Author Topic: credstick to credstick transfers?  (Read 351 times)

CyberKumiko

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credstick to credstick transfers?
« on: (12:46:48/01-30-18) »

I know it seems only a minor point, but do GM's allow this action ? Is it mentioned in the Core rules at all ?

If so, presumably this is done wirelessly but maybe they could be connected via USB equivelent ?




Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #1 on: (12:49:51/01-30-18) »
Not sure why you'd want to use a cable to connect them as opposed to doing wireless transfers, but I don't see why you couldn't.  Virtually everything electronic has universal ports, credsticks are probably included.  Surely you can plug them into registers or ATM-analogues for payments/withdrawals, after all.

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #2 on: (12:53:46/01-30-18) »
It's not spelled out, but yes, you can.  Two commlinks (or similar devices) have to have a credstick plugged into each one (as credsticks never have built-in wireless) and then they are able to transfer the money as normal.  This could be done on the open grid, but you could also just use a UDC cable to connect the two if you feel the need to.

Credsticks can't do anything on their own; you need a device to read them (which is a standard feature on all commlinks) and then you can treat them as basically a little digital coin pouch.
« Last Edit: (12:56:28/01-30-18) by firebug »
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CyberKumiko

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #3 on: (13:09:28/01-30-18) »
Thanks much; that helps a lot. Frag it I forgot about the comlink functionality; obviously divvying up the teams pay using comlinks is a given.

Good reason to use direct connection is making your transfer hack proof! Obviously that's a dick on compared to a wireless transfer but secure.  Something tells me my players would feel agrieved if their recent nuyen was intercepted & stolen wtith a Spoof action !  Still i,m considering using that in my upcoming campaign.

firebug

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #4 on: (13:14:31/01-30-18) »
Quote
Even the most basic of them includes AR Matrix browsing capability, multiple telephone and radio modes of real-time talk and text, music players, micro trid-projectors, touchscreen displays, built in high-resolution digital video and still image cameras, image/text and RFID tag scanners, built-in GPS guidance systems, chip players, credstick readers, retractable earbuds, voice-access dialing, textto- speech and speech-to-text technologies, and a shock and water resistant case.

Be careful not to really piss off your players by having someone steal money from them.  I'd make sure they would immediately have a potential suspect and that it doesn't seem to come out of nowhere, so that they understand it's a plot hook and not just "shit happens".
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Tecumseh

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #5 on: (16:22:54/01-30-18) »
If we go back to previous editions, a credstick-to-credstick transfer is possible. From Sprawl Sites, p. 126 (where the street date was 2050):

"It is also possible to conduct transactions through direct connection between credsticks. Before the money becomes available, however, an electronic banking machine must be accessed and the information on the exchange forwarded to the proper financial institutions."

In the 5E world, a commlink would fill the role of the electronic banking machine. This step could likely be skipped for certified credsticks, which aren't tied to a specific person/account. That would be the closest thing to a cash exchange in 2080.

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #6 on: (22:28:28/01-30-18) »
Quote
Even the most basic of them includes AR Matrix browsing capability, multiple telephone and radio modes of real-time talk and text, music players, micro trid-projectors, touchscreen displays, built in high-resolution digital video and still image cameras, image/text and RFID tag scanners, built-in GPS guidance systems, chip players, credstick readers, retractable earbuds, voice-access dialing, textto- speech and speech-to-text technologies, and a shock and water resistant case.

Be careful not to really piss off your players by having someone steal money from them.  I'd make sure they would immediately have a potential suspect and that it doesn't seem to come out of nowhere, so that they understand it's a plot hook and not just "shit happens".
Well, unless they're running around with their commlinks on public, without any matrix support to help secure them, and accessing shady sites and all that. If they're doing the digital equivalent of walking through the Barrens at night flashing money without being obviously armed, then they deserve what happens. They'll learn a good lesson in tradecraft, as they hunt the thieves down.
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farothel

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #7 on: (11:59:34/01-31-18) »
I'm not sure where I read it, but I think I read somewhere (probably a 4th edition source book) that credsticks are quite secure against hacking.  Of course, given enough time, everything is hackable, but it was set up so that you had to spend quite an effort to do so.  And if credsticks have wireless, then it's going to be a very faint one (like RFID tags), so any hacker has to be within 1 meter of the credstick.  Your players might suck at perception, but they should notice that.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #8 on: (12:02:57/01-31-18) »
The device rating chart shows Credsticks as having an obnoxious device rating (compared to most things), so that's helping them be hard to hack.  Supposedly... even a 5 for device rating is very do-able for an optimized/experienced hacker.

firebug

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #9 on: (12:12:04/01-31-18) »
Well, the method suggested by CyberKumiko would make thing easy.  They said "spoof", meaning, Spoof Command.

Quote from: SR5 Core Rulebook
You spoof a device’s owner’s identity, making the device think that your command is a legitimate one from its owner. You need one mark on the icon you are imitating; you do not need a mark on the target. The opposing dice roll is still based on the target, though. This trick only works on devices and agents, not IC, sprites, hosts, personas, or any other icons.

A credstick is DR 5, so it'd be your Hacking + Intuition against a dice pool of only 10, with the objective being to get the person's commlink to think it was told to transfer funds to your account during the small time frame that their credstick is plugged in.

Mind you, this would have a few catches.  One, you'd need to do it before they actually transferred the nuyen, or else shortly after on the other person.  People won't have the credsticks plugged in for long, there's just no reason to do that.  Another issue is that Spoof Command does absolutely nothing to remove traces of activity; there could be some way to tell from their commlink or the credstick that another transfer was authorized--  Not leaving a data trail on the web is different than credsticks not having any kind of log at all about their use.  You might even be able to get the commcode of the person who stole your money (after all, they would need to input an address for the nuyen to be sent, it wouldn't automatically know).

With a burning/prepaid commlink (where the commcode being used isn't the same as the one you're hacking from) and expert timing this could still be pulled off.  But it would leave clues a savvy and well-connected group of PCs could follow.
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Ghost Rigger

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #10 on: (13:31:38/01-31-18) »
So in short, credstick theft is more viable than creditstick hacking?

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #11 on: (13:32:50/01-31-18) »
So in short, credstick theft is more viable than creditstick hacking?

Yes.
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SpellBinder

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #12 on: (16:16:07/01-31-18) »
So in short, credstick theft is more viable than creditstick hacking?
Yes.
With the drawback that until you slot the credstick you likely have no idea how much money you happened to have stolen.

And in the old Unwired book was details on how to forge credsticks, essentially copying one to counterfeit nuyen.  It didn't last long, though.

firebug

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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #13 on: (17:34:17/01-31-18) »
There's no details on it, but in 5th Edition you can still use Forgery to fake a number on a credstick, but fake nuyen is worthless (literally) and I'm not even certain you could transfer it between credsticks (as it'd just come up as "ERROR" on the receiving end).  There's a reason nobody uses the Forgery skill...
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Re: credstick to credstick transfers?
« Reply #14 on: (17:52:54/01-31-18) »
There's no details on it, but in 5th Edition you can still use Forgery to fake a number on a credstick, but fake nuyen is worthless (literally) and I'm not even certain you could transfer it between credsticks (as it'd just come up as "ERROR" on the receiving end).  There's a reason nobody uses the Forgery skill...

Forgery has its uses, but not as a "direct money maker" by forging currencies. However, forging items like rare coins, or minor works of art, or even supplementary items like ID badges to go with a hacked employee code.
True, you now have to sell those items, which can be a run in and of itself... But can gain a bonus to bluff and intimidate checks when you can show off a passable forged physical ID to go along with your SIN title. (Looking at you Private Detective, Special Agent, and Corp Security fake SINs!
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