[brasso]

Ok, so by SR5 RAW, reagents set the limit of spells cast

However, p. 188, FA, reagents can be used for "additional effects". I'm going to stick to raw reagents here to keep it simple!

Raw reagents (standard from SR5), can be used to also raise the limit by 1 for any magic test

So if I'm casting a Force 4 spell, does this now mean I can use 5 drams of reagents to raise the limit to 9? Instead of spending 9 reagents to set the limit? If so, this sounds like a rules change, rather than enhancement.

Also, does this mean that each reagent I use, can only do one thing (set the limit, raise the limit, or even reduce drain)? Or could I use one refined reagent to increase the limit by 5, and reduce the drain by 2?

Also, it says that the number of additional effects cannot exceed my magic rating, eg. 6. So would this mean that I can use 6 refined reagents to reduce drain?

Obviously I think it's down to the wording (as it often is in SR books).

[Jack_Spade]

Nice find.
Yes, it sounds like this is an option to raise the limit for less reagent cost.

And yes, I think you have to decide for what you are using any given reagent.

And also yes, that new limit to (MAG) reagents probably means just that (as always the less than clear rules language gives room for interpretation)

[Kiirnodel]

Here is the full quote from FA setting up these new rules. I have added underlining, italics, and bold for some emphasis.

Below is a list of additional effects that reagents may be used for beyond those listed in {i}SR5{/i} and {i}Street Grimoire{/i}. The total amount of bonus effects may not exceed the user's Magic rating. Effects from a Radical reagent are not cumulative with effects from the Refined version of that same reagent.

Additional effects beyond those listed in SR5 and Street Grimoire. This tells me that it is not a rules change, but a rules addition; it doesn't replace the default rules for reagents but is another use in addition to the standard rules.
So this tells me that in addition to using Reagents to set the limit, you can also use reagents to just raise the limit. The balance factor is the limitation set on these new effects. The old use of reagents doesn't have a limit, this new one does.

Total amount of bonus effects. If we assume that each bullet point can be classified as an "effect" then this line is also fairly simple.
Assuming that you can use several drams of reagents to gain an effect multiple times (and that it is cumulative with itself), then you are essentially limited to being able to raise the limit with reagents up to a bonus of your Magic rating.

I would definitely say that each effect that you want would require another dram of reagents. So no, you don't get all the listed effects with just one dram. Each dram can do an effect (pick one).


There is a possibility that the Raw reagents effects are just supposed to be reiterations of the effects that reagents can already accomplish as stated in the Core Rulebook (and Street Grimoire). In which case, i would recommend just ignoring the new ones listed and using the existing rules.

[SunRunner]

Looking it over I think you mostly have it right Kiirondel. I dont think they are restating what you can do with raw reagents but giving you a new option since the basic rules on SR316 state how you spend reagents to set limits when casting a spell as the limit is the number of reagents spent instead of force. As you stated this has no limit so I can spend 50 drams to set a limit of 50 even when casting a force 1 spell if for some reason I wanted to. As an option I could instead chose to spend say 3 reagents to increase the limit of my force 3 spell to a limit of 6 but i can only do this or any of the other options up to my Magic. So if I have a magic of 3 I would only be able to increase my limit by 3. I think the last one listed of reduce ritual drain by one is a the standard drek show of editing as it makes no sense, since the lead up is that these rule are in addition to the existing rules and this effect is already listed in the offering step of standard rituals as presented in SR5. The only other thing I can think of and again this would go back to Drek editing and what not is they are "POSSIBLY" giving you an option at the end of the ritual to spend more reagents with a magic limit to reduce drain at the end so you can and stave off a hose moment when the GM looks at you and says yeah it was force 6 ritual and I rolled 12 hits so congrats resist 24 Drain, as normally you have to pony up reagents to reduce drain in the offering step before any dice are rolled. Please note this is my "REACHING" for a logical explanation other then Drek editing / rules writing.

[north]

You guys haven't even thought about what these new rules do for enchanting new foci, have you?  😈

[SunRunner]

Ohh I have, just the drain reduction options alone are good stuff, suddenly your not taking your live in your hands when your making that mono whip weapon focus.

[north]

Don't forget the removing the limit from (I forget i dont have my books on me) reagents.  You can use a force 1 formula, spend 1 day making it and roll yes dice to make it yes powerful.