to the host (devices "inside the host") don't suffer noise. So if you're hacking a vending machine that may happen to be physically across the sprawl from its matrix host there's no noise for the vending machine. Just for you because slaving your persona to a host is beyond what the rules cover/allow.
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Hence the importance of noise reduction via toys and tactics :)
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Like good old fashioned fiber optic cabling for a direct connection.
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While inside a host, you can't suffer a noise penalty to anything slaved to the host.
You see, things slaved to a host are part of the host's Wide Area Network (WAN). When you're inside of a host, you have a direct connection to everything in the WAN and so don't get any Noise penalties. It's logical to assume that if this is the case, you also wouldn't get noise penalties against the host itself (as you're inside it) and thus not to any files that are part of the host (in the way that attacking a file in a commlink is attacking that commlink) and use the host's stats.
However, that last part isn't clear. I'll bring it up with the errata team.
There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with multiple devices slaved to a host. A host can have a practically unlimited number of devices slaved to it, but because of the direct connection hack you rarely see more devices than can be protected physically. If you are in a host that has a WAN, you are considered directly connected to all devices in the WAN.
When you use a direct connection, you ignore all noise modifiers and modifiers due to being on different grids or the public grid. It’s just you and the device.
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While inside a host, you can't suffer a noise penalty to anything slaved to the host.
You see, things slaved to a host are part of the host's Wide Area Network (WAN). When you're inside of a host, you have a direct connection to everything in the WAN and so don't get any Noise penalties. It's logical to assume that if this is the case, you also wouldn't get noise penalties against the host itself (as you're inside it) and thus not to any files that are part of the host (in the way that attacking a file in a commlink is attacking that commlink) and use the host's stats.
However, that last part isn't clear. I'll bring it up with the errata team.
There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with multiple devices slaved to a host. A host can have a practically unlimited number of devices slaved to it, but because of the direct connection hack you rarely see more devices than can be protected physically. If you are in a host that has a WAN, you are considered directly connected to all devices in the WAN.
When you use a direct connection, you ignore all noise modifiers and modifiers due to being on different grids or the public grid. It’s just you and the device.
I guess I may be more confused than the OP then.
If a Decker is hanging out in a shopping mall suffering 6 noise (and for the purposes of the example he has no noise reduction at all) he obviously suffers at least -6 dice to perform brute force/hack on the fly actions prior to entering the host. Are you saying that once he's successfully inside the host, the -6 dice suffered due to his physical location no longer applies?
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Yes, that is what I'm saying. As well, it's impossible to have Noise due to distance when dealing with hosts, as they have no physical location by virtue of being strange and paranormal.
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Yes, that is what I'm saying. As well, it's impossible to have Noise due to distance when dealing with hosts, as they have no physical location by virtue of being strange and paranormal.
Soo... what happens then if someone physically nearby the decker in that shopping mall successfully jams the decker after the decker's persona has entered the host?
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RAW hackers suffer no penalties due to noise once inside a host.
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I house ruled pretty quickly that a hacker would always suffer noise from the environment he is hacking from though.
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If the jammer beat the deck’s device rating the decker gets dumped, if not then nothing at all.
Yes, that is what I'm saying. As well, it's impossible to have Noise due to distance when dealing with hosts, as they have no physical location by virtue of being strange and paranormal.
Soo... what happens then if someone physically nearby the decker in that shopping mall successfully jams the decker after the decker's persona has entered the host?
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What PiXeL01 said. It couldn't apply a noise penalty to dice pools, but if the Noise was higher than the deck's DR, then it'd still lose connection and the decker would get dumpshock.
Although, I don't know where the RAW is that say Noise doesn't apply to anything in a host. Only to things part of the WAN, but that doesn't necessarily include other Persona. It also specifies "devices", and so may not apply to the host itself or files. I think it does, but like I said... This is a team question.
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huh. If noise can dump you, it's completely counterintuitive that it can't degrade you without dumping you. I believe you, it just. Wow.
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While inside a , you can't suffer a noise penalty to anything slaved to the .
You see, things slaved to a are part of the 's Wide Area Network (WAN). When you're inside of a , you have a direct connection to everything in the WAN and so don't get any Noise penalties. It's logical to assume that if this is the case, you also wouldn't get noise penalties against the itself (as you're inside it) and thus not to any files that are part of the (in the way that attacking a file in a commlink is attacking that commlink) and use the 's stats.
However, that last part isn't clear. I'll bring it up with the errata team.
There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with multiple devices slaved to a . A can have a practically unlimited number of devices slaved to it, but because of the direct connection hack you rarely see more devices than can be protected physically. If you are in a that has a WAN, you are considered directly connected to all devices in the WAN.
When you use a direct connection, you ignore all noise modifiers and modifiers due to being on different grids or the public grid. It’s just you and the device.
good to hear that I somewhat contribute :) and how about other avatar (like IC)?
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Unless I can find something that says "anything in a host" then other Persona in the host are definitely not part of the WAN (you aren't, after all). The host (and thus, the IC and files that are part of the host) are obviously part of the WAN, but if you want to argue the part that says "directly connected to all devices in the WAN" means it doesn't apply to things that are not a device, like files and IC, there's room to.
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Unless I can find something that says "anything in a host" then other Persona in the host are definitely not part of the WAN (you aren't, after all). The host (and thus, the IC and files that are part of the host) are obviously part of the WAN, but if you want to argue the part that says "directly connected to all devices in the WAN" means it doesn't apply to things that are not a device, like files and IC, there's room to.
The way I understood it was "everything that actually belongs there. everything but you know, the decker".
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A security spider or security decker could be slaved to the WAN I suppose, as awkward as that may be mechanically... That goes back to the awful "can I daisy chain commlinks" thing though.
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A security spider or security decker could be slaved to the WAN I suppose, as awkward as that may be mechanically... That goes back to the awful "can I daisy chain commlinks" thing though.
Isn't the answer why you can't chain commlinks is becauses commlinks are persona icons and you can't slave personas to personas? Stands to reason that personae could be "slaved" to a host.
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Realistically, that's probably not the actual rule as it'd stop PANs from being a thing 99% of the time and reduce a hacker's ability to help his team. It's more something people (myself included, like two years ago) tried to argue because they were pissed off that TMs couldn't slave anything to them for no real reason, which is something I hope to change (if it isn't changed in Kill Code, which it probably won't be) if I get the chance. I'm pretty sure the actual reason is because a device cannot be a master and a slave at the same time, but I'm not sure the book supports that anywhere.
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In the novels, they make a big deal about devices not being able to access the matrix at all in low rent areas (Chicago tunnels, the barrens, et al). However, when you are looking at ratings, Even a corporate drone can barely access it with half of the devices out there taking into consideration Noise, Spam, and Static. Public grid, raining, steel building in City Downtown, during an advertising blitz? -6 hit penalty needing 18d6 (1:3) to get net 0. Subscribed grid? -4, 12d6 in less than ideal situations.
How many dice would a normal schlub get? Probably 4 (1 skill, 3 logic). Everybody makes a big deal about the future being wireless, but regular usage might as well require you be plugged into something wired.
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In the novels, they make a big deal about devices not being able to access the matrix at all in low rent areas (Chicago tunnels, the barrens, et al). However, when you are looking at ratings, Even a corporate drone can barely access it with half of the devices out there taking into consideration Noise, Spam, and Static. Public grid, raining, steel building in City Downtown, during an advertising blitz? -6 hit penalty needing 18d6 (1:3) to get net 0. Subscribed grid? -4, 12d6 in less than ideal situations.
How many dice would a normal schlub get? Probably 4 (1 skill, 3 logic). Everybody makes a big deal about the future being wireless, but regular usage might as well require you be plugged into something wired.
Isn't noise a dice pool penalty not a hit penalty? Beyond that, standard every day use doesn't require a roll any more than walking to your car requires an athletics roll.
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Unless I can find something that says "anything in a host" then other Persona in the host are definitely not part of the WAN (you aren't, after all). The host (and thus, the IC and files that are part of the host) are obviously part of the WAN, but if you want to argue the part that says "directly connected to all devices in the WAN" means it doesn't apply to things that are not a device, like files and IC, there's room to.
Holistically, the wordage needs some clean up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I think the wording is fairly clear. Are you wirelessly connecting to the host? If yes area noise-less your tech to clear noise applies to everything but defensive and resistance tests (Page 231). But it's in no way hard to plug a cable in and not hack wirelessly, I don't really see the issue. This is more for making it harder to brick cybereyes in the mall then to stop you from doing the job.
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In the novels, they make a big deal about devices not being able to access the matrix at all in low rent areas (Chicago tunnels, the barrens, et al). However, when you are looking at ratings, Even a corporate drone can barely access it with half of the devices out there taking into consideration Noise, Spam, and Static. Public grid, raining, steel building in City Downtown, during an advertising blitz? -6 hit penalty needing 18d6 (1:3) to get net 0. Subscribed grid? -4, 12d6 in less than ideal situations.
How many dice would a normal schlub get? Probably 4 (1 skill, 3 logic). Everybody makes a big deal about the future being wireless, but regular usage might as well require you be plugged into something wired.
Isn't noise a dice pool penalty not a hit penalty? Beyond that, standard every day use doesn't require a roll any more than walking to your car requires an athletics roll.
Sure - but static, noise, and spam unnecessarily add icy pavement, frozen-over doors, and a fritzy security system.
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He's saying the penalty Noise causes doesn't remove hits-- It's not "now you need to roll 6 more successes". It's "you roll 6 less dice". You've accidentally made penalties about three times as harsh as they are supposed to be.
Spam is a terrible mechanic, by the way. It's something that should really be ignored; most other sources of noise make sense. Spam makes the entire matrix collapse in on itself. Without its paradoxical impact, you'll find it's a lot more reasonable.