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How long would any of a great dragons actually last vs modern day military?

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Nath

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« Reply #15 on: <03-28-13/1400:34> »
Also, great dragons have this awesome ability called Twist Fate. "oh look, the nuke was faulty"
The possible uses of the Twist Fate power require either the dragon to target "a creature it can see" (to negate the use of Edge), "a creature in its line of sight" (to force re-rolling any dice that hit)  or "characters in the dragon's line of sight" (to give Edge).

DamienHollow

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« Reply #16 on: <03-28-13/2311:23> »
I think the question is, why are we fighting them directly? Dragons don't fight like that. Honestly I think we'd shred them with this sort of firepower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZU-23-2 . The issue is, they never fight directly. They'd have us fighting each other.

RHat

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« Reply #17 on: <03-28-13/2313:23> »
I think the question is, why are we fighting them directly? Dragons don't fight like that. Honestly I think we'd shred them with this sort of firepower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZU-23-2 . The issue is, they never fight directly. They'd have us fighting each other.

You are underestimating dragons.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #18 on: <03-28-13/2331:41> »
You're also forgetting that Dragons can spend edge in all the normal ways, as well. The only (and I do mean ONLY) reason Aztlan got Sirrurg in the fix he was in was due to the fact that they used magic to turn his abilities back on himself. They hurt Sirrurg, but they couldn't finish him without that ritual. For what happens otherwise when a great dragon takes on a national military, see Aden's actions in Tehran and Ghostwalker's actions in Denver during the year of the Comet. Conventional weapons might wound a great dragon, but they aren't enough to kill it.
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RHat

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« Reply #19 on: <03-28-13/2333:34> »
You're also forgetting that Dragons can spend edge in all the normal ways, as well. The only (and I do mean ONLY) reason Aztlan got Sirrurg in the fix he was in was due to the fact that they used magic to turn his abilities back on himself. They hurt Sirrurg, but they couldn't finish him without that ritual. For what happens otherwise when a great dragon takes on a national military, see Aden's actions in Tehran and Ghostwalker's actions in Denver during the year of the Comet. Conventional weapons might wound a great dragon, but they aren't enough to kill it.

And given their hardened armour, let's emphasize "might".
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DamienHollow

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« Reply #20 on: <03-29-13/0003:13> »
I suppose that if this conversation is going to go anywhere constructive we need to break out WAR! and MRSI with Motor shells. The moment you tell me something is unkillable there is nothing i want more than to kill it. If the self destruct modification on a car  can kill one, there are other ways that will work just as well.

Mirikon

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« Reply #21 on: <03-29-13/0013:00> »
I suppose that if this conversation is going to go anywhere constructive we need to break out WAR! and MRSI with Motor shells. The moment you tell me something is unkillable there is nothing i want more than to kill it. If the self destruct modification on a car  can kill one, there are other ways that will work just as well.
Damien, that wasn't the self destruct function on the car that killed Dunkelzhan. It was a nuke, contained within a barrier Dunkelzhan himself created just before detonating it, and even then it only happened because that was Dunkelzhan's way of killing himself to power a magical artifact to keep the Azzies from ushering in a Scourge the likes of which hadn't been seen since the Fourth World.

And yes, I may be downplaying that a bit.
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #22 on: <03-29-13/0027:13> »
The big reason militaries around the world didn't go after the dragons when they first appeared was, most likely, due to all the WTF feelings everyone was experiencing.  Not to mention all the chaos that was happening simultaneously.  No one wanted to start something that could easily escalate into a strategic nuclear exchange (hint: NO ONE wins one of those).

The big 'D' was quick to assert to everyone that "Hey, we're all just folks around here" to everyone.  To "humanize" the dragons (so to speak) and provide everyone with some context with what was happening.  This made a lot of friends in the mundane world, friends which the dragons needed.  By the time all the weirdness got sorted out, dragons were a part of life (unusual, to be sure, but part of the world we live in).  The dragons, of course, took advantage of this time to settle in and figure out the new world they awoke into.

So now, 60 or so years later, everyone is used to dragons being around.  And the wizwurms now have the resources and allies they need to be serious trouble if someone should choose to try to off one.  As said earlier, the status is now quo.
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DamienHollow

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« Reply #23 on: <03-29-13/0049:09> »
Okay, I don't know where we exactly draw the line between game mechanics and reality, but the car bomb in the text invokes the Chunky Salsa Rule. Also, no one here has yet to mention the big weakness for dragons in fluff... nanites.

Mithlas

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« Reply #24 on: <03-29-13/0059:58> »
The big reason militaries around the world didn't go after the dragons when they first appeared was, most likely, due to all the WTF feelings everyone was experiencing.  Not to mention all the chaos that was happening simultaneously.  No one wanted to start something that could easily escalate into a strategic nuclear exchange.
And the fact that they weren't viewed as necessarily hostile on first appearance. Ryumyo was a curiosity heralding the beginning of a new age. Now if he came in breathing fire, then great dragons would probably be hiding in camouflaged mountain enclaves because it would've started a precedent of "dragon appears, everybody drops what they were doing to band together and kill it".

And unless I misremember, weren't nanites part of one of the anti-dragon weapons in one of the books?

RHat

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« Reply #25 on: <03-29-13/0112:48> »
Okay, I don't know where we exactly draw the line between game mechanics and reality, but the car bomb in the text invokes the Chunky Salsa Rule. Also, no one here has yet to mention the big weakness for dragons in fluff... nanites.

Try Chunky Salsa with a nuke.  And how do you figure nanites are such an effective method?
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DamienHollow

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« Reply #26 on: <03-29-13/0126:16> »
The Clutch of Dragons, Page 128 under Tools of the Opposition, "Butch" states that they can't even benefit from beneficial nanites due to it sending their immune system into overdrive. Aztech is exploiting this to develop anti-dragon weaponry. Am I the only one who has this book? Six people have drawn blanks when i mention something out of it.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #27 on: <03-29-13/0137:33> »
Try Chunky Salsa with a nuke.

Good luck finding a space strong enough to contain the blast that is also big enough for the draconic target. Even if you find such a location, good luck luring the big nasty in there.
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RHat

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« Reply #28 on: <03-29-13/0140:40> »
Try Chunky Salsa with a nuke.

Good luck finding a space strong enough to contain the blast that is also big enough for the draconic target. Even if you find such a location, good luck luring the big nasty in there.

In Dunk's case, I think it was that he put up a very powerful barrier.
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Carmody

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« Reply #29 on: <03-29-13/0604:39> »
Try Chunky Salsa with a nuke.

Good luck finding a space strong enough to contain the blast that is also big enough for the draconic target. Even if you find such a location, good luck luring the big nasty in there.

In Dunk's case, I think it was that he put up a very powerful barrier.
I guess so, which also means that they can build such a powerful barrier to protect themselves from such nukes... Maybe not without preparation however.
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