Author Topic: Increasing accuracy  (Read 697 times)

Officerzan

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #15 on: (16:54:18/09-02-17) »
Wireless on Cyberarm and machine sprites running diagnostics on it is another way to boost melee limits.
That depends on the GM. Most I know, myself included, wouldn't allow that to transfer to weapon accuracy. Filled to the brink with extra cheese.

FST_Gemstar

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #16 on: (19:33:40/09-02-17) »
Wireless on Cyberarm and machine sprites running diagnostics on it is another way to boost melee limits.
That depends on the GM. Most I know, myself included, wouldn't allow that to transfer to weapon accuracy. Filled to the brink with extra cheese.


You try to be a melee technomancer with an always wireless on cyberarm that has mysterious icons floating about it and see how cheesy it feels  ;) 

But seriously... would it be less cheesy for implanted weapons?

To OP: 

A combat knife with a personalized grip has a solid accuracy of 7. Also... if this is for an NPC, just set the accuracy higher and call it a monowire knife or something.
« Last Edit: (20:24:38/09-02-17) by FST_Gemstar »

Officerzan

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #17 on: (07:32:37/09-03-17) »
Does a implanted gun use the arm's physical limit or accuracy? Cheese as in munchkin territory. There are countless threads on this forum that go on for pages arguing about what diagnostics power applies to so i won't delve firther on the topic. Was just wanting OP to be aware that GAs don't always let that fly for some good reasons amd if he does or for his NPC, his players will be able to do the same. Also, I would shy away from handwaiving in unobtainable weapon that is better than every weapon just to make an NPC tougher...

ShadowcatX

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #18 on: (08:04:08/09-03-17) »
Got to crack down on those munchkin melee technomancers. Can't have players playing anything remotely outside of the standard archetype.

FST_Gemstar

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #19 on: (10:54:05/09-03-17) »
Does a implanted gun use the arm's physical limit or accuracy?

many implanted melee weapons physical limits (particularly their arm limits). For an implanted gun, it has its own accuracy. I am totally fine running diagnostics on a smartlinked gun. If it's built into an arm, why would running diagnostics on the arm work different?

Marcus

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #20 on: (11:11:47/09-03-17) »
Wireless on Cyberarm and machine sprites running diagnostics on it is another way to boost melee limits.

If magic can increase accuracy why can't tech magic?

I don't see any issue with this so long as the weapon in question can be wirelessly active

Officerzan

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #21 on: (12:55:11/09-03-17) »
Thus why I won't delve into an off topic discussion in this thread. Search function will show that this comes up often with plenty of discussions on both sides. Some GMs allow it, some GMs don't, and others have houserulings. I'm not arguing that one way is right nor that one way is wrong.

I personally wouldn't allow it because I follow the idea that if it's not what limits the roll, it doesn't affect it. I had a player try claiming his cybereye affected by Diagnostics added to essentially every roll because he is almost always using his eyes when fighting/crafting/driving etc. That's the cheese i avoid by playing it that way.

HOWEVER, that is just ONE way of playing it. Literally the only reason I even said anything was to point out to the OP that they should look into discussions on the matter before implementing it.

I personally have never had an accuracy 6 or 7 melee weapon become an issue anyways. So, with that...
End of Line.

FST_Gemstar

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #22 on: (20:50:06/09-03-17) »
You are right that it is easy to abuse. The lack of clear rulings make it the line difficult though. 

My goto minimum is:
Is it a device?
Is the wireless on?
Does the device offer a wireless dicepool bonus?
Then diagnostics would work when using that device on tasks that provide the wireless dicepool bonus. 

The diagnostics on the arm would not meet this criteria, so a more expansive ruling would be necessary.

Hobbes

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #23 on: (10:21:22/09-04-17) »
And of course, Push the Limits with Edge before the roll lets you ignore all limits. 

SunRunner

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #24 on: (09:52:27/09-05-17) »
Cougar Fine blades, which are combat Knifes have a base accuracy of 7 with custom grip thats Acc 8 which supports a dice pool of 24 before you should statistically start having problems with clipping hits.

As for the general merits of Accuracy in the game it gives them a way to differentiate weapons and make it not just boil down to best DV and -AP combo and no one ever bothers to look at another weapon until a new book drops and a new piece of gear takes the crown as the best DV and -AP combo. In general the paradigm they have is you have the massive hard hitting weapons IE highest base DVs and -APs have lower accuracy stats to reflect their slow and cumbersome nature. While they can make lighter precision weapons that have lower DV and AP stats still attractive because they can have good accuracy scores. Take the Katana (Acc 7 Str+3 -3AP Reach 1) vs Combat Axe (Acc 4 Str+5 -4AP Reach2) as kinda the flag ship examples. If you remove accuracy then the Combat axe wins hands down every time as its hits harder by 2 DV and -1AP and also gives a reach dice or two against anyone not wielding a reach 2 weapon. It gives them different ways to make weapons attractive as well as some general sanity checks, I have been frustrated when a good roll gets accuracy capped just like any other player has in 5th but It also gives people outs cause I have been on the wrong end of a Trog Sec officer with a combat Axe and 20+ dice to use it knowing that I am staring down the shaft of a 20DV -4 AP base damage attack and been insanely happy that I am thinking OMG I only have to get to 5 hits on my defense test to dodge that cause I am paste if it connects.  Their are exceptions to the bid DV and -AP weapons have crap accuracy but they are typically saddled with other draw backs. Sniper Rifles being one of the glaring exceptions to this, But they are typically saddled with SA only fire modes, poor ammo capacity and hard to reload types as well as other problems like loosing Acc rating if your in melee and such. If your accuracy capping your hits on a regular basis its a sign that your dice pool is high enough and you should look to other avenues of character advancement or as Jack suggested start getting fancy and buy some martial arts maneuvers that let you sack dice to get cool and nifty affects on your attacks while your at it.

Shinobi Killfist

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #25 on: (11:34:46/09-05-17) »
That's some of why accuracy exists and why it's hard to just remove it. I do dig the house rule suggestion above to make it 2 hits to increase DV once accuracy is hit. But you could have done that with dice pool penalties and bonuses.  It also does create a smaller bell curve which is I think it's primary purpose. But you know what would do that far better, the GM. Have basic guidelines like street level campaigns 6-10 dice pools, starting runner 9-12 etc. give them campaign guidelines and let the GM and players use it.

Marcus

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #26 on: (14:53:06/09-05-17) »
Limit is cost of doing business in 5th, and honestly I find it comforting. I know when put an accuracy 5 weapon on my wizard, i only need to hit 15 dice before that pool is set. Beyond that I don't think it's actually hard to bypass it, or to find away to work within it. If it becomes a major issue for a player then have them go down a path where limit isn't going to strong factor, Social, Unarmed,  magic packing lots reagents, or just run super edge human, with lucky and dare devil, and 8 edge odds are you can edge ever single roll you care about in any given game. 

I would advice against any house rule that reduced limit impact, there are plenty of options already on how to do it. Ether have fore sight to start with or begin working towards a new path that solves it.

Tassyr

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #27 on: (20:13:30/09-05-17) »
Limit is cost of doing business in 5th, and honestly I find it comforting.

Honestly, I like it too. Less chance of me John-Wayne-ing it against a tank with a pistol and WINNING. As badass as that would be as a Sammie, it's... admittedly OP.
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Shinobi Killfist

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #28 on: (16:17:23/09-06-17) »
Does it do that. I can still take out the heaviest armored ground vehicles with a pistol. Without a cap I might take it out a pass earlier. Ruger apds ammo smart link can get 15dv and 6ap. At best it penalizes specialization so people broaden their characters.


Mirikon

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Re: Increasing accuracy
« Reply #29 on: (17:17:38/09-06-17) »
I agree with Shinobi on this. Except in a few cases, such as with improvised weapon accuracy, or trying to heal low essence characters, limits do little except punish specialization and rolling well, since unless you intentionally do dump stats, it is pretty easy to have a respectable limit for Physical, Mental, and Social, at the least. And few people will be getting dice pools of 3x their limit outside of their specialization. It really only serves to make things flat, like coke that's been open for a day, or force people to rely on Edge more. In 4E, I think I used Edge all of two or three times, across all my characters, and two of those were to reduce crit glitches to glitches. In 5th, the limits are mainly there to make you spend resources to not bother dealing with them, it seems.
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