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Author Topic: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade  (Read 196 times)

JmOz01

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Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« on: (14:22:01/05-23-17) »
Okay, Mystic Adept of the Buddhist tradition

Gets new quality that allows Barehanded Buddhist (Forbidden Arcana)

Chooses an Electrical Grenade

Magic 6, unarmed Combat 1, Willpower 5, Intuition 6

How does it work in combat with Dice pools?

This is what I think happens (represent die rolls)

I) Decides to cast spell at Force 3
II) Rolls 7 Dice (2 hits)
III) Rolls 11 dice to "launch"  (2 hits)
   1) Misses target roll 3d6- hits, determine scatter (10m-2=8m in random direction)
IV)Hit area of spell for magic hits, -hits AP (8 Damage, resisted by Body+Armor -2)
V) Take x2 Drain (4 drain)


Jack_Spade

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #1 on: (14:51:34/05-23-17) »
You need Unarmed Combat 6 to use the quality.
Also, It's Magic/3 maximum Force, so F2 in your case.

Radius is Force meters for a combat spell. AP is also Force, likewise damage
Scatter is correct

Drain is 2x(F-1)= 2

If you could cast it at F3, than yes, the Spell would be Drain 4

All in all not the best spell to take as a Barehanded Adept



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JmOz01

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #2 on: (15:16:07/05-23-17) »
Thanks, should have said "Traditional" Buddhist however (My GM is considering letting me switch over from Buddhist to traditional) "AS I UNDERSTAND IT" they get it for free without the Prereqs...but may be wrong on that...

Jack_Spade

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #3 on: (15:17:54/05-23-17) »
Just because you are getting it for free doesn't absolve you from fulfilling the prerequisites to use it.
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Kiirnodel

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #4 on: (17:05:04/05-23-17) »
Barehanded Adept may require Unarmed Combat 6 to take (although that requirement is lowered to 4 if you are Buddhist, and you get the quality for free if you are Traditionalist). But that requirement doesn't carry over just to use the quality. Yes, it requires the use of Unarmed Combat, but it doesn't require you to have 6 ranks.

So a Traditionalist (who gets it for free) is able to use the quality. The only requirement for use is that it utilizes the Adept's Unarmed Combat skill. Having a lower Unarmed Combat isn't going to benefit the Adept in any way, they still miss out on having a good dice pool.

Jack_Spade

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #5 on: (17:22:35/05-23-17) »
Where's the logic in that? You don't actually need to know the basics to use advanced arcane masteries because you subscribe to the correct believe system? (And it's literally that - Paradigma Shift allows you to enter the Buddhism Tradition from one day to the other).
 
"Gain for free" is equivalent to "Gain for zero karma cost" but not to "Gain without fulfilling zero prerequisites"

Even a present can come with conditions.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #6 on: (21:43:39/05-23-17) »
Because someone will totally sacrifice a metamagic to save 10 Karma.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Kiirnodel

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #7 on: (23:06:55/05-23-17) »
The only problem with your assessment there, Jack, is that non-adepts can be Traditionalist Buddhist and they still get the quality even though being an Adept is a requirement.

Requirements are generally something that you need to have to take the quality. The Traditionalist Buddhist bypasses these requirements by simply giving the quality to the follower.

Even if you want to rule that requirement must still be met, that requirement is also still lowered by 2 because of the matching tradition. At worst it would require 4 ranks in Unarmed Combat. And frankly it's a case of: do you really want to be horrible at the skill that replaces Spellcasting for casting those spells? Sure, have fun.


"One day to the other" is a huge stretch, it still takes months to initiate. Paradigm Shift permanently changes your Tradition, it doesn't "unlock" your tradition, allowing you to change on a whim. You're spending a metamagic to permanently change your tradition. If you want to change again, it costs you another metamagic (and you lose access to all the benefits of the old tradition).

Jack_Spade

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #8 on: (05:20:37/05-24-17) »
Just where are you getting from that the prerequisite is only for being allowed to purchase the quality?
There is no problem with mages getting the quality - specific trumps general rules. Likewise I'd see no problem if the text had the sentence "and may ignore prerequisites to use" added.

And thanks to the Metaplanar Quest you can initiate literally within hours into a new tradition.
talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

UnLimiTeD

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #9 on: (06:07:01/05-24-17) »
Paying ever more karma to do so that could easily acquire the qualities one wants, or actual metamagics.

Besides, it says
Quote
Must be an Adept and have Unarmed Combat 6
and
Quote
Gain Barehanded Adept for free (magicians resist drain normally).
Nowhere does it say that non-adepts can pick up that quality, we only infer that because it explicitly mentions a rule that would make no sense if it wasn't so. Why would I, then, assume that part of the requirements is waived, while the other half is not?
Given that, say, westphalian theurgists get an extra mention that they need to have the skills to use Vexcraft's bonuses, I lean towards assuming that "gaining X for free" means the character just gets it, all dependencies dropped, unless otherwise mentioned. After all, "you have to pay 10 Karma" is sort of a requirement as well.
There is no definitive proof of either assumption, so everyone might have to go by what makes the most sense to them.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Jack_Spade

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #10 on: (06:31:33/05-24-17) »
There is no definitive proof of either assumption, so everyone might have to go by what makes the most sense to them.

Agreed
talk think matrix

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Kiirnodel

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #11 on: (15:50:36/05-24-17) »
And thanks to the Metaplanar Quest you can initiate literally within hours into a new tradition.

Where does it say that completing a Meta planar Quest completes the entire initiation? Was that something added in this book?

Jack_Spade

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #12 on: (19:27:24/05-24-17) »
"Time has no meaning when completing this ordeal. The magician may spend the equivalent of days, weeks, or months in the metaplanes but only hours may pass in the physical world."
p.141 SG
talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Kiirnodel

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #13 on: (22:46:25/05-24-17) »
That's for completing the ordeal. You have to do that in addition to the normal requirements for initiation. Completing an Initiatory Ordeal does not replace the required Arcana Test. So you would still have to take the time to complete the Arcana+Intuition (Grade, 1 month) extended test.

Novocrane

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Re: Walk me through "Elemental" Grenade
« Reply #14 on: (10:29:11/05-25-17) »
Quote
Gain Barehanded Adept for free (magicians resist drain normally).
Nowhere does it say that non-adepts can pick up that quality, we only infer that because it explicitly mentions a rule that would make no sense if it wasn't so.
It's a relevant rules statement for Mystic Adepts, no? 'Mystic adepts are a combination of magicians and adepts'?

 

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