Author Topic: Alchemist/Sniper Help  (Read 238 times)

Prometheus McCormack

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Alchemist/Sniper Help
« on: (10:05:20/08-22-17) »
I was thinking of putting together an Alchemist/Sniper character using the Priority method.  Anybody have any ideas the best way to go about it?  Suggestions would be helpful and appreciated!

ShadowcatX

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #1 on: (10:52:34/08-22-17) »
The post right before yours is about an alchemist (technically enchanter, though I don't believe a single person has mentioned anything from the skill group except alchemy), though not a sniper. You might look through that thread for some ideas. The general consensus is that alchemy is best as an additional tool, rather than as a main gig, and that alchemy buffs better than it does direct damage.

Snipers, likewise, carry their own problems in Shadowrun. Activity is split between 3 worlds (matrix, astral, and meat space) and if you have limited utility in 1 world (ie. staying outside to snipe rather than going inside) and no utility in the other 2, you might find yourself and your group compromised. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it isn't as easy as grabbing a high powered rifle and sitting somewhere 2 blocks away and thinking you're contributing (because that's just not a good character).

So give us some additional information on what you are wanting. Why alchemy? Why sniping? How does this character contribute when sniping won't help? Also, let us know a bit more about yourself as well, if you don't mind. If this is your first experience with shadowrun or even your first experience with a roleplaying game, a more basic character build might be better, where as if you have been around the block, seen and done it all, and are just wanting an idea for a change of pace, more nuance and less power might be more of what you are after.

Blazrath

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #2 on: (12:21:53/08-22-17) »
So I'll hop over here to help out. Now, while in the other post I'm needing help with getting alchemy together, I've made sniper/long range assassin characters and the Assassin's Primer sets it up right. You need to talk to your group and your gm. Why?

Quote from: Assassin's Primer Pg. 16
CONSULTANTS
As Quietus mentioned, assassins sometimes call in consultants or specialists to help out with jobs, usually to fill a particular skill niche like magic or hacking. The other members of the team could be those consultants, a group of assistants that the assassin regularly calls in to help him. Alternately, the assassin character himself could be the consultant, called in to lend his special skillset to the team for a particular job. Figuring out how to work these arrangements into a regular game might seem like a tall order, but there are a few ways to make them work. With the former arrangement, it might be best to simply suspend disbelief a bit. It might seem unusual for such an arrangement to happen so often, but itís not much more unusual than different Johnsons regularly hiring the same group of runners. With the latter arrangement, it might be a good idea to have the assassinís player play two characters, a regular PC and
the assassin, with the assassin only coming out when his expertise is needed.

ďLET HIM DO HIS THINGĒ
On the other hand, thereís no law saying an assassin has to completely eschew working as part of a team. Such a character can easily be part of a regular shadowrunning group, but given a freer rein because the group realizes he does his part of the job better on his own. In this way, the assassin is both a part of the team and separate from it. He works with them, but when it comes time to execute the battle plan, he goes his own way. This isnít a completely alien idea in Shadowrun. Plenty of team members can be given a similarly long leash simply because their areas of expertise donít make it easy
for others to accompany them. If the team only has one hacker, for example, itís not exactly easy for the other teammates to follow and assist him in the Matrix. Itís the same with teams that only have one mage or shaman who needs to do astral work. Simply treat the assassin the same way youíd treat one of those types of characters.

You, as just a sneaky sniper, are very niche. To be able to set up yourself properly, you need to be a distance away from your team members. While you are able to support your team members with gunfire, you can't give them a literal hand if they go down, unlike the street sam going ham with his sword or the Assault Rifle user. And they have the same capability to use their guns to help out the team. So because of that, you need to let the team know out of game and talk to the gm so you can be worked around. We're not talking about a swiss army knife character here, we are talking about a character with a specific skill of killing from so far away that you are able to get away most of the time before people know to look 2 blocks over.

Now, you want to do create alchemical bullets. You can do this, but if you want to start this from the beginning you have to get the advanced alchemy metamagic and then pick up the quality Alchemical Armorer which you also need Alchemy 4 and Armorer 4. Do this? Cool, you can now make magic bullets with effects and such. Here is the problem. You take the shot and kill your target and now you leave before they can pin point where you took the shot. What will most likely happen to your perfectly pristine bullet? They'll detect magic on it and will try and figure out who it is based on magical aura. Your magical aura. So while you may of physically gotten away with it, you might be tripped up astrally.

Now, if you absolutely had to do this?  Like, I am going to do this no matter what, you need to go Mystic Adept, probably Priority B so you can have magic 4, 7 spells to choose alchemical and maybe 1 you can sling, with the 2 level 4 skills being alchemical(duh) and Spellcasting(maybe Arcana), you'd need attributes as A and I would focus on an Intuition based tradition to have some good coverage on skills with Agility needs to be high, Skills is C and you are going to need to do some creative math cause you have stealth skills and magic and you most likely won't have skills dealing with Impersonation and Lying so you are going to have to go Metal Gear status of just don't let yourself be found.

D I'd put as Meta: Human to pump your magic up to 6 and Edge to 3 so then you can have more power associated with your alchemy and spellslinging capabilities. and leaves resources as E, but you can bump that up with being in debt and such, cause you will need some scratch to get your gear as both are kinda expensive in their own regards, but if you pull off higher assassination plots, I can see making money to pay off everything. You can swap Meta and Resources to help out  with that. I don't know how much karma you can put into Powerpoints in chargen, but these should be more on passive capabilities like increasing attributes or longarms getting powers to build it up more. So then your alchemy is focusing in on damage capabilities and utility spells, stuff to prop up the skills you do not have right now, but will later on.

Remember, raw skill trumps being able to do tricks, cause you never know when your tricks run out or turned off for now.

I will say though, a build like this is going to need a lot of tip toeing around and you may not like the end result cause of how much you have to cut out.

I have more on this, but I feel like this chunk is good for people to read and debate for a while now.
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ShadowcatX

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #3 on: (12:35:01/08-22-17) »
Now, you want to do create alchemical bullets. You can do this, but if you want to start this from the beginning you have to get the advanced alchemy metamagic and then pick up the quality Alchemical Armorer which you also need Alchemy 4 and Armorer 4.

This actually requires double initiation, since you have to pick up fixation before you pick up advanced alchemy. If initiation isn't allowed by your GM at character creation you are going to have a long road before you get to this point.

FST_Gemstar

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #4 on: (20:08:20/08-23-17) »
Simplest way.... (my preferences in bold)

Magic A/B Magician
Attributes B/A
Skills C
Resources D/E
Meta E/D  Human

Attribute spread will let you max and softcap agility, intuition, reaction, and willpower, and get decent str/log/char/body. Magic will be 5 (which is fine for alchemists). Magic B gives you extra starting skills to get going and free alchemical prep slots.  Skills C lets you be a solid alchemist, sniper, and cover your runner basics. Resources D lets you buy/bind a R4 alchemy focus at chargen. 

After 15 karma on edge and binding your focus, you are at -2 karma and 30k of nuyen left to spare. This lets you get up to 23 karma worth of positive qualities (given 25 karma of negatives) and enough money for starter gear. 7 alchemical spells is more than enough. 

There are some aspected routes that can be fun with more 'ware and such, but they start off less ready to play.   

I would also note that "sniper" can be a tough role for a lot of shadowrun groups. A lot of runs happen "inside," don't involve ambushes or picking people off, etc. I often find that instead of taking the Longarms skill and specializing in sniper rifles, taking the Automatics skill and specializing in assault rifles lets you have a lot more flexibility. While assault rifles have less range than sniper rifles, they are definitely long range weapons and lets you be a sniper for most purposes when a run actually calls for one. Additionally, it gives the added flexibility at being skilled at machine pistols and SMGs so that when a run doesn't need a sniper, you still have a lot of options for engagement. If you do prefer Longarms, they still give access to shotguns if you prefer them for closer range fights.

I will also note that I haven't read Forbidden Arcana, which does make some changes and adds new tools to enchanters.
« Last Edit: (21:14:51/08-23-17) by FST_Gemstar »

FST_Gemstar

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #5 on: (20:38:03/08-23-17) »
Wanted to proof my own concept: 

Karma spent: 15 on edge, 12 on focus bonding, 1 on nuyen, 24 on Positive Qualities = -25 needed of Negative Qualities:
Nuyen Remaking: 315 

No Negative Qualities (needs 25 karma worth) , Contacts (12 free points), or Knowledge skills (14 free points) picked - (those are are for you to individualize your character!) 


== Personal Data ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 12/24 (2m/hit)     Swim: 7 (1m/hit)     
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 9
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 7
Nuyen: 315•

== Priorities ==
Metatype: E,0
Attributes: A,4
Special: B,3
Skills: C,2
Resources: D,1

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 6
REA: 5
STR: 2
CHA: 4
INT: 5
LOG: 2
WIL: 5
EDG: 3
MAG: 5

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                10 +1d6
Rigger Initiative:         10 +1d6
Astral Initiative:         10 +3d6
Matrix AR:                 10 +1d6
Matrix Cold:               5 + DP +3d6
Matrix Hot:                5 + DP +4d6
Physical Damage           Track: 10
  Stun Damage           Track: 11

== Limits ==
Physical:                  4
Mental:                    5
   Medkit [+3] (Only for First Aid and Medicine)
Social:                    7
   Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
   Vashon Island: Ace of Cups [+1] (Must be visible)
Astral:                    7

== Active Skills ==
Alchemy (Health)         Base:  6          Pool: 17 (19)
Assensing (Aura Reading) Base:  1          Pool:  6 (8)
Con (Fast Talk)          Base:  2          Pool:  6 (8)
Counterspelling          Base:  4          Pool:  9
Etiquette                Base:  2          Pool:  6
Leadership               Base:  2          Pool:  6
Longarms (Sniper Rifles) Base:  6          Pool: 12 (14)
Negotiation              Base:  2          Pool:  6
Palming (Pilfering)      Base:  1          Pool:  7 (9)
Perception (Visual)      Base:  5          Pool: 11 (13)
Sneaking (Urban)         Base:  4          Pool: 10 (12)

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Qualities ==
Hawk Eye
Jack of All Trades Master of None
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Fire-Bringer)
Perfect Time
Quick Healer
Sharpshooter

== Tradition ==
Chaos Magic, Resist Drain with: WIL + INT (10)

== Spells ==
Armor (Alchemical)       DV: F-2
Deflection (Alchemical)  DV: F-1
Heal (Alchemical)        DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility (Alchemical)DV: F-1
Increase [Attribute] (Alchemical) (INT)DV: F-3
Increase Reflexes (Alchemical)DV: F
Levitate (Alchemical)    DV: F-2

== Lifestyle ==
Low (Low) 1 Months

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                       12
Ballistic Mask                      2
   + Gas Mask
   + Trodes
Vashon Island: Ace of Cups          9

== Weapons ==
Defiance T-250, Short-Barrel
   + Laser Sight
   + Personalized Grip
   + Sling
   Pool: 12   Accuracy: 6   DV: 9P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Survival Knife
   + Concealable Holster
   Pool: 5   Accuracy: 5   DV: 4P   AP: -1   RC: 2
SVD
   + Foregrip
   + Laser Sight
   + Personalized Grip
   + Sling
   Pool: 12 (14)   Accuracy: 8   DV: 10P   AP: -2   RC: 3
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 5   Accuracy: 4   DV: 2S   AP: -   RC: 2

== Commlink ==
MCT Blue Defender (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 1, FWL: 5)
   + Micro-Transceiver
   + Subvocal Mic
   + Sim Module
   + Biomonitor
Meta Link (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 1, FWL: 1)

== Gear: Equipped ==
Alchemical Focus (Bonded Foci) Rating 4
Ammo: APDS (Sniper Rifles) x10
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Shotguns) x20
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Sniper Rifles) x40
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Shotguns) x20
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Sniper Rifles) x20
Fake SIN Rating 4
   + Fake License (Talismonger License) Rating 4
   + Fake License (Weapon License) Rating 4
   + Fake License (Driver's License) Rating 4
Magical Lodge Materials Rating 6
Medkit Rating 3
Reagents, per dram x100
Survival Kit

== Vehicles ==
Dodge Scoot (Scooter)             
   + Improved Economy
   + Sensor Array Rating 1

FST_Gemstar

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #6 on: (20:55:28/08-23-17) »
And another option that uses Automatics that is also a little more viable in close range. 

Karma expenses: 10 on Edge, 12 on focus binding, 4 on skills, 22 on Positive Qualities = at least -23 karma of negative qualities needed.
Nuyen: after 'ware and alchemical focus, 42k. Basically the same gear as above- trade out weapons/ammo for assault rife/machine pistol with modded internal smartlink systems, upgrade scooter to a car, get a higher rating medkit.

== Personal Data ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 20/40 (2m/hit)     Swim: 11 (1m/hit)     
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf
Composure: 8
Judge Intentions: 8
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 7
Nuyen: 42,000•

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D,1
Attributes: B,3
Special: A,4
Skills: E,0
Resources: C,2

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 7 (10)
REA: 4
STR: 2
CHA: 3
INT: 5
LOG: 2
WIL: 5
EDG: 2
MAG: 5

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   5.01
Initiative:                9 +1d6
Rigger Initiative:         9 +1d6
Astral Initiative:         10 +3d6
Matrix AR:                 9 +1d6
Matrix Cold:               5 + DP +3d6
Matrix Hot:                5 + DP +4d6
Physical Damage           Track: 10
  Stun Damage           Track: 11

== Limits ==
Physical:                  4
Mental:                    5
Social:                    6
Astral:                    6

== Active Skills ==
Alchemy (Health)         Base:  6          Pool: 17 (19)
Assensing                Base:  0          Pool:  6
Automatics (Assault Rifles) Base:  6          Pool: 16 (18)
Con (Fast Talk)          Base:  1          Pool:  4 (6)
Counterspelling          Base:  5          Pool: 10
Palming                  Base:  0          Pool: 11
Perception (Visual)      Base:  4          Pool:  9 (11)
Sneaking (Urban)         Base:  1          Pool: 11 (13)

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Qualities ==
Agile Defender
Jack of All Trades Master of None
Low-Light Vision
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Fire-Bringer)
Perfect Time
Quick Healer
Sharpshooter

== Tradition ==
Chaos Magic, Resist Drain with: WIL + INT (10)

== Spells ==
Armor (Alchemical)       DV: F-2
Ball Lightning (Alchemical)DV: F-1
Combat Sense (Alchemical)DV: F
Deflection (Alchemical)  DV: F-1
Heal (Alchemical)        DV: F-4
Improved Invisibility (Alchemical)DV: F-1
Increase [Attribute] (Alchemical) (INT)DV: F-3
Increase Reflexes (Alchemical)DV: F
Levitate (Alchemical)    DV: F-2
Physical Barrier (Alchemical)DV: F-1

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Datajack
Muscle TonerRating 3
Smartlink

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 9   Accuracy: 4   DV: 2S   AP: -   RC: 2

== Gear: Equipped ==
Alchemical Focus (Bonded Foci) Rating 4

Mathan

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #7 on: (21:01:35/08-23-17) »
I have a sniper, who I may put up here later, using goggles to fill much of the role of the scope when on the move. a melee hardened Crockett is a good move weapon  wise, and capsule rounds MAY allow for potions to be stored in them, not sure. you can still throw in some DMSO and chemical fun to start though if you want until you can alchemy bullet. Also with alchemy you should be able to cook a bag of tricks Remember snipers need to worry about getting in and out of position, about people going after them, about counter-sniping.

It's a fun concept, but the reality is that snipers have many jobs to do and many 'types' when you break them down.

Mirikon

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #8 on: (00:59:47/08-28-17) »
I'm not going to stat up a whole build, but some basic guidelines I'd use:
  • Other than Alchemy, you can ignore most magic skills as a specialist enchanter. If you have extra skill points, though, Arcana may be worth it, to write your own spells/preparations.
  • Sneaking and Perception will be important to you.
  • Keep a backup weapon for close-range work. Yes, some sniper rifles can be used in CQB, but a BF or FA shotgun will make a very persuasive argument on why people shouldn't get close to you.
  • Spell selection is key for an alchemist. Other than Fireball (or the equivalent for other elements), there's no point in taking combat spells, since you won't be able to get the hits needed to make them hurt. Same with any opposed spell. On the other hand, things that have a flat effect based on hits are going to be your bread and butter. That means Detection, Health, Illusion, and a couple Manipulation spells (Shadow, Armor, etc.). Alchemy is actually really good for these things, since you can prep them ahead of time, sleep off the drain, and then pop one when you need it, like combat drugs, but without the addiction.
  • Focus on kitting out your magic and skills as much as possible at chargen. Nuyen is far easier to come by than karma, so gear is always easier to obtain in game than new spells, foci, or the like.
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Marcus

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Re: Alchemist/Sniper Help
« Reply #9 on: (17:04:41/08-28-17) »
Simplest way.... (my preferences in bold)

Magic A/B Magician
Attributes B/A
Skills C
Resources D/E
Meta E/D  Human

Attribute spread will let you max and softcap agility, intuition, reaction, and willpower, and get decent str/log/char/body. Magic will be 5 (which is fine for alchemists). Magic B gives you extra starting skills to get going and free alchemical prep slots.  Skills C lets you be a solid alchemist, sniper, and cover your runner basics. Resources D lets you buy/bind a R4 alchemy focus at chargen. 

After 15 karma on edge and binding your focus, you are at -2 karma and 30k of nuyen left to spare. This lets you get up to 23 karma worth of positive qualities (given 25 karma of negatives) and enough money for starter gear. 7 alchemical spells is more than enough. 

There are some aspected routes that can be fun with more 'ware and such, but they start off less ready to play.   

I would also note that "sniper" can be a tough role for a lot of shadowrun groups. A lot of runs happen "inside," don't involve ambushes or picking people off, etc. I often find that instead of taking the Longarms skill and specializing in sniper rifles, taking the Automatics skill and specializing in assault rifles lets you have a lot more flexibility. While assault rifles have less range than sniper rifles, they are definitely long range weapons and lets you be a sniper for most purposes when a run actually calls for one. Additionally, it gives the added flexibility at being skilled at machine pistols and SMGs so that when a run doesn't need a sniper, you still have a lot of options for engagement. If you do prefer Longarms, they still give access to shotguns if you prefer them for closer range fights.

I will also note that I haven't read Forbidden Arcana, which does make some changes and adds new tools to enchanters.
^^^This. +1 FST.