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Weapon Mod/design question

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Shadowwalker

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« on: <09-30-10/2009:05> »
Is the GM out of line here or is he giving the player a reasonable chance at the weapon design (note I am the GM here so feel free to harsh on me about my answer if you feel the need)

E-mail Received from Player
Salt has an idea for a weapon that needs to be mounted on a drone or vehicle the drone needs to be able to handle a lot of power as the weapon has a huge power requirement.
 
Salt calls it a
 
Galting Laser
requirements
8 laser rifles or pistols(not the heavy version)
rate of fire: FA 15 shots no recoil
gatlin of course
laser rifle DMG 7P
laser pistol DMG 6P
laser rifle version requires something that can handle about 10 back pack power packs worth of power
 
This is not a cheap gun may I add the price of 8 of those rifles brings it over 200,000 Nuyen to design and build.

Game Master Response

As this ability may only be added to LMGs, MMGs, HMGs and that the weapons in Question are only SA weapons with special exotic ammunition. the research required will eat up a large amount of your Time and Money just to get a working Design then longer to reach the prototype stage
Things to take into account: for you to change the Fire rate you will need a Facility rated Lab to research the new power packs discharge rate ,then Facility rated Workshop to build it, and this is just the Start then the research into the need design changes and the time to start building
 In reality Salt will be looking at a number closer to 7,000,000 if you are lucky.
You are free to start the research but it will eat up most of the time you would be doing jobs.
Skills needed: Exotic Weapons (lasers), Hardware, Armorer, Industrial Mechanics, KS: Laser weapons,

Any thoughts on both the weapon and/or the response from the GM
« Last Edit: <09-30-10/2108:18> by Shadowwalker »

Mach

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« Reply #1 on: <09-30-10/2136:59> »
I.M.O.

I say this thing is broken. with full auto it would be doing a base 17L damage with 1/2 ap. I'm not even sure there are creatures in game that are meant to possess the kind of stats required to withstand even one shot from this thing.

the drone required would be about the size of a van/tank and the majority of it's space would be dedicated to said power plant. notice I said power plant, no set of backpacks should be able to give enough power to power something made from six to seven laser weapons.
then there is the amount of space it will take up on said vehicle/drone. a standard weapon mount requires minimum 3 body points. if you bypass the power requirements by plugging it into a (large) power source, the drone could be something as small as a Ford LEBD (Lonestar Law Enforcement Backup Drone).

So to recap, this gun does almost as much damage as two panther cannons combined as base damage with a massive AP value. It can be mounted on something as small as a Ford LEBD or a renraku red samurai. and since it is an energy weapon (I believe) it has the potential to affect spirits.

here's an idea to consider: the train of drones. Set the gun onto a rotating turret on the first drone in a series of about 11-12, the rest are nothing more than armored power backpacks on wheels connected by armored cables, every last one of them with an armor of at least 9-10. it would be slow, but nothing could stand against it.

now, if this doesn't seem broken yet, then go post it on the scariest gun contest.

street.mage

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« Reply #2 on: <09-30-10/2218:10> »
I can only imagine something the size of this ^ in the sprawl going after a target.  I could not believe the reaction the passerby's would have.  That's an awesome visual, Mach.

"Holy drek!  Did you see the size of that thing!," a man yells over the noise of the tank-sized drone just inside the door of a local cafe.  Meanwhile, people are running and screaming, Lone Star/Knight Errant sirens are heard in the background as a DocWagon ambulance pulls up to a man who suffered a concussion just outside the store.  The drone is smashing into cars; windows are shattering from various collisions.

I definitely agree with Mach.  Broken, as your player wants it.  but with enough handicaps, it wouldn't matter.  Another thing?  Bulkiness?  The amount of noise it makes?  And could you imagine the various groups of people that would kill for this type of prototype?  Heck, he'd have to stop doing runs to make sure it doesn't get stolen!  The more time he uses it, the more people will want it.

Drek, this gives me a great idea for a run.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #3 on: <10-01-10/0226:30> »
Well, it's your game, but I wouldn't allow it.

It's very clearly NOT part of the standard rules, so its a GM call.

Stuff like this really needs a facility and an entire design crew to create, though. It's not like firearms where a guy could in real life machine one in a shop.

The ONLY place in Shadowrun you'd see this is in military hands, as a military project. Because, let's face it, it's a military grade weapon.

And of course, being a military grade weapon, once the powers that be realize what it is that's tearing up the streets in the hands of a shadowrunner, they're going to answer it with military-grade responses.

The runner won't even see what killed him and took out half a city block. If he's lucky he might hear the whine of the incoming airstrike.

This is Shadowrun, not BattleZone 2070s. Most of the time, anything more than pistols/SMGs will get the SWAT team called in. Anything more than assault rifles or maybe LMGs will get military scale assets in response.

Shadowrunners can and do use heavy weapons, it's true. But every time, it's for extreme situations, and once you start firing them, every good 'Runner know that a countdown clock has started. If you're not long gone before it hits zero, you're dead. Just dead, no matter how bad-ass you think you are.



-k
« Last Edit: <10-01-10/0235:07> by KarmaInferno »

Mäx

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« Reply #4 on: <10-01-10/0322:37> »
I say this thing is broken. with full auto it would be doing a base 17L damage with 1/2 ap. I'm not even sure there are creatures in game that are meant to possess the kind of stats required to withstand even one shot from this thing.
There's nothing broken with that damage code, it's vehicle weapon after all.
Aztechnology Itzcóatl Gauss Cannon for example does 18P damage and has 1/2 ap -10(meaning it fully negates the maximum amount of armor a vehicle can have, not counting the smart armor) and its an area effect weapon.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Max Anderson

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« Reply #5 on: <10-01-10/0647:09> »
I say this thing is broken. with full auto it would be doing a base 17L damage with 1/2 ap. I'm not even sure there are creatures in game that are meant to possess the kind of stats required to withstand even one shot from this thing.
There's nothing broken with that damage code, it's vehicle weapon after all.
Aztechnology Itzcóatl Gauss Cannon for example does 18P damage and has 1/2 ap -10(meaning it fully negates the maximum amount of armor a vehicle can have, not counting the smart armor) and its an area effect weapon.

Well, we're talking about a weapon mounted on ships, and the description states that it uses most of the ship's power ! (and it costs a hefty 600 000 ¥ too).

Comparing with another vehicle-mounted laser weapon, the Ares Firelance deals only 12P, and is SS. Oh, and it can take only 10 shots before being depleted (without any power plant).

Besides, I find it rather silly that a laser would occur more damage with multiple low intensity laser shots than one big, huge laser with tremendous power. But hey, maybe that's just me...

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #6 on: <10-01-10/1255:22> »
I say this thing is broken. with full auto it would be doing a base 17L damage with 1/2 ap. I'm not even sure there are creatures in game that are meant to possess the kind of stats required to withstand even one shot from this thing.
There's nothing broken with that damage code, it's vehicle weapon after all.
Aztechnology Itzcóatl Gauss Cannon for example does 18P damage and has 1/2 ap -10(meaning it fully negates the maximum amount of armor a vehicle can have, not counting the smart armor) and its an area effect weapon.

My issue isn't the power level or damage of the item being unbalanced. Sure, it COULD exist in SR.

My issue is it being allowed to a player character.

What happens if a runner in Seattle starts firing a Aztechnology Itzcóatl Gauss Cannon around the streets? How would the cop/corps react?

Yeah.



-k

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #7 on: <10-02-10/1228:47> »
I agree that it could exist in SR, but that some research would be required in order to fabricate one that didn't melt the power cables and/or the housing after the first big burst.  Something that isn't really covered by the rules (but exists IRL and isn't going away in 60 years) is the fact that only about 10% or so of the power coming out the end of the lasing tube is the power that went into it.  The other 90% or so bleeds off as wasted energy in the form of heat and noise (the hum of the circuitry).  Mostly heat.

While multiple barrels alleviates a lot of this in the lasing chamber itself, the power coursing through the cables would be rather intense.  As would the power coming out of the power supply.  That would have to be really beefed up to take that kind of output, and those details are covered by GM fiat, mostly.  Sure, you could research it IRL and supply an answer to the GM, but would it be worth the time involved (both in and out of game)?
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Frankie the Fomori

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« Reply #8 on: <10-02-10/1445:56> »
I think it is less a case of allowing it, as you need to let the player know that to do it on his own could be very costly...and not just money.

Big corp gets wind of money (and that is allot of money for someone not associated with a corp, government, or any of large third person organizations out there) and research put into a development of a weapon that out shines some of what they have is going to weigh the costs  allowing this to proceed.

7 mill+, A weapon that could shatter allot of their security, and all this is being done in the shadows....no legal protection whatever. Now they would budget about 100K on a prime runner group, and now we have one supper weapon in your campaign to use against your runners and one dead shadow runner for trying to develop something he should have left well enough alone.

Sorry if it is rough post, fighting a verry nasty stomach bug.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #9 on: <10-02-10/1715:46> »
It really boils down to:

"Yeah, sure, you COULD eventually make one. Why would you want to draw that kinda of attention to yourself?"

 ;D




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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #10 on: <10-03-10/0836:55> »
Isn't that every shadowrun everywhere?
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."