[hoslot]

I am trying to build an ork mystic adept who can stand in a fight.  With a bit of karma and money, I am hoping to get him some cerebral bioware to get his logic up to 8 and become a crappy decker too.  Im kinda new so I am looking for advice and to make sure everything is legal. 

Ork 50, mystic adept 35, power points 30, magic 100, spells 40, UCAS 15, Fugitive 40, magical education 50, state school magic major 65, corporate wage slave 100, postgraduate education 100, focused concentration 20, mentor spirit berserk 5, specialization combat spell casting 7, jack of all trades 2, 2 reaction 35, 3 body 45, magicians way 20.


Attributes:
Body 7(
Str 3
Agility 1
Reaction 4(
Intuition 4
Willpower 5
Logic 5
Charisma 4

.........................
Skills
Computer           2
etiquette              5
perception          2
sneaking             1
con                       3
impersonate       2
performance      2
spell casting      6 (combat)
ritual                    2
counterspelling 4
arcana                4
astral combat    4
negotiate           2
instruction         2
assessing         2

Adept Power:
Increase reaction   3
Body   1
Reaction   1
astral sight   1
Mystic armor   2
Combat reflex   1
Body boost   1
spirit claws   
.......................
Spells
lightning ball
stun bolt
punch
physical mask
improved willpower
clarivoyance
Armor
heal

[Whiskeyjack]

What's your magic stat?

How even do you have so many powers? That looks like at least 9 PP in cost (a lot of those powers are awful but that's beside the point).

[hoslot]

6 magic,
berserker mentor gives 2 free levels of pain resist or mystic armor.
Magicians way makes 6/2=3 powers cost half, so
Increase reflex =3.5
Body = 1/2=.5
reaction = 1/2 = .5
astral sight =1/2=,5
combat reflex = .5
body boost = .25 (which I don't know if this boost soak dice)
spirit claws =.25

[Marcus]

What are you trying to build? A Tank? A Caster? It looks like a combat caster, but I'm just not really sure.

Also I think killing hand a pre-req for Spirit claws.

Also PQs and NQs?

[hoslot]

I am trying to build a combat mage but I don't want to my tight cast so I was hoping to double as a half assed face and decker after a bit of $ and karma.  I also did not realize that adept ways are considered qualities and count against the 25pt cap (though our GM ruled that cap was flexible so I have 27pts after getting rid of magicians way)

As far as positive qualities

Focused concentration 5, mentor spirit berserker and jack of all trades

Negative qualities

paranoia, bad rep and limited corporate sin (15)

[Whiskeyjack]

I am trying to build a combat mage but I don't want to my tight cast so I was hoping to double as a half assed face and decker after a bit of $ and karma

These are not things you can half-ass very successfully.

Take some of your running fee and hire a competent NPC to do your decking.

[hoslot]

We have a decker.  As a side note, I don't like how shodowrun breaks up games into real world, matrix and astral.  Usually only 1 character from a group can go into the matrix and the astral plane which means while the GM is handling that, everyone else twiddles their thumbs on their phones.  There should be a mechanic for deckers to bring everyone else into the matrix with them, its just that the decker is much better there.  Similarly mages should be able to help other characters astrally project.  This way everyone is involved all the time.

Anyway 1 good decker and 1 shitty decker may be better then just 1 good decker. 

[adzling]

No offense but your falling into the noob mystic adept trap.
You can't do everything, and being crappy at something will not help a skilled teammate but only slow them down/ get u all killed.
It's a team game for a reason.

[ikarinokami]

We have a decker.  As a side note, I don't like how shodowrun breaks up games into real world, matrix and astral.  Usually only 1 character from a group can go into the matrix and the astral plane which means while the GM is handling that, everyone else twiddles their thumbs on their phones.  There should be a mechanic for deckers to bring everyone else into the matrix with them, its just that the decker is much better there.  Similarly mages should be able to help other characters astrally project.  This way everyone is involved all the time.

Anyway 1 good decker and 1 shitty decker may be better then just 1 good decker.

This is the main reason in my opinion why most newbies make such ineffective shadowrun characters. the need to be apart of everything, the unwillingness to accept that each runner has their function.

[Whiskeyjack]

This is the main reason in my opinion why most newbies make such ineffective shadowrun characters. the need to be apart of everything, the unwillingness to accept that each runner has their function.

Well, there is a big difference between "I am a MysAd who can double as a face" (which is easy) or "I'm a sam who's also great at B&E" (which is incredibly easy) or "I'm a decker who can rig multiple drones" (which is doable, but expensive) or "I'm a decker with some magic that improves my decking" (which is quite a bit harder, but doable if you fiddle) and "I want to be a MysAd face off-decker," which is super skill-heavy (magic, summoning, decking, social skills), super-MAD (everyone wants INT and REA, everyone wants average BOD, and then you want high CHA, LOG, WIL, and MAG 6 as well), and wants a ton of money to boot.

Having a secondary role is not hard, and often great. It's nice to have something to do in both fight scenes and non-fight scenes, or a good way to contribute to legwork, or a way to help another player and get them more successes. The issue is often trying to do it all yourself, as if it's not a team game or as if you have to justify having done it all yourself in the past.

Also people coming from 4e might find that they COULD do it all a lot easier, and you could, under BP! But that's just not the case under priority or karma in 5e, and life modules are not easily done well by new players either. Priority is a big change.

[ikarinokami]

This is the main reason in my opinion why most newbies make such ineffective shadowrun characters. the need to be apart of everything, the unwillingness to accept that each runner has their function.

Well, there is a big difference between "I am a MysAd who can double as a face" (which is easy) or "I'm a sam who's also great at B&E" (which is incredibly easy) or "I'm a decker who can rig multiple drones" (which is doable, but expensive) or "I'm a decker with some magic that improves my decking" (which is quite a bit harder, but doable if you fiddle) and "I want to be a MysAd face off-decker," which is super skill-heavy (magic, summoning, decking, social skills), super-MAD (everyone wants INT and REA, everyone wants average BOD, and then you want high CHA, LOG, WIL, and MAG 6 as well), and wants a ton of money to boot.

Having a secondary role is not hard, and often great. It's nice to have something to do in both fight scenes and non-fight scenes, or a good way to contribute to legwork, or a way to help another player and get them more successes. The issue is often trying to do it all yourself, as if it's not a team game or as if you have to justify having done it all yourself in the past.

Also people coming from 4e might find that they COULD do it all a lot easier, and you could, under BP! But that's just not the case under priority or karma in 5e, and life modules are not easily done well by new players either. Priority is a big change.

Note I said everything. The point of he was making were there were areas of the game that could not participate in. It is not possible  to make a character good at everything thing in this game. I said nothing about participating in multiple aspects. I said you have to accept that you cannot have a role in all aspects of the game.

[Whiskeyjack]

I was agreeing with you.

And you can certainly have multiple aspects, but not all multiple aspects mesh well.

[ikarinokami]

I was agreeing with you.

And you can certainly have multiple aspects, but not all multiple aspects mesh well.

my error. we are in agreement.

[hoslot]

What may be more helpful is to break down what is needed to be a moderately competent combat mage, decker and face.

Combat mage needs Magic 5+, spell casting 5+, combat spells 3+, focused concentration, damage soak dice 20+, average initiative 16+ , drain resist 10+, mentor spirit. 

Face needs charisma 5+, etiquette, negotiate, con, impersonate

Decker (here I don't know much about decking so these are guesses)  Logic 5+, .4 essence for internal deck, .6 essence for cerebral bioware +3 logic,  $40000+ for decent deck, computers, software, cyber combat, hacking.

In our group we have people who are specialized and they tune out of the game when their role is not being called for.  I call it 4th edition D&D syndrome where the game tries to force characters into very specific roles.   

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What are the other characters?

What may be more helpful is to break down what is needed to be a moderately competent combat mage, decker and face.

Combat mage needs Magic 5+, spell casting 5+, combat spells 3+, focused concentration, damage soak dice 20+, average initiative 16+ , drain resist 10+, mentor spirit. 

Face needs charisma 5+, etiquette, negotiate, con, impersonate

Combat school spells are not as good in this edition as sustained debuffs. Generally you want (1) a way to hurt spirits (Stunbolt); (2) a way to hurt Drones (Ball Lightning); (3) a way to take people alive (Stunbolt); and (4) a way to do physical damage (Ball Lightning). See where I'm going? The rest of a good spell list is usually filled up with utility spells and debuffs - Heal, Sterilize, Extended Detect Enemies, Analyze Truth, Mob Mind, Influence, Levitate, Trid Phantasm (works on drones!), Physical Mask (works on drones!), Improved Invisibility (works on drones!), Chaotic World (works on drones!), Hot Potato, Mana Barrier...stuff like that.

20+ soak on a combat mage...have the Sam draw fire as best they can. Seriously. And they should be rocking Agile Defender as well.

That just gets in to needing WAY too much. Regardless of tradition, mages already need high INT 5, REA 3+, WIL 5, and a hard-capped Drain stat. They want BOD 3 at least. IMO they probably want some AGI because of movement rate, and being able to just lay down not-complete-crap full auto fire with an SMG if necessary is nice.

A face can get away without Impersonate. It's important to recognize Impersonate vs Con. Say you dress up as a janitor, have Physical Mask put on you, and try to talk your way in to a corporate warehouse. Convincing the guard you a random corporate janitor is Con. Convincing him that you're Julio the Janitor and you forgot your access badge and, c'mon man, if I have to go home and get it, they'll dock my pay, ask Raul, he knows me, that's Impersonation when you have to make Raul believe it's really Julio.

Etiquette you don't need much. it's the important opposed skill tests of Con and Negotiation that are most crucial.

Decker (here I don't know much about decking so these are guesses)  Logic 5+, .4 essence for internal deck, .6 essence for cerebral bioware +3 logic,  $40000+ for decent deck, computers, software, cyber combat, hacking.

Internal deck isn't necessary. Cerebral Boosters are nice but 3 isn't significantly better than 2. A good deck is important, yes. Hacking is the most important skill, followed by Computer for those extended legwork checks involving the Matrix.  Cybercombat CAN be important IF you want to brick guns in combat. Software you just need 1 and a Data Bomb spec. Hardware is nice to repair Matrix damage on your own deck. A gun skill can also be quite useful because not every gun can be spiked and, again, covering fire is good.

Full Deckers also often benefit greatly from the following PQs: Codeslinger: Hack on the Fly, Overclocker, and Perfect Time.

But first and foremost, the character can hack in AR or in VR. There are pros and cons to both. The pro of +2 dice to actions and free initiative boosting is balanced by the con of biofeedback damage to your brain. The pro of AR being safer is balanced by the con of needing meatspace initiative enhancement. IMO the best AR deckers are adepts but it's easy enough to do it fully wared out.

In our group we have people who are specialized and they tune out of the game when their role is not being called for.  I call it 4th edition D&D syndrome where the game tries to force characters into very specific roles.

Ugh jeez maybe you just need a new group if everyone is so uninterested