Author Topic: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes  (Read 659 times)

Dr Adder

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Hi,

1/ i saw many  characters on the site with augmented attribute (generally REA ) : 5(9)
I thought the maximum was 7 for an unaugmented attributes of 5 ?
Or does it mean the PC functions with REA 7, but reminds that if karma is spent to REA 6, he 'll go for REA 9 ?

2/ Bosuses for drugs are limited to the augmented attribute like with (bio)ware ?
That is if you have Strength 2 and take Kamikaze (which boost +2 Strength) you'll temporary get Strength 2(3) or 2(4) ?
« Last Edit: (16:23:04/04-19-16) by Dr Adder »

farothel

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #1 on: (12:05:45/04-17-16) »
in the core book SR20A, p68 it is stated that the maximum agugmented attribute value for each metatype is the maximum unaugmented times 1.5 (rounded down).  It doesn't say that at any time your augmented attribute cannot be more than your unaugmented times 1.5.  Only the maximum is capped this way.  So you can have 5(9).  In fact, on page 110 the sample street samurai has an agility of 5(8 ), so apparently it's allowed to have more augmentations than just your current attribute times 1.5.

So that means that for your second question it's 2(4).

Of course, if you want to houserule this as GM, feel free, but theoretically a value of 1(5) for instance is allowed by RAW (and it can have a good explanation, like getting cyber after an accident and then going overboard with it).
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute"

Dr Adder

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #2 on: (04:56:04/04-18-16) »
Thank you Farothel for your quick answer.

I am confused. I Thought your effective augmented attribute score(or skill) was capped 1.5 times your actual unaugmented score, not racial potential maximum.

Does that mean that i can create a PC with STR 1   AGI 1  REA 1    WILL 1   and boost them at creation with :

Reaction Enhancers lvl 2
Wired Reflexes lvl 2
Muscle Augmentation lvl 2
Muscle Toner lvl 2

and get a PC with   STR 3   AGI 3   REA 5  ?!

and with an Adrenaline Pump lvl 2, i wil get temporary STR 5   AGI 5   REA 7  and WILL 3  ?!

I can't rely on sample characters of the core rules, they are often wrong and confusing. Second, this may come from a specific rule on  cyberlimbs. Except this exemple none of the sample characters has augmented attributes more than 1.5 times unaugmented attributes.

Or just to be clear : a PC with REA 1 and augmented with Wired Reflexes lvl 3 and Reaction Enhancers lvl 3 will get a functionnal  REA 1(7) ?
« Last Edit: (05:07:32/04-18-16) by Dr Adder »

Herr Brackhaus

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #3 on: (08:26:28/04-18-16) »
To be specific, page 68 states the following:
Quote from: SR4A page 68
The standard range of natural human attributes is rated on a scale of 1 to 6, with 3 being average. Physical and Mental attributes have a maximum natural rating of 6 plus or minus metatype modifiers, depending on metatype (p. 81). The maximum augmented attribute value for each metatype is equal to 1.5 times this figure, rounded down (see the Metatype Attribute Table, p. 81).
So yes, farothel has it right, the only cap is on the maximum augmented stat, not the natural augmented attribute.

A human could indeed have Reaction 1 (7) with the right gear, and with high enough Force magic could even go to Reaction 1 (9).

This changed in SR5 where the augmented maximum is current natural attribute +4.

farothel

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #4 on: (08:36:46/04-18-16) »
Although I must add if I was GM, I would probably not allow such a character.  If I were to allow it, I would warn the player about the risks and the player would have to come up with a very good backstory about how he got at that point, probably take a few negative qualities (like augmentation addiction) and there would be at least once in the campaign where I would find a way to shut part of his 'ware down (for instance they are captured and all their toys are taken away, included all cyber, which is deactivated).
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute"

Dr Adder

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #5 on: (04:33:54/04-19-16) »
Thank you Farothel and Herr Brackhaus for these  precisions.

It makes no sense to me though, because so many augmented charaters should create PC with minimax( or sofmax if it's primary attribute) STR, REA, LOG and AGI and take Muscle Augmentation , Muscle Toner, Cerebral Booster and Reaction Enhancers at the best level they can afford by principle at  chargen , and boost it after.

Herr Brackhaus

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #6 on: (06:37:31/04-19-16) »
You'd think so, Dr Adder, but in my personal experience I haven't seen a lot of that. You'll get some builds here on the forums, sure, but at least in my group we never had an issue with this.

Just because the rules allow it doesn't make it a good idea; the best thing you can do is talk to your players about it.

farothel

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #7 on: (07:12:30/04-19-16) »
I haven't seen it either.  For starters, anybody with magic or resonance rating can't do this, because the set of 'ware you proposed would take out most of their essence, and therefore their magic rating.

Also like I mentioned before, 'ware can be taken out (permanent or temporary), so you want a basic value high enough to actually be able do something without the extras.

I'm not sure if it's actually cost-effective to do it that way.  The BP you save on your attributes you will lose because you need to buy a lot more 'ware.  Also at chargen you're limited in availability for some 'ware, meaning you can't build it up to the point you want it to.  The PC you proposed actually has only average attributes, even though you already spent a fortune on 'ware (and in most cases, have the maximum availability you're allowed at chargen).  So if you get decent attributes and then add the 'ware, you get exceptional attributes.
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute"

Dr Adder

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #8 on: (14:34:23/04-19-16) »
Thank you Farothel and Herr Brackhaus.

I haven't yet played or GMed Shadowrun. I discovered SR two years ago when a friend proposed to GM, and i started to create PCs. Finally whe didn't played, but i felt that SR was far more interesting than i first thought and continue to create PC and try to understand the rules. IMHO, the Matrix  is a puzzling autonomous game hidden in SR4A20 dedicated to sociopthic accountants ...

For now i've got a concept of Face, but don't know on which part on the site i can submit it, cos' there's no thread for PC creation for previous editions.

Herr Brackhaus

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #9 on: (15:14:15/04-19-16) »
IMHO, the Matrix  is a puzzling autonomous game hidden in SR4A20 dedicated to sociopthic accountants ...
Hey, I resemble that remark! Except I'm not an accountant...

*coughs*

Yeah, the Matrix has a steep learning curve, that's for sure, and it's a pretty complicated system. It does make sense though, at least to my mind. Maybe that says more about me :)

farothel

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Re: [SR4A20] clarifications with augmented attributes
« Reply #10 on: (15:31:59/04-19-16) »
Put it under character creation and critique, but put in the title of the topic SR4, so people know it's from 4th edition.
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute"