Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Black on <01-28-13/2328:00>
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Okay... round 2.
So this thread is for posting thoughts, speculations and in the case for those in the know... hints and teasers! (<-- Including any Greens, artwork etc)
Sprawl Gangers is an upcoming minature game for Shadowrun which will have you taking on the role of a street gang, with the ability to build and develop your gang (though how.. not too sure yet ;) )
I think it sounds similar to necromunda, a game I really liked. Rumour has it will be influenced by Battletech (which makes perfect sense given its the same company), but how? Not sure yet.
My personal thoughts are that Minature Kickstarters do very well, and these minatures will be made by CoolMiniOrNot who just completed the two of the most successful Kickstarters ever (almost $1 Million in funding each!) so I would hope to see a very successful Kickstarter for Sprawl Gangers... if this idea was picked up :P
So what are your, on-topic, thoughts?
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I'm thinking I bought the BattleTech Box Set just a little too early... :'(
I'll certainly be interested in seeing how the rules work out, that's for sure!
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CoolMiniorNot website... pretty awesome!!!!!!!!!
http://www.coolminiornot.com/ (http://www.coolminiornot.com/)
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I am kind of hoping that it is not going to be hex-based. It would be nice if it was done in such a way that I could use
the terrain for other miniature games at my FLGS, instead of it being yet another board game that will get the miniature
gamers looking down on it because it is using hexes.
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That said, it is pretty popular. Those clicky game people use grid maps for their games, and the most god-awful maps, yet at our local conventions, those folk completely outnumber the miniatures people a good 4 or 5 to 1.
There's something to be said for ease of play.
The Mercs setup is nice. Each unit has a card that doubles as a ruler for movement, complete with little indents for the miniature.
(http://www.tabletophell.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/card2.png)
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I'm really hoping its not clicky based. I'd want miniatures I can build and paint.
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Combat dial is owned by WizKids, I can't see CGL paying a license to use the mechanic.
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I'm really hoping its not clicky based. I'd want miniatures I can build and paint.
Pre-painted is not something to be avoided. In fact, I think that all of them should be pre-constructed and painted. It does not have to be "clicky" like the old Mage Knight to be such.
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I like the pre-painted pathfinder minis. I have never played and I am unlikely to ever play pathfinder, but I still collect the minis.
That said, coolornot minis tend to be unpainted and I suspect that there is more of a market for unpainted because people like to customise etc
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http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/01/soliciting-for-shadowrun-miniatures-game-playtesters/
Click on the link for details on how to apply.
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Indeed! Now just to see if I can find the time to commit to the group to support the playtest.
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I need to beat my GM to get in on this.
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I need to beat my GM to get in on this.
I have already sent my application. I am hoping that they will be fairly easy going on who they put in. I would love to
let my group's peculiar brand of stressing the rules until we hit edge cases to contribute.
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Seeing as the majority (if not all ) of cool mini or not are modeling enthusiasts it will almost definately be a build and paint set. I will see if I can pester some people
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http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/01/soliciting-for-shadowrun-miniatures-game-playtesters/
Click on the link for details on how to apply.
You are indeed a saint! Many thanks for posting this. I have a team of four+ interested, just need to put in my application. :)
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Pre-painted is not something to be avoided. In fact, I think that all of them should be pre-constructed and painted. It does not have to be "clicky" like the old Mage Knight to be such.
To be honest, I hate prepainted. I hate the pathfinder ones. I prefer the metals. Clicky or prepainted wont see my money. I enjoy building and painting. The metakl reaper pathfinder minis are amazing.
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Pre-painted is not something to be avoided. In fact, I think that all of them should be pre-constructed and painted. It does not have to be "clicky" like the old Mage Knight to be such.
To be honest, I hate prepainted. I hate the pathfinder ones. I prefer the metals. Clicky or prepainted wont see my money. I enjoy building and painting. The metakl reaper pathfinder minis are amazing.
That's a quick way to garner disinterest across the brand.
"Buy our product, but the only way it won't look like shit is if you've been doing miniatures for years, or have gobs of natural talent. Average Shadowrun player? Fuck you. The mini guys would rather customize then let you purchase a product that looks good out of the box. "
Shadowrun is an RPG first, and TPTB are aware that many, if not most of their sales of Crossfire are going to come from their core customers.
What effect exporting the mini production to another company will have? I'm not sure. If they were just doing standard metal minis, they'd likely have gone with Iron Wind Metals again. Somethings up. I'm hoping we'll get our wish with out-of-the-box-usable minis.
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What effect exporting the mini production to another company will have? I'm not sure. If they were just doing standard metal minis, they'd likely have gone with Iron Wind Metals again. Somethings up. I'm hoping we'll get our wish with out-of-the-box-usable minis.
What effect?
Pathfinder's export to reaper seems to be doing great. You ship mimiature production to folks that under stand miniature productuion. Reaper tends to be at the top of the heap for general miniature use. Iron winds is ok, but I wouldnt rate them as better then Reaper. GW is great for plastics, but their miniatrues are WAY overpriced and stay away from the finecast stuff.
That's a quick way to garner disinterest across the brand.
"Buy our product, but the only way it won't look like shit is if you've been doing miniatures for years, or have gobs of natural talent. Average Shadowrun player? Fuck you. The mini guys would rather customize then let you purchase a product that looks good out of the box. "
Not really. Having seen some stuff that, in your words "looks great out of the box" looks like something I buy my kid in the dollar section. No its not always great right out of the box. Thats also a quick way to garner disinterest.
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That's a quick way to garner disinterest across the brand.
"Buy our product, but the only way it won't look like shit is if you've been doing miniatures for years, or have gobs of natural talent. Average Shadowrun player? Fuck you. The mini guys would rather customize then let you purchase a product that looks good out of the box. "
Not really. Having seen some stuff that, in your words "looks great out of the box" looks like something I buy my kid in the dollar section. No its not always great right out of the box. Thats also a quick way to garner disinterest.
They look better than what "paint your own" do when you try to do it yourself and don't have either those 'years of experience' or 'gobs of natural talent'.
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They look better than what "paint your own" do when you try to do it yourself and don't have either those 'years of experience' or 'gobs of natural talent'.
I can tell you've never wargamed or seen miniatures painted. No, their not even after that in many cases.
There are also services that do that, ones I use that I really dont have time anymore.
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They look better than what "paint your own" do when you try to do it yourself and don't have either those 'years of experience' or 'gobs of natural talent'.
I can tell you've never wargamed or seen miniatures painted. No, their not even after that in many cases.
There are also services that do that, ones I use that I really dont have time anymore.
I have a couple times, and the people who've done it a while or have a lot of talent do have some cool looking pieces, but if you're just starting you have to either have a lot of the 'natural talent' or blow even more money to get 'em looking decent. (Unless you're lucky enough to get a really good deal on ones that someone else already painted on Ebay or something.)
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I never really understood the binary thinking that most people have with this sort of thing.
Is it not possible that the "Core" will come with prepaints for those of us (like me and apparently A4BG) that have quite literally ZERO artistic talent when it comes to painting things, and then have 4-6 metal minis for painting as well? And additional packs for the enthusiasts?
I mean honestly, I don't know why someone in this business wouldn't give the gamers the best of both worlds, especially for a new game.
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I mean honestly, I don't know why someone in this business wouldn't give the gamers the best of both worlds, especially for a new game.
Licensing.
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All in all, they'll probably do better with sales with pre-painted. It will open the new game up to a wider variety of potential fans. Unpainted will pretty much restrict it to those who already have hundreds to thousands of dollars sunk into other minis games.
I will however admit that I would prefer metal over plastic. Metal being more durable, and I'd feel that I got a better deal for my money than with plastic.
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Not really. Having seen some stuff that, in your words "looks great out of the box" looks like something I buy my kid in the dollar section.
Anecdotal.
AT-43 out of the box
(http://www.grafika.cytadela.pl/sklep/at43/atkar03.jpg)
(http://www.chuck-a-con.net/AT43KingBuggy.jpg)
Battletech out of the box and after several attempted paintjobs and supergluings (Courtesy of ScrapyardArmory.com)
(http://www.scrapyardarmory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/battletech-003.jpg)
(http://www.scrapyardarmory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/battletech-010.jpg)
(http://www.scrapyardarmory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/battletech-004.jpg)
Prepainted, all the way, every day.
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I mean honestly, I don't know why someone in this business wouldn't give the gamers the best of both worlds, especially for a new game.
Licensing.
Pretty much that. Even Pathfinder miniatures, the prepainted and metal miniatures are done seperately- reaper for metals, wizkids for prepainted.
@ wildcard, I've owned those miniatures. The pictures do not align with what comes out of the box. I've owned several of those miniatures and they dont match to the picture when you get them home and out of the box. Therians especially.
Oh and Anecdotal on your own set of stuff(see how easy its to do that?), Just because you cant doesnt mean one cant. You probably werent taught well. Couple colors and then dipping makes it very easy. Especially when you have to do 20,30,40 of the same model.
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I have a couple times, and the people who've done it a while or have a lot of talent do have some cool looking pieces, but if you're just starting you have to either have a lot of the 'natural talent' or blow even more money to get 'em looking decent. (Unless you're lucky enough to get a really good deal on ones that someone else already painted on Ebay or something.)
Dipping.
Its a simple process that even I, with no talent can do. Trust me, I doubt your a worse painter then me, and I suck. But its prime, base coat, couple colors then you dip in wood stain.
Step by step:
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/43744/the-dip-method-a-step-by-step-guide-to-painting-mi
EDIT: better link I think
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/687047/painting-plastic-minis-a-how-to-guide-for-beginn
*shrug* All I know is that my old DM had cases and cases of prepainted minis, more then one could count. Still turned to me for miniatures. Metal ones generally hold up better and look better long term.
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As I said, I would prefer metal for durability, but just because YOU can do something doesn't mean "anyone can do it", and the fact of the matter remains that pre-painted will open up a wider customer base for sales. Not to mention that despite you're BS drivel, pre-painted look perfectly fine.
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As I said, I would prefer metal for durability, but just because YOU can do something doesn't mean "anyone can do it", and the fact of the matter remains that pre-painted will open up a wider customer base for sales. Not to mention that despite you're BS drivel, pre-painted look perfectly fine.
Hey, a but harsh. Also, I'm not sure pre painted is a bigger market. Seems to me hat, locally, warhammer, horde, war machine ect are more popular. Pathfinder pre painted sell ok, but only to pathfinder players (a myself looking for elemenatls miniatures). I am a terrible painter, I destroy brushes quickly and my glue keeps drying up. But I'm still painting imperial guard minis for my shadowrun game. And strangely enough, the more I paint, the more I enjoy it.
Also, people will want to customize their mini and thats a big draw for some people. I would love this produ to bring in some more players from the other wargames. It has a lot of potential there. I would certainly play it at my lfgs and run demos just for this.
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As I said, I would prefer metal for durability, but just because YOU can do something doesn't mean "anyone can do it", and the fact of the matter remains that pre-painted will open up a wider customer base for sales. Not to mention that despite you're BS drivel, pre-painted look perfectly fine.
Hey, a but harsh. Also, I'm not sure pre painted is a bigger market. Seems to me hat, locally, warhammer, horde, war machine ect are more popular. Pathfinder pre painted sell ok, but only to pathfinder players (a myself looking for elemenatls miniatures). I am a terrible painter, I destroy brushes quickly and my glue keeps drying up. But I'm still painting imperial guard minis for my shadowrun game. And strangely enough, the more I paint, the more I enjoy it.
Also, people will want to customize their mini and thats a big draw for some people. I would love this produ to bring in some more players from the other wargames. It has a lot of potential there. I would certainly play it at my lfgs and run demos just for this.
Bigger market is relative since the minis aren't a huge market anyway.
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@ wildcard, I've owned those miniatures. The pictures do not align with what comes out of the box. I've owned several of those miniatures and they dont match to the picture when you get them home and out of the box. Therians especially.
There are unboxing videos on youtube of at-43 product. They look similar to pictures I've seen of the same minis.
Oh and Anecdotal on your own set of stuff(see how easy its to do that?)
10 points for attempting to verb the word Anecdotal. Hats off to you sir.
Just because you cant doesnt mean one cant. You probably werent taught well. Couple colors and then dipping makes it very easy. Especially when you have to do 20,30,40 of the same model.
Truestory. Out of that box of garbage, the owner of ScrapyardArmory made me this beauty.
(http://www.scrapyardarmory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/warhammer01.jpg)
He tried teaching me. I still suck. It's also a pain in the ass. I get no pleasure from painting or assembling.
Going with unfinished (here referring to miniatures that come in parts) and unpainted miniatures subsets an already small market.
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http://www.google.com.au/search?q=zombicide&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=S4YJUa6mDqSKmQWdmIDoCA&biw=768&bih=928&sei=f4YJUZDrO4qKkwWA2YFQ
Zombiecide minis, I think also made by coolminiornot. The survivors look good... I am very optimistic on this product. I also loved their relic knights stuff.
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Has there been any prototype pictures released yet?
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They look better than what "paint your own" do when you try to do it yourself and don't have either those 'years of experience' or 'gobs of natural talent'.
Or have a twitchy hand and a shattered elbow. :'(
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@ wildcard, I've owned those miniatures. The pictures do not align with what comes out of the box. I've owned several of those miniatures and they dont match to the picture when you get them home and out of the box. Therians especially.
There are unboxing videos on youtube of at-43 product. They look similar to pictures I've seen of the same minis.
Oh and Anecdotal on your own set of stuff(see how easy its to do that?)
10 points for attempting to verb the word Anecdotal. Hats off to you sir.
Just because you cant doesnt mean one cant. You probably werent taught well. Couple colors and then dipping makes it very easy. Especially when you have to do 20,30,40 of the same model.
Truestory. Out of that box of garbage, the owner of ScrapyardArmory made me this beauty.
(http://www.scrapyardarmory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/warhammer01.jpg)
He tried teaching me. I still suck. It's also a pain in the ass. I get no pleasure from painting or assembling.
Going with unfinished (here referring to miniatures that come in parts) and unpainted miniatures subsets an already small market.
I'm beginning to suspect that he's one of the elitist wargamers* who thinks that you're "n00b" if you don't assemble and paint yourself (thankfully I haven't run into any of that sort here).
* Whether he actually is or not, I don't know, and I honestly hope I'm wrong, but that's the impression I'm getting.
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Has there been any prototype pictures released yet?
Not that I've found. Maybe too early for that. The Facebook shadowrun page appears to be the best source of info on sprawl Ganges so far.
https://www.facebook.com/shadowrun
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They look better than what "paint your own" do when you try to do it yourself and don't have either those 'years of experience' or 'gobs of natural talent'.
Or have a twitchy hand and a shattered elbow. :'(
Ok, do we have any volunteers to paint canray's gang for him? I understand that he really likes PInk Mohawk style..
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As has been noted, the Rackham AT-43 miniatures on the photos are studio painted, while the ones from the retail boxes were painted in China. However, the At-43 stuff still looked very good, although the Operation Damocles box set had a lower quality than the normal unit boxes.
On the whole pre-painted vs. bare plastic discussion, a compromise could be the way Fantasy Flight Games has handled their DUST game. Normal box set is primed in green for U.S. or Grey for German troops, so the miniatures look o.k. on the table but are also ready to paint straight away. For people with a little more cash, the box set was available fully painted.
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So the game, I think, comes with two gangs. If they made each gang a seperate solid colour, that would alleviate the issue somewhat. Hmm... Agree.
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There are unboxing videos on youtube of at-43 product. They look similar to pictures I've seen of the same minis.
Dont care. I've played AT43(along with a host of other games some that made it GW, Warmahordes, infinity and some that didnt-VOR, confrontation(now those were minis I really really miss)) and minis dont align with the pictures I've seen.
Truestory. Out of that box of garbage, the owner of ScrapyardArmory made me this beauty.
(http://www.scrapyardarmory.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/warhammer01.jpg)
He tried teaching me. I still suck. It's also a pain in the ass. I get no pleasure from painting or assembling.
Going with unfinished (here referring to miniatures that come in parts) and unpainted miniatures subsets an already small market.
Oh I believe it. I may not paint wellm but I can make anything with minis and a knife, drill and such. I LOVE that part of gaming. I get no pleasure myself from painting, but I love building stuff.
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I'm beginning to suspect that he's one of the elitist wargamers* who thinks that you're "n00b" if you don't assemble and paint yourself (thankfully I haven't run into any of that sort here).
* Whether he actually is or not, I don't know, and I honestly hope I'm wrong, but that's the impression I'm getting.
You would be wrong. Well, partly wrong. I dont blame people for not wanting to. But throwing your hands up in the air and saying "its impossible" bothers me. What happens if someone said that about playing shadowrun ruleset? Pick any edition.
I enjoy building models. I HATE painting them. I'm better then I was 20 years ago, but not nearly anywhere near my visionn wants it to be. But I can build almost anything given time, but thats becuase thats the part I love most. Prepainted robs me of that.
*shrug* I want what I want from a RPG/Gaming experience. Unpainted miniatures is part of that. Just like in another thread I want honset to god dead tree books. There might be some great PDF items out there, but when its only PDF, its not what I want. If you like PDF's or prepainted minis, more power to you. But while I wont demand that folks do it MY way, I'll also vote with my wallet. PDF only or Prepainted keeps that money in my wallet.
There's a reason Paizo gets MORE of my money then Catalyst game labs. Paizo gives me what I want more of what I'm looking for in a game then Catalyst does. And I say that with a shelf full of shadowrun products.
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There are unboxing videos on youtube of at-43 product. They look similar to pictures I've seen of the same minis.
Dont care. I've played AT43(along with a host of other games some that made it GW, Warmahordes, infinity and some that didnt-VOR, confrontation(now those were minis I really really miss)) and minis dont align with the pictures I've seen.
Thank you for your irrelevant apathy.
The point is we disagree, yet I'm providing proof of my assertion. Caring's got nothing to do with it.
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The prepaints look don't look much worse than the studio painted models, I doubt one could notice any difference in a YT video. The shading might be more subtle, more color vraiations and details picked out, but from one feet away, it would look just the same.
Bottom line:
Decent Prepaints for decent prices are possible.
As for Sprawl Gangers, I'd like to see them go the Sedition Wars path with nicely detailed models that are multipart but easy to put together.
I hope the different Weapons are realized the same way the old Space Crusade game did it, with little holes on the body and pegs on the arms and weapons.
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Thank you for your irrelevant apathy.
The point is we disagree, yet I'm providing proof of my assertion. Caring's got nothing to do with it.
You did nothing of the sort in proving anything. You didnt even know the studio AT43 models were touched up painted by professionals when you posted those pictures.
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Guys, how about you pretty, pretty, please drop the bickering and check the attitudes? Let's not go two for two on snark getting Sprawl Ganger threads locked, huh?
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Guys, how about you pretty, pretty, please drop the bickering and check the attitudes? Let's not go two for two on snark getting Sprawl Ganger threads locked, huh?
I'll ask a little less nicely. Drop the arguments and move on. Everyone's said their opinion.
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Ok, do we have any volunteers to paint canray's gang for him? I understand that he really likes PInk Mohawk style..
Oh please, I highly doubt it. I mean, I can't even PLAY a game of Shadowrun with help from the forums...
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The prepaints look don't look much worse than the studio painted models, I doubt one could notice any difference in a YT video. The shading might be more subtle, more color vraiations and details picked out, but from one feet away, it would look just the same.
Bottom line:
Decent Prepaints for decent prices are possible.
As for Sprawl Gangers, I'd like to see them go the Sedition Wars path with nicely detailed models that are multipart but easy to put together.
I hope the different Weapons are realized the same way the old Space Crusade game did it, with little holes on the body and pegs on the arms and weapons.
I think making them customisable will be a big part of these minis. If the idea is to run campaigns where your gang grows etc, you will have 'characters' who will change... and change gear etc.
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I think making them customisable will be a big part of these minis. If the idea is to run campaigns where your gang grows etc, you will have 'characters' who will change... and change gear etc.
The duels figures had room for that. I'm not sure how a smaller product could handle it out-of-the-box though. Magnets maybe? Kung Fu grip?
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I think making them customisable will be a big part of these minis. If the idea is to run campaigns where your gang grows etc, you will have 'characters' who will change... and change gear etc.
The duels figures had room for that. I'm not sure how a smaller product could handle it out-of-the-box though. Magnets maybe? Kung Fu grip?
Most people who are making minis that they want to change out weapons, etc, use rare earth magnets. Since these minis are coming from CMON, I would expect that they will be made the same way as other CMON minis. Anyone know if CMON does plastic, Resin, plastic-resin, or metal? I know that their shop is not all just their stuff, so I am not sure.
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Anyone know if CMON does plastic, Resin, plastic-resin, or metal? I know that their shop is not all just their stuff, so I am not sure.
The three games they have on Kickstarter have plastic and resin.
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I just sent in my application.
Am I the only one who hopes Lone Star is a playable faction?
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Am I the only one who hopes Lone Star is a playable faction?
I'd say you're sick...but one of my current characters has a day job working for Hard Corps. ;)
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I would like to see Lone Star/Knight Errant as an expansion. Maybe an anti-gang task force? Or corporate security with drones etc... or Go Gang rules... or.... so much room to expand and develop this concept. Maybe even a toxic gang? or a Shedim gang? or a Bug Gang! oh yeah!
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Ahh Hard Corps, the place where guys who are too emotionally stunted for the 'Star wind up. Hard Corps, we make the 'Star look like Mothers of Metahumans. Hard Corps, if you can swing a stun baton, you're in! Hard Corps, if your dog didn't wanna get shot he wouldn't have strayed across the property line.
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That could be neat.
Sprawl Gangers as the normal unit, say a group of 5.
Or
Lone Star Patrol of 4 men
Or
2 Man Shadowrun Team.
Now that I think about it, Vehicles would be an easy and awesome addition.
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In whatever format we get the figs I would just like to see a good selection of meta-humans. Orks, Trolls, and Dwarves especially. Nothing against elves, they are just too easy to convert.
William
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I didn't know snooty was available in oilpaint.
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I think making them customisable will be a big part of these minis. If the idea is to run campaigns where your gang grows etc, you will have 'characters' who will change... and change gear etc.
The duels figures had room for that. I'm not sure how a smaller product could handle it out-of-the-box though. Magnets maybe? Kung Fu grip?
Check out the Kingdom Death KS...pretty sure a number of the adventurer minis are designed as modular for weapons and armor. While also distributed by CMON, not sure how the actual mini design and sculpting is being handled.
I would love to have multi-part sprues that let me customize each mini.
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A great example of multi-part minis:Dreamforge Eisenkern Stormtroopers (http://www.thewarstore.com/product82106.html)
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I think making them customisable will be a big part of these minis. If the idea is to run campaigns where your gang grows etc, you will have 'characters' who will change... and change gear etc.
The duels figures had room for that. I'm not sure how a smaller product could handle it out-of-the-box though. Magnets maybe? Kung Fu grip?
Most people who are making minis that they want to change out weapons, etc, use rare earth magnets. Since these minis are coming from CMON, I would expect that they will be made the same way as other CMON minis. Anyone know if CMON does plastic, Resin, plastic-resin, or metal? I know that their shop is not all just their stuff, so I am not sure.
They use all three to great effect. The needs of the game and the cost of the models dictate what is used. If I had to guess based on the scale they are going to use I would say it's likely going to be resin.
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Hey! How many folks here got the e-mail yesterday?
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Not me!
Aw.
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I got in. I'm proud.
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Hey! How many folks here got the e-mail yesterday?
Of course, if that is the "You have been selected to playtest" e-mail....what makes people think anyone who
got in would admit it? I would assume it would be like the MWO Beta: cannot admit you are even in it. Even
if it explicitly gave them permission to admit they were playtesters, I would still think it would be a bad idea,
as I am sure people would hound them trying to get any information, and no-one wants that when something
should still be in flux. I mean, from twitter, Randall is completely changing the initiative system at this very moment.
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Hey! How many folks here got the e-mail yesterday?
Of course, if that is the "You have been selected to playtest" e-mail....what makes people think anyone who
got in would admit it? I would assume it would be like the MWO Beta: cannot admit you are even in it. Even
if it explicitly gave them permission to admit they were playtesters, I would still think it would be a bad idea,
as I am sure people would hound them trying to get any information, and no-one wants that when something
should still be in flux. I mean, from twitter, Randall is completely changing the initiative system at this very moment.
Could explain why this thread has begun so quiet.... *tumble weed rolls on by...* Almost toooo quiet!
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Fixing the lack of line breaks.
...what makes people think anyone who got in would admit it?...
Page 3.
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Got accepted...very pleased. Unfortunately, won't be able to say much more than that. ;)
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Well, I for one am disappointed by their decision to use Barbie-scale figures. I mean, sure, it means we can use Barbie Dream Houses and Barbie Corvettes for terrain, and it would look really cool set up at a convention... But I think they misread fans' complaints about the scale of Wizkids' Shadowrun Duels and went the wrong way with it!
;)
Bull
P.S. I still want 3 3/4", GI Joe style action figures for Shadowrun.
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This should be a really cool game. I love playing miniature games, as well as painting and collecting your army. Hopefully I can have an army of the Red Hot Nukes go gang, bunch of dwarves swarming the enemy on motorbikes with baseball caps, and baseball bats. Too many good gangs to pick from though.
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Well, I for one am disappointed by their decision to use Barbie-scale figures. I mean, sure, it means we can use Barbie Dream Houses and Barbie Corvettes for terrain, and it would look really cool set up at a convention... But I think they misread fans' complaints about the scale of Wizkids' Shadowrun Duels and went the wrong way with it!
;)
Bull
P.S. I still want 3 3/4", GI Joe style action figures for Shadowrun.
Not like you would be giving any accurate info, Bull..we cannot trust anything we see someone posting, because, frankly, this *IS* Shadowrun. Who could we ever trust, right?
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My P.S. was completely accurate. Should I ever win the lottery, I will have an entire line of custom 3 3/4" Shadowrun figures created. I collect GI Joe stuff anyway, and nothing would fill me with more joy than to have a Kane action figure sitting in a Rattler doing strafing runs on Clockwork driving an AWE Striker.
Hell, I already got my Cobra Vipers into Shadowrun. Have you SEEN the new Knight Errant armor? ;)
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Hell, I already got my Cobra Vipers into Shadowrun. Have you SEEN the new Knight Errant armor? ;)
Which book is that in? I do not remember seeing it....
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Hell, I already got my Cobra Vipers into Shadowrun. Have you SEEN the new Knight Errant armor? ;)
Which book is that in? I do not remember seeing it....
Shadowrun Missions 04-07: Burn and on from there.
I helped. ;D
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Cover of SRM 04-11 Election Day:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/bulldrek/Cover-ElectionDay_vpcorbella_101.jpg)
:)
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Looks good Bull, and KE is looking very initimadating :)
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Cover of SRM 04-11 Election Day:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/bulldrek/Cover-ElectionDay_vpcorbella_101.jpg)
:)
Man. I just want to punch the shit out of that elf bitch holding the no sign. She reminds me of Janeane Garofalo.
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Watch your language, please.
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Sorry. She reminds me of J- G-.
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Cover of SRM 04-11 Election Day:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y156/bulldrek/Cover-ElectionDay_vpcorbella_101.jpg)
:)
The guy next to the no sign looks like a guy who is just wearing fake horns, no place where the horns would actually grow out of the skull :D
But what do the green scarves mean (if they mean anything)? I admit I did not really follow the Ork Underground storyline...
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It did actually remind me of Saint Patrick's Day mixed with an election mixed with Halloween.
It was a good flavour. ;D
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The guy next to the no sign looks like a guy who is just wearing fake horns, no place where the horns would actually grow out of the skull :D
But what do the green scarves mean (if they mean anything)? I admit I did not really follow the Ork Underground storyline...
They don't really mean anything specific, so far as I know. Not certain why he used those like that, but they're kind of neat. I sort of assume they're a gang symbol of some kind.
As for the horns, I imagine that they're just one of the many Troll horn variations. Something that grows up from the middle of the skull and than curves around and up. Similar to the Cape Buffalo:
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/2duikers/2duikers1104/2duikers110400172/9273794-cape-buffalo.jpg)
:)
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But what do the green scarves mean (if they mean anything)? I admit I did not really follow the Ork Underground storyline...
The Green scarves are the "ribbons" in support of prop 23.
Look at the pic, everything in favor is in green, everything opposed is in blue.
Also, my group got in. Signing my third NDA for Cata tomorrow.
I can't wait for this game to come out, I want to find a way to use my VOR mini's as a gang! Hopefully it will have something like that.
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As for the horns, I imagine that they're just one of the many Troll horn variations. Something that grows up from the middle of the skull and than curves around and up. Similar to the Cape Buffalo:
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/2duikers/2duikers1104/2duikers110400172/9273794-cape-buffalo.jpg
:)
That image illustrates exactly what the problem is: The horns grow out of two points in the skull, there is not one continuous horn going over the full skull and curving up on both sides. Only on a costume prop it makes sense to have one continuous horn.
I mean artwork of trolls fluctuates between "straight out of Mordor" and "just a tall guy with horns" (and has always done), but as far as I remember at least that aspect is consistent ;)
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Fine, new official explanation!
John Samson has an embarrassaing secret. He suffers from an ailment that one out of every 10,000 trolls suffers from: Cope's Disease. Cope's disease weakens the structure of troll horns, causing them to fall out. Most trolls effected by this are over the age of 40, but John was stricken when he was 18. He was mocked and ridiculed by every trolls he knew, because horns are frequently a source of pride among them. So now John wears Hornpiece for Trolls, an artificial set of horns designed to hide the fact that he has no horns. They look awful, and everyone knows they're fake, but everyone is too polite to say anything. They're the troll equivalent of a toupee.
:)
Now, isn't this supposed to be about the mini's game? :)
Bull
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Now, isn't this supposed to be about the mini's game?
I now want a mini for a troll suffering from Cope's Disease.
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Now, isn't this supposed to be about the mini's game?
I now want a mini for a troll suffering from Cope's Disease.
With a bit of work, it shouldn't be toooooooooo hard. Maybe find a minataurs head, or maybe a beastman from Warhammer... a bit of cutting and glueing and done!
Looking forward to metahuman (particular troll) figures and spirits and maybe, just maybe... some critters?
One of the guys on my team wants to build the Ancients. Me? Halloweeners... heheheheh
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Fine, new official explanation!
You KNOW that this is going into a book now, right?
Because it totally is. :D
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Fine, new official explanation!
You KNOW that this is going into a book now, right?
Because it totally is. :D
SO true. *laughs*
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Fine, new official explanation!
:)
Bull
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! thank you Bull +10 to you for that, And you guys have to have that in there now!!
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Now, isn't this supposed to be about the mini's game? :)
Bull
Those who talk, don't know. Those who know, don't talk.
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Now, isn't this supposed to be about the mini's game? :)
Bull
Those who talk, don't know. Those who know, don't talk.
So true ;)
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Game Designer roos Watson has published a short blip about his involvement in Sprawl Gangers on the Catalyst Game Labs homepage:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/02/sprawl-gangers-designer-diary-1/
Greetings! My name is Ross Watson, and I am a huge fan of Shadowrun. I’ve been playing Shadowrun since its inception in 1989, and I’ve played every edition of the game right from the first. I’ve played Shadowrun when it was an online text-based game (Shadowrun Seattle MUX and Shadowrun Detroit MUX), and now I’m very pleased to say I’m deeply enjoying the opportunity to work on a game set in that universe!
I’ve been a game designer for over 13 years now, and I’ve worked on a ton of games. Much of my experience lies in developing RPGs and miniature games, and it’s great to bring that experience to the table for Sprawl Gangers.
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Yep...quite looking forward to diving into the play test rules... :)
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New design document online:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/02/sprawl-gangers-designer-diary-2/
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New design document online:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/02/sprawl-gangers-designer-diary-2/
It is interesting. I wonder how many playtesters actually grabbed their old Necromunda terrain before even taking a look
at the documents?
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New design document online:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/02/sprawl-gangers-designer-diary-2/
It is interesting. I wonder how many playtesters actually grabbed their old Necromunda terrain before even taking a look
at the documents?
Its a good idea Mara. When I first heard of SprawlGangers I really thought of Necromunda in the Shadowrun Universe. Shame is, even though I really loved the Necromunda battle reports in White Dwarf.. I never bought the game or minitures or terrain.
I really think getting the right terrain is going to be cruical for Sprawlgangers. I hope they look at bringing out some multi-level terrain.
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New design document online:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/02/sprawl-gangers-designer-diary-2/
It is interesting. I wonder how many playtesters actually grabbed their old Necromunda terrain before even taking a look
at the documents?
Lol. Actually that's what we are using.....
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New design document online:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/02/sprawl-gangers-designer-diary-2/
It is interesting. I wonder how many playtesters actually grabbed their old Necromunda terrain before even taking a look
at the documents?
Lol. Actually that's what we are using.....
Same ;D
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The only problem with the old Necromunda terrain - sacrilege, I know - is that it won't really support bikes... and I really hope any game including the Ancients has bikes...
Also, has anyone thought about improvised playtest models yet? I'm thinking: my old Necromunda gang up against some GW Dark Eldar models rebuilt with whatever automatic weapon parts I can find in the bits box...
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Lego... ;D
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Designer diary 3 has been posted:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/03/sprawl-gangers-designer-diary-3/
One of the great things about designing for Sprawl Gangers is that I’m really designing the game that I have wanted to play for decades. Ever since discovering the joy of league- and campaign-based miniature games like Necromunda, Mordheim, and Blood Bowl, I’ve wanted to build my own take on a deep and engaging set of campaign rules.
Sprawl Gangers features a set of robust rules that are ideal for seeing your gang grow and develop over time. Each ganger can develop his own skills and abilities, or he may be distinguished with a particular injury–although, of course, in the cyberpunk future of Shadowrun, many injuries can be solved simply by installing some cyberware!
(continued)
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What size toy cars would one use for 28 mm or 54 mm scale minis(the two most common size mini scales)? I would like to start building up terrain, and it seems like gang-based games should have some burned out, shot-up, or on-blocks cars for terrain.
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Alas matchbox cars are too small. Need something a bit bigger...
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Alas matchbox cars are too small. Need something a bit bigger...
Yes, I know. I was thinking stuff like they used to make in the 80's and early 90's, hence why I was asking for what size. I wish
I still had those toy cars from back then :(
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The only problem with the old Necromunda terrain - sacrilege, I know - is that it won't really support bikes... and I really hope any game including the Ancients has bikes...
Also, has anyone thought about improvised playtest models yet? I'm thinking: my old Necromunda gang up against some GW Dark Eldar models rebuilt with whatever automatic weapon parts I can find in the bits box...
I picked out infinity miniatures and I even use some for me SR games.
here is some motorcyles for you.
http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/kum-motorized-troops/
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I know a collectables store where I can get toys like that with missing parts for cheap. ;D
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An older thread where miniature options/ideas discussed:
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=4096.0 (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=4096.0)
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If they announce that this game will NOT have 28mm miniatures, the internet fandom will EXPLODE :D
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If they announce that this game will NOT have 28mm miniatures, the internet fandom will EXPLODE :D
I will add designing a game with 27mm or 29mm model representation to my bucket list just to pop a few heads.
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28mm is, effectively, a 1/60 scale.
Hunt for model kits in that scale and you'll be set.
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What size toy cars would one use for 28 mm or 54 mm scale minis(the two most common size mini scales)? I would like to start building up terrain, and it seems like gang-based games should have some burned out, shot-up, or on-blocks cars for terrain.
If memory serves correct 125th scale is the closest to 28mm. However terrain and vehicles are not normally true to scale for miniature gaming.
Or I guess 1/60th.
*Edit: Okay did some checking found this on wikipedia and my memory sucks
1:64 scale is a traditional scale for models and miniatures, in which one unit (such as an inch or a centimeter) on the model represents 64 units on the actual object. It is also known as "three-sixteenths scale", since 3/16-inch represents a foot. A man is approximately 1-1/8 inches tall (28 mm) in 1:64 scale. The scale originated by halving the very common 1:32 scale, which was known as "standard size" in some hobbies.
This scale became successful because of its relative size in comparison to other toys, the fact that it is a derivative of 1/16 scale, and because they are easily held by small hands.[1] The 1/64 scale models will generally have less detail than a 1/16 scale models.[1] Moreover, "1/64 coincides with the S scale of model railroading, part of the consideration of why 1/64 became an established size."[1]
Currently, 1:64 scale is most commonly used for automobile and other vehicle models, but it is also a popular scale for model railroads and toy trains, and has been used for ship models, also. In addition, 28mm military and fantasy figures are a popular size for tabletop gaming, and they are sometimes scaled out to 1:64, although opinion on the actual scale of 28mm range from 1:48 to 1:64.
I guess you should look for 1:48 to 1:64 scale or S scale for model railroads
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I can think of almost a dozen decent sources for 28mm cyberpunk figures. What's much harder to find is good urban terrain, and I'd love it if someone could rectify that - even if it's just some neat cars to hide around/steal...
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I'm hoping there's going to be a Mungo figure. ;D
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I can think of almost a dozen decent sources for 28mm cyberpunk figures. What's much harder to find is good urban terrain, and I'd love it if someone could rectify that - even if it's just some neat cars to hide around/steal...
Well http://www.pinecanyonscalemodels.com/s-scalekits.htm (http://www.pinecanyonscalemodels.com/s-scalekits.htm) has some terrain. I would sugest looking for S scale terrain or 1/64
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You could always use paper terrain, there's quite some options, especially form World Works Games (Streets of Titan or Streets of Legend for street tiles, and the whole Mayhem range for props and buildings).
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just want to chime in myself about painted or not. I have Leviathans and while they are painted out of the box, it is a very basic paint scheme and one that you can and a lot of people do paint over for a custom look. Personally, I have neither the time nor the money to paint minis. The basic paint job looks pretty good, I think, so I leave them be. I think they *might* just go for that: a basic paint job which you could enhance or paint over yourself. Just an idea and one that I think would cater to both the painted and unpainted camps.
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@Linkdeath - while I appreciate your comments, I'm hoping they're unpainted and, in a perfect world, multi-part plastic which would allow for a lot more customization.
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@Linkdeath - while I appreciate your comments, I'm hoping they're unpainted and, in a perfect world, multi-part plastic which would allow for a lot more customization.
Your perfect world sounds like my nightmare. I traded an old laptop for having about two companies of 'Mechs assembled and painted. Minis that I probably had for a good ten years (in come cases). No, the perfect world would be having both options.
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@Linkdeath - while I appreciate your comments, I'm hoping they're unpainted and, in a perfect world, multi-part plastic which would allow for a lot more customization.
Your perfect world sounds like my nightmare. I traded an old laptop for having about two companies of 'Mechs assembled and painted. Minis that I probably had for a good ten years (in come cases). No, the perfect world would be having both options.
This. The people who are good at painting and assembling can always paint over existing schemes. The rest of humanity doesn't need to get the short end of the stick.
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Except trying to do both wont happen. They are two very different production systems.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
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@Linkdeath - while I appreciate your comments, I'm hoping they're unpainted and, in a perfect world, multi-part plastic which would allow for a lot more customization.
With the amount that the figures for miniatures games cost, they really should all be ready-to-use right out of the box.
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Except trying to do both wont happen. They are two very different production systems.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
If you're good at chess, then you should be required to make all the pieces with a wooden lathe?
Sounds like shit logic.
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Painted, ready-to-use minis make for a more inclusive game, meaning that more people can actually buy and play it. Making the game more exclusive because of a snobbish idea that only people who have the time and skill to assemble and paint minis deserve to play the game is bad business.
Hell, the majority of the reason I never even thought about picking up things like Warhammer 40K is because I don't have the time, energy, skill, or storage space to assemble, paint, and keep tons of minis, in addition to actually playing the fragging game, but all I need for D&D is a bag o' dice, my character sheet, and the books on my hard drive.
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Different strokes for different folks. As interested as I an in the game, I think I'm even more interested in the idea of using the minis to custom build runners. However, I do appreciate that this is my opinion and that there are a lot of variables that need to be considered in the business model. Regarding pre-paint...not as big a deal for me, though I'd rather see that money go into the sculpts and mini designs (thinking of recent games like Zombicide and Sedition Wars).
While I haven't played Monsters in the Sky, I think they did a great job with the minis. As noted previously, they "repaint" very nicely and seem to build up quickly and easily.
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My GUESS, as a mini gamer, is that we're looking at metal minis, with an outside chance at prepainted rubber (Well, 'plastic') ala HeroClix.
Metal minis are the cheapest to make, where you get a mold that can spin up metal into a frame, creating standard miniatures. IIRC, a mold that can make twelve minis a spin runs arond $2000, withe the number of minis in it based off of size.
Let's say that you start with six factions, each of which fllls up a mold, and then a 'mercenary' faction for the seventh. That'd be about a $14,000 investment, plus the rulebooks, art, advertising, and so on. Not a *huge* number, but enough to make people like me go, "Well, that's what I make in a year. Yipes."
Plastic molds need a much different machine. Vacuum molding of plastic is trickier... the molds last far, far longer than metal ones (After about a thousand spins, metal molds will start losing some detail. By ten thousand, you want to replace it. I *think* those are the right numbers. Plastic can generate around a million presses.) but are also more expensive. Again, IIRC, each plastic mold is $20,000 (Tho I have heard as low as $10,000 for the Clix style) ... that $14,000 start-up is closer to $140,000 with plastic.
So, plastic is better for the long term, but if you don't know if it'll be a success or not, you go metal.
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I'd imagine that the miniatures themselves would be more durable as metal as well. If the molds are cheaper (even if they have to be replaced a little more often) and the resultant product is more durable, then it's a no-brainer.
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Except trying to do both wont happen.
I know. I was just making the point that one person's opinion is not shared among everybody.
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Except trying to do both wont happen. They are two very different production systems.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
If you're good at chess, then you should be required to make all the pieces with a wooden lathe?
Sounds like shit logic.
If you want to drive a car you should mine the ore to build it. I can do sophism as well.
Prepainted is a completely different production method compared to unpainted. The costs associated with prepaints is enormous compared to unpainted. Those cost will be passed onto you the consumer.
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Except trying to do both wont happen. They are two very different production systems.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
If you're good at chess, then you should be required to make all the pieces with a wooden lathe?
Sounds like shit logic.
If you want to drive a car you should mine the ore to build it. I can do sophism as well.
Prepainted is a completely different production method compared to unpainted. The costs associated with prepaints is enormous compared to unpainted. Those cost will be passed onto you the consumer.
And yet the most expensive miniatures I've seen are both unpainted and must be assembled oneself.
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My GUESS, as a mini gamer, is that we're looking at metal minis, with an outside chance at prepainted rubber (Well, 'plastic') ala HeroClix.
Metal minis are the cheapest to make, where you get a mold that can spin up metal into a frame, creating standard miniatures. IIRC, a mold that can make twelve minis a spin runs arond $2000, withe the number of minis in it based off of size.
Let's say that you start with six factions, each of which fllls up a mold, and then a 'mercenary' faction for the seventh. That'd be about a $14,000 investment, plus the rulebooks, art, advertising, and so on. Not a *huge* number, but enough to make people like me go, "Well, that's what I make in a year. Yipes."
Plastic molds need a much different machine. Vacuum molding of plastic is trickier... the molds last far, far longer than metal ones (After about a thousand spins, metal molds will start losing some detail. By ten thousand, you want to replace it. I *think* those are the right numbers. Plastic can generate around a million presses.) but are also more expensive. Again, IIRC, each plastic mold is $20,000 (Tho I have heard as low as $10,000 for the Clix style) ... that $14,000 start-up is closer to $140,000 with plastic.
So, plastic is better for the long term, but if you don't know if it'll be a success or not, you go metal.
Not quite.
You're talking well under 100$ for a set of spin molds(to purchase) You can get into the business for under 12k$( Tekcast.com)
The largest cost is paying the sculpters, but that is changing now as well. Computer scultping(like Zbrush) is making huge inroads into the system now and with places like safeway or moddler doing the 3d printing...
Go to youtube and search for zbrush speed sculpts, a number of vids will pop. It's a bold new future in miniature gaming.
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Except trying to do both wont happen. They are two very different production systems.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
If you're good at chess, then you should be required to make all the pieces with a wooden lathe?
Sounds like shit logic.
If you want to drive a car you should mine the ore to build it. I can do sophism as well.
Prepainted is a completely different production method compared to unpainted. The costs associated with prepaints is enormous compared to unpainted. Those cost will be passed onto you the consumer.
And yet the most expensive miniatures I've seen are both unpainted and must be assembled oneself.
Your point?
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Except trying to do both wont happen. They are two very different production systems.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
If you're good at chess, then you should be required to make all the pieces with a wooden lathe?
Sounds like shit logic.
If you want to drive a car you should mine the ore to build it. I can do sophism as well.
Prepainted is a completely different production method compared to unpainted. The costs associated with prepaints is enormous compared to unpainted. Those cost will be passed onto you the consumer.
And yet the most expensive miniatures I've seen are both unpainted and must be assembled oneself.
Your point?
That it pretty well disproves your argument that pre-painted increases the cost at the store when the most expensive are unpainted and not assembled.
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Fair point, but generally, the quality and detail of a multi-part (or not) unpainted sculpt (metal, resin or plastic) is far better than that of a pre-paint. IMHO
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Except trying to do both wont happen. They are two very different production systems.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
If you're good at chess, then you should be required to make all the pieces with a wooden lathe?
Sounds like shit logic.
If you want to drive a car you should mine the ore to build it.
Right. Your logic is shit no matter how you break it down.
Reductio ad absurdum was the correct term for it by the way, slick.
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That it pretty well disproves your argument that pre-painted increases the cost at the store when the most expensive are unpainted and not assembled.
You didn't disprove anything. You give no context.
Prepaints have been more expensive. There is a reason none have ever lasted.
Perhaps you want to point towards heroclix or clickytech? Those would be collectibles.
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Except trying to do both wont happen. They are two very different production systems.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
If you're good at chess, then you should be required to make all the pieces with a wooden lathe?
Sounds like shit logic.
If you want to drive a car you should mine the ore to build it.
Right. Your logic is shit no matter how you break it down.
Reductio ad absurdum was the correct term for it by the way, slick.
Perhaps you should look up the term sophism.
Perhaps you should understand what "I am of the opinion" means.
The only way to give prepaints a chance to succeed will be to make them collectibles like heroclix. If they do that it will die. Shadowrun does not have the fanbase that Marvel or DC does.
They will not be able to give any kind of justice to customization with prepaints.
So you have a couple options. You can get your instant gratification that prepaints gives you. Rip open that packaging and your instantly playing, but with no options. Or you have options, but are required to atleast put the models together.
They have said this is like Necromunda, has a campaign system and all of that jazz. That means weapon upgrades, most likely cyberware, armor upgrades. All of that will not be able to be done with prepaints.
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Children, play nice.
...
WHEN THE HELL DID I TURN INTO BULL?
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@Linkdeath - while I appreciate your comments, I'm hoping they're unpainted and, in a perfect world, multi-part plastic which would allow for a lot more customization.
Your perfect world sounds like my nightmare. I traded an old laptop for having about two companies of 'Mechs assembled and painted. Minis that I probably had for a good ten years (in come cases). No, the perfect world would be having both options.
This. The people who are good at painting and assembling can always paint over existing schemes. The rest of humanity doesn't need to get the short end of the stick.
This. I couldn't agree more. Heck, I'll glue pieces together, just please don't ask me to paint them! I have neither the time nor the money for it!
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Children, play nice.
...
WHEN THE HELL DID I TURN INTO BULL?
Welcome to the other side of the mirror, Alice. :D
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Welcome to the other side of the mirror, Alice. :D
Oh, I've been back and forth through the mirror many times for years.
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This. I couldn't agree more. Heck, I'll glue pieces together, just please don't ask me to paint them! I have neither the time nor the money for it!
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a doodoohead, but I can't follow this.
It appears you are saying f they are prepainted you have the time and money, if they are not prepainted you don't have the time nor the money.
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This. I couldn't agree more. Heck, I'll glue pieces together, just please don't ask me to paint them! I have neither the time nor the money for it!
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a doodoohead, but I can't follow this.
It appears you are saying f they are prepainted you have the time and money, if they are not prepainted you don't have the time nor the money.
That's the problem with Warhammer. You have to pay a ludicrous price for miniatures that aren't even assembled, let alone painted, and then spend even more money buying paints and brushes and whatnot.
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See, Sprawl Gangers, from everything we have seen posted, is a Miniatures Wargame. It is not a MIniatures Board Game like Battletech and Leviathans(at least..I really hope it is like what I define as a wargame). That means it is part of The Hobby. The Hobby is the full range of miniatures work, from assembling, pinning, and modifiying all the way up to paints and playing. I would expect that you would want to make sure all your gangers are easily identifiable, so you don't want them pre-painted and pre-assembled if you buy, say, 3 Male Human Eye Fivers with Predator V Pistol, and they all look the same. And, then, say you have something happen that let's you give one of those Eye Fivers, say, an Ingram Smartgun or an HVAR, and you need to change the ganger. Do you really want to have to go buy a new model? or just be able to strip the hand, do a quick hack and swap conversion, and have it WYSIWYG, like I would expect in any Miniature Wargame.
One thing I must say about the idea that it is more costly to make the molds for non-metal as it is metal. There are a number of companies that are making use of spin-casting with special, hybrid formulas of resin and plastic. These produce much more detailed castings, and cost comparable to metal, but, except for GW's formula, are much more stable in price. The most expensive minis I know of, of course, are the Forge World Titans for Warhammer 40K Apocalypse Scale games, which are solid resin(not plastic-resin), and that you have to buy them in parts.
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Agree with the need for personalisation. if your playing a game, like necromunda, which is small unit tactics, you will want to personalise your minis. We arnt talking major armies here.
So factors in favour of the mini's being non-painted:
- cheaper to set up - particularly when mini's are not your core product and may or may not become the next big thing.
- ability to customise the minis
- potentially appeals to the existing minature wargame market, allowing catalyst to bring in new blood. The 40k market is nothing to sneeze at. They can maintain a monthly glossy magaizine, dedicated shopfronts in every city, their own conventions etc. Even if Shadowrun tapped a small proportion, it would bring in a lot of additional revenue.
- wargames have more dedicated, long-term (and thus continued new revenue) market. Wargamers like buying additional minis, starting new armies, look forward to expansions etc
- Wargamers are more likely to make/invest in terrain etc.
Factors in favour of the mini's being painted
- easier for non-wargamers to pick up the game quickly and play
- more board game / occassional play appeal. Dont need to be dedicated to the game to buy it and play. Eg Frag, Zombicide etc.
- if collectable, appeals to an existing market - but this market has been fickle in the past (eg mageknight)
- Expensive to set up, but may not be has expensive long to term to maintain... providing you have a long term.
- terrain will need to come with core set, or be available at limited additional cost. The market being appealed to here doesn't want to paint etc, also unlikely to want to make their own terrain.
My thoughts are that its likely going to be unpainted minis. Doesn't bother be if they are. But I know its not everyone's cup of tea. No use argueing the pros and cons here too much, or getting upset before we even know. Best to wait and see.
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- wargames have more dedicated, long-term (and thus continued new revenue) market. Wargamers like buying additional minis, starting new armies, look forward to expansions etc
- Wargamers are more likely to make/invest in terrain etc.
Yeah...this is one thing I really think people need to think about:
Sprawl Gangers is a miniature wargame. It is not going to appeal to the RPGer who has no interesting in Miniatures or Wargaming.
If the RPGer is getting the minis, they are likely to represent their own character, and thus, should be more flexible.
If the RPGer is, like me, also a wargamer, they are going to want to make their miniatures unique to avoid confusion on the
battlefield.
On the other hand, they are using CMON(Cool Mini or Not!) to do their minis. This means they want the miniatures to be quality, where they will appeal to cross-over purchases for other games, or people buying the minis for the joy of painting the miniatures(Like I have been known to).
These are the people that I believe Sprawl Gangers is intended to appeal to. From there, they get their first glimpses at a large world, and it can be a method of bringing people over to Shadowrun the RPG, just like the card game will probably have things that help draw people over to the RPG.
In otherwords, I do not think Sprawl Gangers is intended to solely be something to get RPGers to branch out into wargaming, but to get Wargamers to try Shadowrun.
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As for prepainted plastic...
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6269/reviewshadowrun1mo5tm8.jpg
.. that could be arranged.
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Hey Wak, what are we looking at there?
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Hey Wak, what are we looking at there?
According to Mitch at Harebrained Schemes, Dolls. :P
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Hey Wak, what are we looking at there?
Shadowrun Duels. a 1:12 scale (6 inches average) action figure game that Wizkids put out.
Bull
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Hey Wak, what are we looking at there?
According to Mitch at Harebrained Schemes, Dolls. :P
Yeah, but Jordan's rebuttal was that dolls are fuzzy and soft?!?! Jordan, when was the last time you saw a soft, fuzzy Barbie doll? He HAS to come up with a better argument than that!
But I'll agree they are dolls...in the same way that G.I. Joes and Transformers are dolls.
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Hey Wak, what are we looking at there?
Teh Shadowrun Duels figures from a few years back. I never got to get the whole set, sadly, but I've got most.
The game had issues, but the figures are *awesome*.
(And, yeah, they're around 6" tall for teh humans, so closer to dolls than action figures.)
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If they're not at least one single piece or already assembled, there won't be a penny of my money going into these miniatures.
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Taht's a shame... a bottle of superglue ain't much.
(Again, odds are that most will be one piece, or one piece with a separate arm or a glue-on weapon, but there'll likely be a couple that are multi-part, like Orks, Trolls, or anyone with a heavy weapon.)
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Taht's a shame... a bottle of superglue ain't much.
(Again, odds are that most will be one piece, or one piece with a separate arm or a glue-on weapon, but there'll likely be a couple that are multi-part, like Orks, Trolls, or anyone with a heavy weapon.)
I might have considered taking a chance if a certain poster hadn't made his elitist comments on the matter, like the one below.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
Basically, that crud (a reminder of just how bad the 'war gamer' type can get) pretty much clinched my staying away from that product.
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Understandable, and I'll confess that while I've put minis-to-table for thirty years, I'm still a godawful painter... it's teh one part of the hobby that I hate. I enjoy building, and I LOVE playing, but painting, yearg.
And also note that I could be completely wrong ... we might get fully-painted plastics out of this. I doubt it, but, been wrong before and will be again, so. :)
Regardless, I hope you at least give the minis an eyeballing. Even if you don't play Sprawl Gangers the game, you might use the minis for the Shadowrun tabletop game. .
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Understandable, and I'll confess that while I've put minis-to-table for thirty years, I'm still a godawful painter... it's teh one part of the hobby that I hate. I enjoy building, and I LOVE playing, but painting, yearg.
And also note that I could be completely wrong ... we might get fully-painted plastics out of this. I doubt it, but, been wrong before and will be again, so. :)
Regardless, I hope you at least give the minis an eyeballing. Even if you don't play Sprawl Gangers the game, you might use the minis for the Shadowrun tabletop game. .
An approximation for the character would likely be the only reason I'd even consider messing with Sprawl Gangers now. It's mainly the attitude of a lot of miniatures war game players (evidenced by the comment I quoted in the previous post) that will keep me away from it.
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Understandable, and I'll confess that while I've put minis-to-table for thirty years, I'm still a godawful painter... it's teh one part of the hobby that I hate. I enjoy building, and I LOVE playing, but painting, yearg.
And also note that I could be completely wrong ... we might get fully-painted plastics out of this. I doubt it, but, been wrong before and will be again, so. :)
Regardless, I hope you at least give the minis an eyeballing. Even if you don't play Sprawl Gangers the game, you might use the minis for the Shadowrun tabletop game. .
An approximation for the character would likely be the only reason I'd even consider messing with Sprawl Gangers now. It's mainly the attitude of a lot of miniatures war game players (evidenced by the comment I quoted in the previous post) that will keep me away from it.
Great.
If the internet keeps up at this pace, no one will buy anything, ever.
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Great.
If the internet keeps up at this pace, no one will buy anything, ever.
But, but, but... I just came out with a new book (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/112345/Shadowrun%3A-Sim-Dreams-%26-Nightmares)!
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Hey Wak, what are we looking at there?
Teh Shadowrun Duels figures from a few years back. I never got to get the whole set, sadly, but I've got most.
The game had issues, but the figures are *awesome*.
(And, yeah, they're around 6" tall for teh humans, so closer to dolls than action figures.)
Ahhhh... Yes, I've got four or five of them still in their packaging sitting in the bottom of a cupboard. Really dont know what to do with them. They belong with a kid. Their action figures, not minis. The scale is far to big.
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Understandable, and I'll confess that while I've put minis-to-table for thirty years, I'm still a godawful painter... it's teh one part of the hobby that I hate. I enjoy building, and I LOVE playing, but painting, yearg.
And also note that I could be completely wrong ... we might get fully-painted plastics out of this. I doubt it, but, been wrong before and will be again, so. :)
Regardless, I hope you at least give the minis an eyeballing. Even if you don't play Sprawl Gangers the game, you might use the minis for the Shadowrun tabletop game. .
An approximation for the character would likely be the only reason I'd even consider messing with Sprawl Gangers now. It's mainly the attitude of a lot of miniatures war game players (evidenced by the comment I quoted in the previous post) that will keep me away from it.
Bigs, you should never let someone else's attitude stop you from doing something. In most cases your going o be paying with people you know, so you don't need to worry about what other people think.
If they do come out unpainted, grab two cans of undercoat spray paint, and just colour the two sides different colors.
Regardless, mini painting doesn't have to be art, it just has o be 'enough' and 'enough' is whatever you say it is.
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Here's a crazy thought: If people do things you don't like (such as playing with unpainted miniatures of insisting that you play with painted miniatures), do not socialize (play the game ) with them.
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Depending on how they end up packaging the product, I could be in for a whole lot, or almost nothing.
If they ship out a box per gang, unpainted, unassembled, I doubt I'll be buying any of those.
If they ship out a box per gang, painted, assembled, I'll probably buy all of them.
If they ship out a single package setup, much like Battletech, I'll probably 3 or 4 of the ones that closest represent characters I play in the RPG, and have them painted and assembled.
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Here's a crazy thought: If people do things you don't like (such as playing with unpainted miniatures of insisting that you play with painted miniatures), do not socialize (play the game ) with them.
Now, I think one of the problems some people have is that they do not see The Hobby the same way as others do. Some people just want to play. They are the Casual Hobbyists. The could care less about painting the miniatures or assembling them. They just want to sit down and play. After them, you have the Common Hobbyists. They just want their minis to look presentable when they play. They do the basic painting, maybe try some advanced painting techniques if they feel up to it, but, for the most part, you might see them putting down minis that are half-painted, or just primered. Next come the Elite Hobbyists. They are constantly trying to push their painting capabilities. The idea of putting a mini on the table that is just primered is anathema to them, and the worst you will see is a half-painted mini, and that half painted mini is probably going to be at a point where some people would be saying "Wow..that's already play ready!" and the Hobbyist will tell you exactly what is missing from it. And, of course, they will often buy minis just to paint them, with no intention of playing the game the mini comes from. Finally, you have the Hard Core Hobbyist. They mod everything, free hand designs, never put a mini that is not fully painted on the table, use advanced painting techniques on everything, do complex mods and paint jobs for painting competitions, and might even get paid to paint minis.
Pre-painted/Pre-assembled minis appeal to the Casual Hobbyist and to some degree to the Common Hobbyist, while un-painted, unassembled minis appeal to the Common Hobbyist on up. The questions comes down to: Which groups of Hobbyists are we appealing to? Which method will be the most cost effective? and Is CGL going to be staying primarily books while letting CMON work out like they currently use IWM for BattleTech or is CGL attempting to break out into the manufacture of minis?
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Taht's a shame... a bottle of superglue ain't much.
(Again, odds are that most will be one piece, or one piece with a separate arm or a glue-on weapon, but there'll likely be a couple that are multi-part, like Orks, Trolls, or anyone with a heavy weapon.)
I might have considered taking a chance if a certain poster hadn't made his elitist comments on the matter, like the one below.
I have always been of the opinion that if you have time to play the game then you have time to paint for the game.
Basically, that crud (a reminder of just how bad the 'war gamer' type can get) pretty much clinched my staying away from that product.
Now that is some screwed up logic there dude. "I" have to bow to your whims? I'm not even allowed to have an opinion on the matter?
Let's look at reality here for a minute. What prepainted games are still around? Yet, you want CGL to follow this method?
Here's a crazy thought: If people do things you don't like (such as playing with unpainted miniatures of insisting that you play with painted miniatures), do not socialize (play the game ) with them.
Now, I think one of the problems some people have is that they do not see The Hobby the same way as others do. Some people just want to play. They are the Casual Hobbyists. The could care less about painting the miniatures or assembling them. They just want to sit down and play. After them, you have the Common Hobbyists. They just want their minis to look presentable when they play. They do the basic painting, maybe try some advanced painting techniques if they feel up to it, but, for the most part, you might see them putting down minis that are half-painted, or just primered. Next come the Elite Hobbyists. They are constantly trying to push their painting capabilities. The idea of putting a mini on the table that is just primered is anathema to them, and the worst you will see is a half-painted mini, and that half painted mini is probably going to be at a point where some people would be saying "Wow..that's already play ready!" and the Hobbyist will tell you exactly what is missing from it. And, of course, they will often buy minis just to paint them, with no intention of playing the game the mini comes from. Finally, you have the Hard Core Hobbyist. They mod everything, free hand designs, never put a mini that is not fully painted on the table, use advanced painting techniques on everything, do complex mods and paint jobs for painting competitions, and might even get paid to paint minis.
Pre-painted/Pre-assembled minis appeal to the Casual Hobbyist and to some degree to the Common Hobbyist, while un-painted, unassembled minis appeal to the Common Hobbyist on up. The questions comes down to: Which groups of Hobbyists are we appealing to? Which method will be the most cost effective? and Is CGL going to be staying primarily books while letting CMON work out like they currently use IWM for BattleTech or is CGL attempting to break out into the manufacture of minis?
It is the billion dollar question.
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Billion dollar... :o ...likely not. Though I'm sure the lads at CGL would LOVE that kind of a problem ;D
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million dollar question then.
But Mara has it the question itself right. Which market?
Are we after existing shadowrunner players who may or may not pick it up, or are we targeting the larger wargamer market, a market which likes skirmish games like necromunda (though perhaps not enough for the game to still exist...) I think the market of existing non-wargamer shadowrun players who may pick up a pre-painted mini game... is limited. But the market for existing wargammers looking to pick up something new... well, its larger at least.
But its a wait and see for now.
One thing is for sure, the answer won't please everyone. But we should groan and moan if it doesn't (at least not too much). The world doesn't revolve around our personal prefences. Catalyst and CMON needs to make the decision based on their strategic direction and the financial bottom line. And I for one, do not begrudge them that decision.
PS: I think I fit it your Common Hobyist category Mara. Which may explain why I have a partially painted army of Imperial Guards and a collection of Pathfinder painted minis sitting together on a shelf in the cupboard...
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I'd put the income closer to $100,000 myself, judging on the responses to assorted miniatures from Kickstarter. A million is rarified air.
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Hahaha, that's awesome. Like the elite hardcore prick market is somehow equal in size to the casual player.
Nooooo, no no no.
The split is this.
The people who won't buy a product that won't look nice
vs.
The pricks who refuse to alter pre-painted and pre-assembled miniatures because they're "above" that.
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Of course, all of this is irrelevant, as the main factor will always be what they think will make the most money, as filtered through business arrangements, agreements, and best intentions.
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Ok, I think we're done here. Drop the Elitism and the insulting tones and attitudes.
Bull
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Ok, I think we're done here. Drop the Elitism and the insulting tones and attitudes.
Bull
I am sorry. I have tried to avoid it.
I will say that my biggest opposition to "pre-painted" has nothing to do with "too good for that."
I have no problem repainting a previously painted mini. The problem is: stripping past the paint.
If it is too thick, repainting the mini is horrible, as you lose so much detail(you can't strip plastic
without ruining the mini). If the paint is too thin, however, the minis look horrible as the paint chips
from the usual wear and tear on minis from packing and unpacking them. Leviathans can get away
with the pre-painting much more then BattleTech or Sprawl Gangers can, as BattleTech's minis, and,
since they are being made by CMON, I will assume Sprawl Ganger's minis, are things where the details
matter. Getting something like faces painted thinly enough that it does not ruin detail is very tricky for
an automated system(CMON is an American based company, to my knowledge, so they can't use masses of
cheaply paid people like in china, so likely would, if they were making pre-painted minis, be using good, old
American Automation).
Honestly, though, I think everyone is in the "I do not want to buy something that won't look nice." The
problem is that not everyone agree on what looks nice. If CMON could make pre-painted minis at a quality
where they do not lose any detail for people like me who like to paint? I would be happy. If they only make
stuff like you can find on the Cool Mini or Not website? Cool, too. If it could be economically done where they
have inexpensive pre-paints of Mage Knight or Hero Clix Quality and high quality, multi-part minis on a par
with the REST of the stuff CMON makes, so there are options for people who don't want to paint verses people
who want to paint? that would be ideal, however I just do not think it can be done.
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It's now a wait and see, Mara.
On topic, but a different subset of discussion..
Which gangs would you like I see in sprawl Gangers?
I want to have a spiked wheel gang...
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On topic, but a different subset of discussion..
Which gangs would you like I see in sprawl Gangers?
I want to have a spiked wheel gang...
Frankly? I want to be able to make my own gang. But, shoot..there are just so many canon gangs. The Spikes
and The Desolation Angels, though, would have to be my top two.
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Cutters, Halloweeners and Ancients have to be in their right? First Nation would also be visually pretty interesting.
As for minis I'm game for some amount of assembly and painting as long as they don't go the "25 Pieces that don't quite fit together and require a drill press and arc welder to assemble" route that BT minis are increasingly heading towards.
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I second the First Nations thing, partly because it would look pretty unique and partly because i'd really like some hi-tech Amerindian models for just about every Shadowrun game I've ever envisaged...
Frankly? I want to be able to make my own gang. But, shoot..there are just so many canon gangs.
If they are going with plastic assembly models my dream is that they'll release some kind of conversion pack with lots of different heads and guns to make it easy to make custom gangs (and also, even better, Shadowrunners for the RPG!)
Certainly any plastic assembly miniatures plan should follow the Mordheim model and fill the sprue with all sorts of weird custom parts. Hairy heads FTW.
(Also: as much as I love my old crappily painted metal gangers, coolest gangs in Necromunda were always the ones lovingly hacked together out of Imperial Guard and Bretonnian plastic figures)
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Rusty Stilettos are another infamous gang, I hope they'll make an appearance.
So is the Troll Gang of Lord Torgo... He would make a great nemesis for the Ancients :)
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But Mara has it the question itself right. Which market?
Agreed. One thing I find strange/interesting, is that we've seen no shots of minis...concepts or otherwise. If launch is Q4, I'm guessing they need to be well underway, if not done, give production and shipping times.
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But Mara has it the question itself right. Which market?
Agreed. One thing I find strange/interesting, is that we've seen no shots of minis...concepts or otherwise. If launch is Q4, I'm guessing they need to be well underway, if not done, give production and shipping times.
Well, they are going through CMON. They are a bit more efficient with the modeling, casting, etc then IWM, mainly because they
are a bit bigger of a company. Since these are also humaniform minis, they have a different sculpting process then 'Mechs, and
they can have one sculptor working on multiple miniatures at once, simply because, as he/she works around the armatures, time
has to be allowed for things to cure while they work. They can get a lot modeled and cast and shipped in a close time frame. Just look at the Bombshell Babes kickstarter production where they were doing their modeling and casting while doing work for other companies.
Yeah, it has not all shipped yet, but that is pretty much a start up company. I imagine CMON will have a lot faster turn around.
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Ok, I think we're done here. Drop the Elitism and the insulting tones and attitudes.
Bull
Agreed. Watch yourselves on this
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If they do come out unpainted, grab two cans of undercoat spray paint, and just colour the two sides different colors.
Regardless, mini painting doesn't have to be art, it just has o be 'enough' and 'enough' is whatever you say it is.
Black, this may be the best suggestion and most helpful thing I've read on this Thread. That's an awesome idea and awesome advice. Thanks!
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Fair points Mara...forgot about CMoN involvement. I guess I just expected we'd have started to see some snapshots of the minis by now...something that CMoN is very good at. However, we still have 6+ months, so issue is moe likely *my* expectations... :-[
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Fair points Mara...forgot about CMoN involvement. I guess I just expected we'd have started to see some snapshots of the minis by now...something that CMoN is very good at. However, we still have 6+ months, so issue is moe likely *my* expectations... :-[
They might be keeping things as tightly under wraps as they can, to avoid some issues seen from other games that preview
things too far in advance.
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*and, in the meantime, another flurry of emails off, full of stat lines and assorted goodies*
Muwahahahahahahahah!
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You tease you.
(Reminds me: I need to get stats together myself! Meep!)
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*and, in the meantime, another flurry of emails off, full of stat lines and assorted goodies*
Muwahahahahahahahah!
Ha! Randall said (on twitter) some of the things he is needing to re-write are for him to work on Monday! Looks like he is getting
some good feedback from the playtesters.
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Fair points Mara...forgot about CMoN involvement. I guess I just expected we'd have started to see some snapshots of the minis by now...something that CMoN is very good at. However, we still have 6+ months, so issue is moe likely *my* expectations... :-[
They might be keeping things as tightly under wraps as they can, to avoid some issues seen from other games that preview
things too far in advance.
But they can't wait too long either. Rick Priestly's Gate of Antares Kickstarter fell victim to that. He got a third of the money asked for by basically saying "Hi, I'm Rick Priestly gimme your monies."
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*and, in the meantime, another flurry of emails off, full of stat lines and assorted goodies*
Muwahahahahahahahah!
Ha! Randall said (on twitter) some of the things he is needing to re-write are for him to work on Monday! Looks like he is getting
some good feedback from the playtesters.
Yeah, from all that I've heard, the volley of artillery-feedback from playtesters was really awesome. I'm not QUITE in the middle of those back-and-forths (I hear about them after the fact, when we roll up our sleeves and scribble out new stuff in response), but I know Ross and Randall are sifting through it all and got a lot of awesome stuff to work with.
So, any playtesters reading this -- keep it up! We love you guys and gals. ;D
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In contrast, I'm not part n parcel of the playtest at all. Anything I talk about here is pure speculation. WHee, freedom! But also, aww, no insider knowledge sadness.
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In contrast, I'm not part n parcel of the playtest at all. Anything I talk about here is pure speculation. WHee, freedom! But also, aww, no insider knowledge sadness.
Yeah. Can you imagine how it must be for the playtesters wanting to talk about the game, but having to restrict themselves only to what is publicly known? Oh..right..you are one of the freelancers, so likely have all sorts of awesome you want to talk about but can't.
That said, I am glad the Playtesters are giving great feedback. I hope that, as the playtest goes on, they also start finding those edge cases that break the game like we see pop up in the BattleTech rules questions forum that end up taking several months for an answer.
Better to find those situations now, during playtesting, then after the game is out, quiaff?
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Absolutely. There's always little things that slip through that make you go, "Wait, why is this this, but this is THIS? That makes no sense!"
Catching those before they sneak out is a good thing.
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Absolutely. There's always little things that slip through that make you go, "Wait, why is this this, but this is THIS? That makes no sense!"
Catching those before they sneak out is a good thing.
Oh..you mean like in the initial release of Total Warfare, how HAG's could target specific location, but no other cluster weapon could?
And it took them, like, almost a year and, I think, about 5 or 6 people asking about it to get it errata'ed?
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Well...this is cool: if Sprawl Gangers is 28mm, I am going to recommend Armorcast's Modern Terrain scenery stuff for it,
found here: http://armorcast.com/store/index.php?cPath=122&osCsid=f0972b135c454f188257af0b2139ec00.
It looks like a good range of scenic bits for your Barrens Wasteland.
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Well...this is cool: if Sprawl Gangers is 28mm, I am going to recommend Armorcast's Modern Terrain scenery stuff for it,
found here: http://armorcast.com/store/index.php?cPath=122&osCsid=f0972b135c454f188257af0b2139ec00.
It looks like a good range of scenic bits for your Barrens Wasteland.
Nice find Mara. I'm liking the burning dumpster and the candy machine :)
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Well...this is cool: if Sprawl Gangers is 28mm, I am going to recommend Armorcast's Modern Terrain scenery stuff for it,
found here: http://armorcast.com/store/index.php?cPath=122&osCsid=f0972b135c454f188257af0b2139ec00.
It looks like a good range of scenic bits for your Barrens Wasteland.
Nice find Mara. I'm liking the burning dumpster and the candy machine :)
I can't take all the credit. Tabletop Gaming News put up the russian sub-compact(which, apparently, is new), and I just wanted
to see what other stuff they had..and I realized that it all looked very useful if Sprawl Gangers ends up being 28mm(most likely,
I admit, given that 28mm is the scale most gaming minis seem to be made at) instead of 54 mm(which often seems to be more the
'aesthetic and painting minis for people who really like to paint').
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Well...this is cool: if Sprawl Gangers is 28mm, I am going to recommend Armorcast's Modern Terrain scenery stuff for it,
found here: http://armorcast.com/store/index.php?cPath=122&osCsid=f0972b135c454f188257af0b2139ec00.
It looks like a good range of scenic bits for your Barrens Wasteland.
"Mungo likz da candis. I pushez da Haxxorz buttun an... An... An... I haz candi!"
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You know, CanRay: sometimes, you really worry me. But t hen I remember you're Canadian...I think all that daylight/night time up there messes with y'all's brain like it does with the Alaskans, but you have more british humour available, so you guys get stranger.
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You know, CanRay: sometimes, you really worry me.
I worry me too. For a lot different reasons.
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Absolutely. There's always little things that slip through that make you go, "Wait, why is this this, but this is THIS? That makes no sense!"
Catching those before they sneak out is a good thing.
Oh..you mean like in the initial release of Total Warfare, how HAG's could target specific location, but no other cluster weapon could?
And it took them, like, almost a year and, I think, about 5 or 6 people asking about it to get it errata'ed?
Ayup. That there are issues with editing and things slipping through's a problem, and not getting errata out to fix things is also a problem. Some fo the freelancers go and post things personally on that front, but there's no official errata guy. It's something that needs to be cranked up on.
As for terrain?
Have you looked at World Works Games stuff?
http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/
Specificly:
http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/index.php?view=catalog&cat_id=1&genre_id=2
The Mayhem: Streets of Legend pack is where it starts. You print out the streets, glue 'em to material (For those on a budget, chop up cereal boxes... teh cardboard works well. For those with a tad more cash, yuse thin foamboard... currently on sale at Wal-Mart for $1.40 a sheet (Science Fair time of the year) ... cut it into 6" squares, or 3" squares, and make modular streets and concrete or grass 'lots' that buildings can go up on.
...
I should make a miniatures walk-through for down the road, shouldn't I?
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Ah, yes, Wakshaani, I have seen that stuff. I am trying to plan for stuff that will get the positive attention at where I play. There it
is populated by alot of the elitists that give some of the people here a bad taste. It is actually a problem growing BattleTech, because
it uses mapboards, not 3D terrain.
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Modular terrain's always a win, in my book. Dedicated tables can look way, WAY more pretty, but once you learn the ins and outs, vets get some nice advantages in terms of knowing distances and certain hiding holes and what not. The stuff can get expensive, tho, so, some improvisation's called for. :)
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The Mayhem: Streets of Legend pack is where it starts. You print out the streets, glue 'em to material (For those on a budget, chop up cereal boxes... teh cardboard works well. For those with a tad more cash, yuse thin foamboard... currently on sale at Wal-Mart for $1.40 a sheet (Science Fair time of the year) ... cut it into 6" squares, or 3" squares, and make modular streets and concrete or grass 'lots' that buildings can go up on.
I would make sure to use a nonshrinking glue, otherwise the pieces can warp.
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I appreciate that this is likely beyond the scope of these minis, but this work make an awesome sculpt:
http://ted4ever.cghub.com/images/ (http://ted4ever.cghub.com/images/)
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New Designer Diary:
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/03/sprawl-gangers-designer-diary-4/
As I mentioned in Sprawl Gangers Designer Diary 2 (and Jason alluded to in his Introductory Box Set blog post), one of my goals right at the start was to try and achieve a thematic cohesion of terms—and rules as appropriate—across all the games we’re publishing during this Year of Shadowrun.
What do I mean by that? Well, here’s a sidebar straight out of the current draft of the rules out for playtest:
Fusing magic with technology in a dystopian near-future setting, Shadowrun’s popularity has crossed into video games, fiction, and more—including this miniatures game—but the living, breathing Sixth World role-playing game setting has always been its heart.
With that in mind, unlike many tabletop miniatures games that describe their models in impersonal rules terms, Sprawl Gangers, through its word choices and terms, attempts to bring every model to life as a flesh and blood part of Awakened Metahumanity. However, at the end of the day, while the terminology may be a little different from what a tabletop miniatures player is used to seeing, the rules will still have you squaring off with your models against your opponent and tossing dice towards victory!
But what does that actually mean for the game? It means, as much as appropriate, game terms and certain elements of mechanics are applied across the games. For example, in Shadowrun Fifth Edition you “make a Test” when trying to accomplish something in the roleplaying game, creating a pool of dice based on Attribute + Skill + modifiers against a Threshold value.
(continued)
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Interview w/ Randall Bills: There’s Gonna’ Be a Rumble Tonight… (http://docbelmont.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/theres-gonna-be-a-rumble-tonight/)
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DB: Are the gangers going to be pre-painted plastic, or will gamers be able to give them their own flourish with unique paint-jobs?
RB: At the current time the plastic miniatures will not be pre-painted.
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Jack-Donaghy-Facepalm.gif)
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Funny...I just spotted that quote and was going to post... ;)
I'm actually wondering if their best bet wouldn't be to launch as a KS...great way to pick up interest and funding expansions/extras. Likely not going to happen this way, but would be interesting.
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Funny...I just spotted that quote and was going to post... ;)
I'm actually wondering if their best bet wouldn't be to launch as a KS...great way to pick up interest and funding expansions/extras. Likely not going to happen this way, but would be interesting.
The Zombicide Season 2 kickstarter just finished and worked the same way. Lots of expansion boxes etc. I still recommend they go with a Kickstarter.
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Yep. ;) CMoN seems to have a knack for launching extremely successful Kickstarters...though it will be interesting to see how the Robotech/Palladium/Ninja Magic one does later this month.
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I'd love to see it go Kickstarter myself.
Then again, I think I'm turning into a Kick Addict. 12 backed in, what, six months?
It all started with Reaper. Double Vampire. Double Vampire?! What was I *thinking*?!
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I'd love to see it go Kickstarter myself.
Then again, I think I'm turning into a Kick Addict. 12 backed in, what, six months?
It all started with Reaper. Double Vampire. Double Vampire?! What was I *thinking*?!
Up to 50, started with Deadlands Noir and the Reaper and Shadowrun Online. Biggest regret? Missed Shadowrun Returns.
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I'd love to see it go Kickstarter myself.
Then again, I think I'm turning into a Kick Addict. 12 backed in, what, six months?
It all started with Reaper. Double Vampire. Double Vampire?! What was I *thinking*?!
What were you thinking? Probably something like "Wow! these minis look cool! I will really enjoy painting them, and giving
some to my friends. No way is it going to get that big......OH MY GODDESS! A single Vampire is HOW MANY MINIATURES?!?!
And they hit HOW MUCH?!?! *faint* "
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I'd love to see it go Kickstarter myself.
Then again, I think I'm turning into a Kick Addict. 12 backed in, what, six months?
It all started with Reaper. Double Vampire. Double Vampire?! What was I *thinking*?!
What were you thinking? Probably something like "Wow! these minis look cool! I will really enjoy painting them, and giving
some to my friends. No way is it going to get that big......OH MY GODDESS! A single Vampire is HOW MANY MINIATURES?!?!
And they hit HOW MUCH?!?! *faint* "
The Reaper kickstarter really was something amazing. I am actually a little bit frightened of all those unpainted minis showing up one day...
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The Reaper kickstarter really was something amazing. I am actually a little bit frightened of all those unpainted minis showing up one day...
Exactly...I can't imagine those who chose multiple Vampire levels... :o I also used it to pick up a solid range of paints...will replace my current "mess o' pots" quite nicely and the new range of brushes I'll be getting this summer (courtesy of the Games & Gears Pro Studios (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554355176/games-and-gears-pro-studio-brushes) Kickstarter should help too ;D
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Well, if we're talking Kickstarter, I guess I should drop a link to Torn Armor.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1471855235/torn-armor
She still has some Clockwork Dragons available for supporters (She had about a hundred yesterday), the CLockworks being supplied by Reaper for those who wanted it during the Bones drop but missed out. The game itself looks neat, and who doesn't want more Spartans, right? :) RIght now, you also get the neat terrain pack from Fat Dragon games (Printable terrain!) if you're getting $35 or more in stuff tossed in for free. Handy for creating some street tiles for your future Sprawl Gangers, if nothing else.
Groovy stuff, and it supports a small-time player who can really use the exposure. I'm in already (I mean, come on, Hoplites for $3 each? Woo!), but I could certainly stand some company.
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These guys have a "Sprawl Gangers Rule Book" for pre-order, with a release date of August/September 2016. While I'm not believing any street date until it's been announced by Catalyst themselves, could it at least mean that the game is still being worked on and may be released eventually?
http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/218971
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I wouldn't.
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What Critias said. The last I recal seeing/hearing was that the rules and such we're in a pretty good state...however, the holdup was the miniatures and we haven't seen anything on that front in a VERY long time. :(
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Which surprises me with all the great minis coming out lately.
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What Critias said. The last I recal seeing/hearing was that the rules and such we're in a pretty good state...however, the holdup was the miniatures and we haven't seen anything on that front in a VERY long time. :(
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/283/235/7e3.jpg)
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Doing a bit thread necromancy^^
Something new about this game ?
Was really looking forward to it.
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Doing a bit thread necromancy^^
Something new about this game ?
Was really looking forward to it.
Negative, Ghost Rider. The pattern is full.
Shame, I was looking forward to having some SR minis to paint.