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"I want to play Shadowrun, but I only play d20."

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firebug

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« Reply #45 on: <11-07-13/0633:50> »
The accumulated filth of all theirTHAC0 and feats will foam up about their waists and all the Bards and Paladins will look up and shout "Convert Shadowrun to d20!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like my father or Tom Dowd. Decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's nuyen. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloodly Hell, all those OGL Apologists and Min-Maxers and Munchkins ... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.

That made me giggle.  Two of my favorite things combined!
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Crunch

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« Reply #46 on: <11-07-13/0842:28> »

Mutants and Masterminds - Remember reading comics and seeing the freewheeling battles where Hulk throws a tank at someone, or where the X-men are in a free-for-all against a Sentinel? That's the kind of feel M&M has. Everything is more abstracted, making it good for most superhero games. Good for a wide range of characters, though some types may be a little hard to put together (it is something of a nightmare trying to put together a person who can drag someone into the digital world where your Computer skill determines your abilities, best to stat it up like a kind of dimensional movement).

Which edition of M&M are you talking about. I know they've got their own system in some editions, but the edition I played was a kludge around of D20 modern and didn't play like that at all.

Shamie

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« Reply #47 on: <11-07-13/1122:03> »
My frustration with d20 is not with the system per se, but the fact that so many gamers view it as the Hammer for All Settings. The group I know love Shadowrun as a setting, but refused to  play unless it was adjusted to d20. I took a brief look at conversion and threw my hands up.

Oh then you gonna love GURPS fanboys :P

What's your problem with d20, though?
I have yet to find any d20 that fits a kind of game that I want to play.

Sure, it's easy and popular. So is Nikki Minaj. But if I say "I don't enjoy the music of Nikki Minaj," people don't start inundating you with suggestions on how you should appreciate her music more.

i have a DM who had the same issue, he found his niche with Thieves world. Its D&D D20 but it has more down to earth felling to it.


Now onto the OP question. I have presented a lot of new players to RPGs who it was their first time so they didnt want to learn a 500+ rulebook.

What to do, first i dont know if what you say here reflects your public persona but bashing a system your group are fanboys to doesnt seems the way to go. When you bash something other people like and want them to change it bashing it just make people take the defensive so be humble about it.

Secondly i would say "you throw the funny dice and i tell you what happens" approach if they dont want to learn a new system is to say "ok, you dont have to learn it, i know the system so i tell you what to do". You gonna have TO KNOW the system inside and out so they just gonna have sit and play and not an ounce of effort is gonna be spent by them. Make them choose a "class" from the Archetypes and use that same PC as written. Forget customization of PC for now, let them play stereotypes. If they really start pestering about that during the game just say "dont worry, next game im gonna teach you how to make a PC".

For those who dont want to learn a new system before they know its good that the best way IMO.

nylanfs

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« Reply #48 on: <11-07-13/1355:54> »
You could use SpyCraft (Classic or v2.0) to make a good conversion.

http://www.crafty-games.com/product_catalog/spycraft20

Mirikon

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« Reply #49 on: <11-07-13/1759:49> »
The accumulated filth of all theirTHAC0 and feats will foam up about their waists and all the Bards and Paladins will look up and shout "Convert Shadowrun to d20!"... and I'll look down and whisper "No." They had a choice, all of them. They could have followed in the footsteps of good men like my father or Tom Dowd. Decent men who believed in a day's work for a day's nuyen. Instead they followed the droppings of lechers and communists and didn't realize that the trail led over a precipice until it was too late. Don't tell me they didn't have a choice. Now the whole world stands on the brink, staring down into bloodly Hell, all those OGL Apologists and Min-Maxers and Munchkins ... and all of a sudden nobody can think of anything to say.
For those of you who don't get the reference, Bob here is paraphrasing Rorschach from Watchmen. While an interesting and compelling character, he isn't exactly the picture of rationality or mental stability. Is there anything you'd like to tell us, Bob? ;)

Which edition of M&M are you talking about. I know they've got their own system in some editions, but the edition I played was a kludge around of D20 modern and didn't play like that at all.
Sounds like you played first edition, Crunch. And I'll agree that first edition was painful to work in. In my mind, 2nd edition is the best, and is the one I have the most experience with. I've also played some 3rd edition, but some of the changes they've made really irked me.
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Parker

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« Reply #50 on: <11-07-13/2006:03> »
It's a two-way street, Bob.  What's been their past experiences with DMs?  Any of them shudder and whisper of T.P.K.s or how pissing off the Dungeon Master that evening was a quick way to lose that Level 21 Mage-Thief?  A decent story and a kind game-master can win over a group of obstinate players by allowing them to pursue a goal(s) within the game.  Like it was suggested earlier, meet them half-way and dangle a nice carrot for their characters to work for.  You don't need to throw all 500+ pages of the core-book at them.  Just the basics needed for an enjoyable evening of gaming   
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SnackerBob

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« Reply #51 on: <11-07-13/2033:16> »
Like it was suggested earlier, meet them half-way and dangle a nice carrot for their characters to work for.  You don't need to throw all 500+ pages of the core-book at them.  Just the basics needed for an enjoyable evening of gaming   
I reckon that's what I'll probably need to do. Thanks for the advice on that, everyone.


For those of you who don't get the reference, Bob here is paraphrasing Rorschach from Watchmen. While an interesting and compelling character, he isn't exactly the picture of rationality or mental stability. Is there anything you'd like to tell us, Bob? ;)
My intense dislike of d20 may be a touch irrational, but it is the only standard of Gaming that I have. I'll groan and play some M&M if that's the only game in town, but I won't try a conversion. Seriously, that's a headache no one needs.

HOPEFULLY, their irrational fear of more than one die in a game is less than my fear of GMing a d20 game.

Agonar

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« Reply #52 on: <11-08-13/0043:40> »
I got my group interested just by talking about it.  Besides my tabletop group, I play regularly on a Virtual Table, we have an IRC chat setup, and some of us regularly hang out there.  Now, it is all associated with D&D 4e, and most (if not all) of the players there have never played a different system.

So, when the PDF came out, I started talking about Shadowrun.  About maybe putting my Darksun game on hold, and running Shadowrun

"What sounds too complex" or "Does that even make sense to anyone?" were some of the comments I would see in the chat, as we discussed various characters or mechanics.  But the more we discussed the setting, and the mechanics, the more interest a few people gained.  They were willing to give it a shot.  So, I sat down and explained character creation to them.

The player who was skeptical the longest was immediately in love with character generation, and the Priority System.  Repeatedly praising the system for forcing him to actually think about how character, weigh choices, make the tough decisions on whether he wanted a lot of starting cash, or more starting skill points.  I think he even said, at one point, that this was the best character creation system he had ever seen, because he couldn't start with it all, instead he would spend time agonizing over priorities until he had his character just right.


After having played a couple sessions, some of them aren't sure what to make of the game.  They like having their "heroic" characters, not people with moral ambiguity, people who would take wetwork jobs.  I tell them, they don't have to accept every job offered to them.  They can pick and choose.  Of course, there will be consequences to their actions either way.  But ultimately, I am glad that I got a group of "only D&D players" to consider, and actually play Shadowrun.
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Medicineman

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« Reply #53 on: <11-08-13/0222:40> »
So, if any d20 proponents out there can write up a complete system for Shadowrun that isn't based on the Terrible Mutants and Masterminds system, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to play some Shadowrun without vomiting.
I remember a Conversion fo SR4A to D20 from a fellow German Roleplayer .
He anounced it in the Tanelorn Forum .
IIRC his Nick is Blut & Glas.
You could contact him (he understands English) and ask for his Conversion

with a conversion Dance
Medicineman
http://english.bouletcorp.com/2013/08/02/the-long-journey/
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