[zarzak]

I really like the new Prototype Transhuman quality, but ...

I'm having trouble justifying it in *any* build.

10 karma for ignoring 1 essence of bioware seems great on the surface, but the opportunity cost is that you need to put in the nuyen for 1 karma of bioware.

Realistically you need priority C resources to get some nice bioware to make the quality worth it.  But the opportunity cost there is often either a priority worth of attributes (4 points), or a priority worth of special attributes (3 points of edge or whatever), or a substantial amount of skillpoints.

I've tried it with adept, technomancer, mystic adept, magician ... I just can't seem to make it ever 'worth it'.

Any thoughts?

[Whiskeyjack]

Sum-to-15? 

[Triskavanski]

I believe Life moduels might make it worth wild, as there is a few with additional bits of bioware in them.
I'm using it in a build I'm doing for a technomancer, the Juicer, which will use it. Just waiting for chummer to be good with the quality.

[ZeldaBravo]

I've tried it with adept, technomancer, mystic adept, magician ...

Have you tried a mundane? It is a whole point of essence for even more 'ware for a street sam.

[Whiskeyjack]

I've tried it with adept, technomancer, mystic adept, magician ...

Have you tried a mundane? It is a whole point of essence for even more 'ware for a street sam.

I think it's hard even for sams with 5e ware costs.

[ikarinokami]

it works great with an adept. use it and restricted gear to get level 4 muscle toner.

[Tai-Pan]

Adept its nearly worth taking toner 4 without the quality. 1 essence vs 4 power points

[zarzak]

it works great with an adept. use it and restricted gear to get level 4 muscle toner.

Yeah, or you could just instead buy some more strength with attributes instead ... and not have to spend the karma.  Or spend the money on a weapon focus instead (which is probably better the much better buy).  I mean ... 20 karma + however much nuyen is a huge opportunity cost to pay.

Unless you're already maxed out on strength, and have solid body/agility/will/intuition/edge/magic.

Adept its nearly worth taking toner 4 without the quality. 1 essence vs 4 power points

Would you really want muscle toner 4 over a weapon focus though?

[Tai-Pan]

My missions primary went C resources and mananaged force 3 combat axe and used toner 3.... its mostly for show though I find throwing weapons to be enough.

[FST_Gemstar]

I'm trying to make it work for a technomancer, and the only thing I can think of is that the character started as less optimal, and then buying some more 'ware thoughout the character's career.

[zarzak]

My missions primary went C resources and mananaged force 3 combat axe and used toner 3.... its mostly for show though I find throwing weapons to be enough.

Right - but that required a C in resources.  What if you instead took a B in resources and upped something else (attribute/metatype/skills/magic)?  Would you have been more 'optimal' then?  (Not so concerned with more flavorful, just looking purely at the numbers here)

[ikarinokami]

it works great with an adept. use it and restricted gear to get level 4 muscle toner.

Yeah, or you could just instead buy some more strength with attributes instead ... and not have to spend the karma.  Or spend the money on a weapon focus instead (which is probably better the much better buy).  I mean ... 20 karma + however much nuyen is a huge opportunity cost to pay.

Unless you're already maxed out on strength, and have solid body/agility/will/intuition/edge/magic.

Adept its nearly worth taking toner 4 without the quality. 1 essence vs 4 power points

Would you really want muscle toner 4 over a weapon focus though?

is this a trick question?  do you know how expensive 4 points of agility would be? 4 points of agility is  far superior to a weapon focus.
agility modifies among other things
gymnastics
agile defender
firearms
stealth
lock picking etc.

unless you are going for a social adapt, it's hard to find a better deal, in both karma efficiency and effectiveness.

[zarzak]

I'm trying to make it work for a technomancer, and the only thing I can think of is that the character started as less optimal, and then buying some more 'ware thoughout the character's career.

Technomancer is what it should work *best* for, because of the fact you can boost logic *and* willpower through bioware.

I also believe that you need to start with the bioware with prototype transhuman.  It doesn't explicitly state so, but every aspect of the text implies it: "These special organs were genetically grown into you from your inception—they are as much a natural part of you as your liver or heart."  So no taking the quality and then buying the bioware later

[zarzak]

it works great with an adept. use it and restricted gear to get level 4 muscle toner.

Yeah, or you could just instead buy some more strength with attributes instead ... and not have to spend the karma.  Or spend the money on a weapon focus instead (which is probably better the much better buy).  I mean ... 20 karma + however much nuyen is a huge opportunity cost to pay.

Unless you're already maxed out on strength, and have solid body/agility/will/intuition/edge/magic.

Adept its nearly worth taking toner 4 without the quality. 1 essence vs 4 power points

Would you really want muscle toner 4 over a weapon focus though?

is this a trick question?  do you know how expensive 4 points of agility would be? 4 points of agility is  far superior to a weapon focus.
agility modifies among other things
gymnastics
agile defender
firearms
stealth
lock picking etc.

unless you are going for a social adapt, it's hard to find a better deal, in both karma efficiency and effectiveness.

But for the 4 points of agility what did you need to give up?

20 karma, and a C in resources (whereas before you may have taken a D, for example).  That could raise your attributes a level (4 more attribute points), or your metatype a level (3 more edge, or 3 more magic), or etc.

So 4 agility gives you 4 more dice for a lot of tests, there is also an enormous opportunity cost there. 

[FST_Gemstar]

" You were built better than a normal human, so you may pick up to 1 point of Essence of bioware (not cyberware). While you must pay the normal cost in nuyen of the bioware and otherwise follow all character creation rules, you do not incur any essence cost. So, essentially, you gain up to 1 point of free Essence to be used exclusively on bioware."

I am understanding the quality as the character's body is better built to handle bioware, not that they have the corresponding bioware built in from birth.