Author Topic: Do these overlap?  (Read 2414 times)

Senko

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Do these overlap?
« on: (10:11:50/02-18-15) »
I'm just wondering is there any point to getting multiples of these abilities or would 1 cover the other two?

Photographic Memory
The character can instantly recall facts, dates, numbers or anything else they have seen or heard.

Eidetic Sense Memory
An adept with Eidetic Sense Memory is capable of memorizing all sensory input, including tastes, smells and textures in addition to the more traditional visual ability. The  adept is capable of perfectly recalling any sensory stimulus, or combination thereof. The memories can be recalled at will. The adept also has the ability to photo-read, making it a great trick for those awakened who like book clubs.

Three Dimensional Sense Memory
Three-Dimensional Memory allows an adept to mentally record an area he has visited and then later recall it in ultra-clear detail. This ability is favored by adept investigators and recon specialists. To use this ability, the adept in question must use a Complex Action to view the targeted area in detail. This includes what he actually observed, but also any sensations he felt. The range of what the adept can observe is (Magic x Magic) cubic meters. He can record a number of areas equal to his Magic rating. To recall what he recorded, the adept requires a Perception + Magic [Mental] test. What area he’s able to remember depends on what he was actually able to observe—for example, he wouldn’t know the contents of a closed cabinet but will remember the cabinet’s features
in detail—and how long ago he observed the scene. To determine the threshold for the test, see the Three Dimensional Memory Table. If the threshold is reached, the adept can mentally walk through the scene and recall everything he mentally recorded; however, he will be unable to interact with anything in the scene.

To me it seems the photographic memory quality with the eidetic memory senses would duplicate the three dimensional sense memory without the need for a complex action. You just recall whatever the stimulous was. Does that seem right, I ask because all 3 of these are in different books but what they offer seems to overlap.

Herr Brackhaus

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #1 on: (10:53:14/02-18-15) »
Thematically, probably not. Mechanically, yes and no.

Photographic Memory: +2 dice pool modifier to all Memory tests
Eidetic Sense Memory: No real mechanics; needs errata?
Three Dimensional Memory: Special, as per rules on page 175 of Street Grimoire

To my mind, Three Dimensional Memory should be considered a Memory test so I'd probably allow Photographic Memory to add +2 dice to the Perception + Magic [Mental] test as a sort of synergy bonus.

As written Eidetic Sense Memory has no real mechanical benefit, so it would be of limited use as I see it.

Sir_Prometheus

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #2 on: (16:27:34/02-18-15) »
No real mechanic benefit other than the GM will let you remember everything perfectly without a test.  It's the auto succeed version of everything else. 

Herr Brackhaus

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #3 on: (17:05:04/02-18-15) »
No real mechanic benefit other than the GM will may let you remember everything perfectly without a test.  It's the auto succeed version of everything else.
Fixed.

For the .5 Power Point cost I certainly wouldn't let Eidetic Sense Memory let you remember everything you ever experience with no test. It would then have the potential of making Photographic Memory and Three Dimensional Memory effectively redundant.

Again, my belief is that Eidetic Sense Memeory is missing mechanical effects, given that Photgraphic Memory provides a +2 dice pool modifier to Memory tests instead of automatically allowing you to "instantly recall facts, dates, numbers or anything else they have seen or heard."

Senko

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #4 on: (17:57:05/02-18-15) »
That is how its written though.

Herr Brackhaus

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #5 on: (18:07:19/02-18-15) »
And Submersion was written as costing 30 Karma, while the Rainforest Carbine was pretty clearly overpowered; my point is that RAW only goes so far, and I did clearly state what I would do, not what RAW stated. In my opinion, perfectly recalling everything you've ever experienced without a test is too cheap at .5 Power Point.

EDIT:
Looking back to 4th Edition, Eidetic Sense Memory has the same non-specific mechanical effect, while Photographic Memory would lower the threshold of a memory related test by 1. Seems like this is not a new case.
« Last Edit: (18:19:07/02-18-15) by Herr Brackhaus »

Triskavanski

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #6 on: (21:16:08/02-18-15) »
Mind you its Eidetic Sense Memory.

Biggest area it doesn't provide any bonuses is matrix stuff. Especially VR.

A .5 point power that does basically nothing is well.. basically that. It really doesn't do a whole lot other than "Can I remember things I sensed? Yes"

You know what else does that? Being a player with a very good memory yourself. You'd often bypass a lot of memory checks a player with a more spotty memory. Or writing stuff down in a journal. I'd have it where you remember more ot the superficial type of things, the things you sense.. But well trying to remember a page of information or something else more complex would require a memory check. You remember you looked at a page, you remember it had words, and you can kinda see the shapes of the words.. but you can't pull out the meaning of the words without a memory test.


Now 3d memory is something different. It creates a pulse, where you've got an area memorized, and can walk around in it. This is more than a sense. Its kinda like someone took a very high quality 3d snapshot of an environment that you can walk around in.
Concepts are great, but implementation sucks. Why not improve it?

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Senko

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #7 on: (21:18:46/02-18-15) »
So all I need is eidetic memory sense then ;D. Seriously perhaps you could provide it as an upgrade chain (don't normally play adepts so not sure if this would work). That is . . .

Photographic memory: Can instantly recall anything you've seen or heard (+2 to die pool for facts, dates, figures, conversations).
Eidetic sense memory: Requires photographic memory, in addition to remembering what you saw/heard you can also recall things you experienced via your other senses smell, sound, touch, emotions (+2 die pool to smells, whether something felt clammy or gritty, if it was hot, the sensation of fear etc).
Three dimensional memory: Requires photographic memory and eidetic memory sense, can combine all your various memories to create a 3d recording (you don't just remember what person x said, you replay the entire scene sights, sounds, smells, emotions, etc).

Would that work do you think? Essentially the difference would be . . .

Photographic: You can recall what you saw (he was wearing a gray suit, had glasses and looked rather pale, he said it was the CFD and then someone shot him).
Eidetic: You can recall all your other experiences (He smelt like he hadn't bathed in weeks, it was a cold night, there was no bang before the bullet hit him but I felt it pass by me).
3d: You can combine them all to actually relive the scene inside your head (there's a sheen over his glasses I think they're AR, the bullet came in almost flat over my right shoulder, the shooter must have been nearly at street level not up on a roof.)

@Triskavanski
The problem with that is it specifcally states you can do photographic reading i.e call up a page of text you looked at. Admitedly it could be a different between "THe battle of the bulge was fought in X" and calling up a page with that information and reading it off your memory but that seems rather convulated.
« Last Edit: (21:21:11/02-18-15) by Senko »

Tarislar

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #8 on: (23:46:25/05-27-17) »
Sorry for the thread necro but just came across this & had been thinking about it.

I see ESM as being the Magically powered verson of Photographic Memory.

ANYONE can take PM as a Positive quality.   But you have to be an Adept to get ESM & as such it has better performance.

Instead of the +2 that PM offers I'd just chalk it up to auto passing those tests.


The question to me is where does 3DM come into the equation.

I'm not sure how to handle that one since they have quite the set of tests there for what I would think ESM & PM would already cover a lot of.

Rooks

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Re: Do these overlap?
« Reply #9 on: (00:59:24/05-28-17) »
Visualizer is the cybernetic version of 3d memory Neuro-retention enhancer flashback system is the bio version of the photographic memory Hyperthymesia is the closest to eidetic memory which is the following

This genetic mutation causes an enlarged temporal
lobe and caudate nucleus in the brain. This enables you
to have true perfect memory. You can recall memories
just like you were watching them happen over again.
You could recall the exact date and day of the week of
your twelfth birthday and remember what flavor soycake
you had. The downside is that it is hard to forget
the bad things you have experienced. This augmentation
gives you a +2 on memory related tests, lets you
ignore Memory Test glitches, and turns Memory Test
critical glitches into regular glitches. Since you also
perfectly remember negative experiences, the threshold
for Composure Tests that deal with reacting to bad
memories (either from events during play or from qualities
like Flashbacks or Phobia) increases by 1.

s eidetic memory and photographic memory are popularly used interchangeably, they are also distinguished, with eidetic memory referring to the ability to view memories like photographs for a few minutes, and photographic memory referring to the ability to recall pages of text or numbers, or similar
« Last Edit: (01:01:50/05-28-17) by Rooks »