Author Topic: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware  (Read 279 times)

Blazrath

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An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« on: (05:46:06/08-10-17) »
So, I'll admit I'm not the most skilled and cost effective minded character creator out there, but with this I definitely need some help. I've mostly been a purist in that if a person is going cyberware/bioware, they stick with that. If a person is going magic, they stick with that only. I've never put my hand to creating a blend until now. And to be honest... I feel like I did something wrong, but I don't know where exactly and could use a more skilled eye.

Priority Build
Attributes A
Resources B
Skills C
Magic D
Metatype E

Code Name: Freight Train

BOD 6/6
AGI 5(7)/6
REA 4
STR 5(7)/6
CHA 2
INT 3
LOG 2
WIL 5(7)/6
EDG 2/7
MAG 3*

By buying this up to 3 and then have 2 Magic lost to essence, I'm still considered Magical and not burnt out, right?

Limits
Phys 8
Mental 5
Social 5
Astral 5

Phys Con 9
Stun Con 12

Qualities
Cyber-Singularity Seeker
Quick Healer
Redliner

Cyber-snob
Dependent(Nuisance)
Poor Self Control(Combat Monster)

Skills(where I feel kinda iffy)
Unarmed Combat 6 +2 Blocking
Blades 6 +2 Swords
Sneaking 6 +2 Urban
Astral Combat 6
Athletics 2
Intimidation 1
Arcana 1
Assensing 1

Martial Arts
Kunst Des Fechtens
-Multiple Opponent Combat
-Riposte

Adept Powers
Astral Perception(cause why not be able to hit spirits? could be funny to surprise a mage)

Obvious Full Arm(Left and Right) Betaware
Custom Agility 5
Custom Strength 5
Armor 1
Shock Hand
129,000 Nuyen

Obvious Full Leg(Left and Right) Betaware
Custom Agility 5
Custom Strength 5
105,000 Nuyen

3.2 Essence

So, heres a small problem I have. With this build so far, do I keep everything as is and have a slow initiative to then wait on getting wired reflexes installed and work on getting Deltaware Status so my Essence stays at 3? Or do I swap out the legs, effectively losing 1 Agility, 1 Strength and 1 Willpower for Beta Wired Reflexes(Which are cheaper) and have the legs hacked off at a later date while trying to get to Delta.

OR! Do I keep what I have right now, start with a Magic Rating of 1, spend my karma on getting the Magic Rating up, spend the nuyen on getting Deltaware to get parts of my soul back, use power points to get my reflexes up and spend the extra 1 essence point on other cyberware(stuff like eye, ear and maybe a skilljack?)

I don't know necessarily the pros and cons to these ideas or if they can actually be done.

Gear
Lined Coat
Clothing x2

Knucks(cyberimplanted? maybe?)
Katana(swap the cosmetic to a european two handed sword?)
-Weapon Focus 3
-Personalized Grip

Fake SIN (4)
Fake License (4) Adept, Restricted Cyberware, Bodyguard
Certified Cred Stik Silver
Hermes Ikon

Life Style (Low)

Contacts
Club Owner Conn 4, Loyalty 2
Was thinking the type of contact that can get me in contact with others when needed, like cyberware upgrades and also give a small alibi every so often of "Yeah, he works here as a Bouncer. Here's his time card to show he clocked in and clocked out."

Any tips or tricks would be appreciated.
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ShadowcatX

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #1 on: (17:05:01/08-10-17) »
You lose a point of magic for each point, or portion of a point, of essence you burn, so at 3.2 essence you would have lost 3 magic, and you would, indeed, have burnt out. Also, do you really need to be an adept? You could be a spark at D (from forbidden arcana), they start with astral perception, magic at 3, and 1 skill (your choice, assensing or astral combat, hint: not astral combat) at 4. You would have to buy your magic up to 4 not to burn out, but that would only cost an extra 5 karma over what you have spent on it now. You would still be able to bond and use a weapon focus.

And can you start with betaware? I thought used, standard, and alpha were the only levels allowed at character creation.

Also, and this paragraph is just optimization so feel free to skip if you want. Why buy up attributes then chop off your limbs, and then rebuy the attributes at the level you bought them at the first time? Also, drop swords as a skill, you have metal arms, you can put spurs into them and use them with the unarmed skill and those can be your weapon focus. Use the skill points to get some type of gun. And drop astral combat, you have a charisma of 2, you do not want astral combat.

Blazrath

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #2 on: (18:31:20/08-10-17) »
So, after losing 2.8 essence, I would still be at 0 magic and burnt out. Alright, need to work on that aspect. So I might have to take aware and use the special point to make it to where I'm not a burn out.

Just looked it up again, you're right, I messed that one up pretty bad, hahahaha. Was too focused on optimizing.

So the way that I read Redliner and the author's post about it, it increases the strength of the mechanical limb, so with getting both set cut off, I get +2 Strength and +2 Agility with those limbs. If I leave the limb at 3, I get 5 and 5 at character generation, but if I push the meatspace up and then customize the limbs, I get 7 Strength and 7 Agility at the beginning, then can put in upgrades to the cyberware to increase their strength  and agility, either +3 enhancement with how their built to get 10/10 or +2 enhancement, having to get limbs built to have strength and agility 6 and spend karma on getting them in the meatspace 6 to have a human at strength and agility 10.

(Redliner) Any cyberlimbs you have installed are jacked-to-themax, with safety limits disabled and performance overclocked beyond what the warranty normally covers, and thatís the way you like it. You receive +1 Strength and +1 Agility for every two full cyberarms or cyberlegs installed, up to a maximum of +2 for both attributes (sorry, no super centipede-man builds). The downside to pushing your íware that hard, however, is that the strain is quite damaging. You lose three Physical Condition Monitor boxes per two full cyberarms and legs installed. Normally, every cyberlimb gives you one additional box, but with this quality, after two full limbs you end up with net one less box (i.e., Ė1 instead of +2)

Through the erratta it sounds like its suppose to be able to effect both base and Limb.

Now, at the beginning I could lose that, free up some nuyen for other stuff and build up the core strength and such for a later date of hitting that 10. Or do I have it wrong somewhere?

Yeah, I can change from blades to using spurs, swap out the martial arts for more hand to hand orientated, thats not a problem.

I picked up Astral Combat so that while being dual natured, I could maybe take on smaller spiritual threats while working on Charisma, but with cutting off the limbs to 3 and dropping attributes to 3 also, I can pick up some more charisma with the points at the begining. But we can always dash that part away and go with something different.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #3 on: (19:48:02/08-10-17) »
Redliner boosts both your Cyberlimbs and your remaining natural body, thereby increasing your physical limits and walk speed (wich cyberlimbs don't influence).
That means, if fully customized, you don't need to get your limbs above +2 Enhancement as +4 is the cap anyways and you get 2 from Redliner. Speaking of which, why have high (natural) strength and agility in the first place? You got synthetic limbs anyways, you want to impress the opposition with your sick abs?
You might want to buy one of the more expensive positive qualities later (yes, quite expensive indeed) and get cyber-compatibility on startup, that could save you some essence. Maybe even get only redliner with that, and restricted gear to get adapsin early, but might be harder to justify getting Singularity seeker later than it is for redliner.
Unless you have a really lenient Gamemaster, 'getting deltaware' might be rather difficult, as in there's maybe 10-15 clinics doing that worldwide catering to corporation celebrities and spec ops; I probably wouldn't plan with that ever happening. Still, whatever's fun for your group.
Also, as you use Karma to raise Magic: Don't you normally spend Karmas as the last step?
In which case you'd go down to 0, then at the end raise it again - that's a lot cheaper, but also kind of cheesy. Your call.  ;)
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

ShadowcatX

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #4 on: (19:48:45/08-10-17) »
With cyberlimbs your base attributes have nothing to do with them. You can have 1 agility and 1 strength and buff your limbs to 8 agility and 8 strength, then with redliner you end up with 3 agility and 3 strength base (like if you headbutt someone) and 10 each on your limbs (like if you punch, shoot, etc).

You don't need astral combat. You have a weapon focus and are dual natured. Walk up and punch them with your foci spur.

Unlimited, once Magic hits zero it is too late isn't it?
« Last Edit: (19:50:30/08-10-17) by ShadowcatX »

UnLimiTeD

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #5 on: (20:01:59/08-10-17) »
Nope.
Quote
If your Magic is reduced to zero, you can no longer use any skill
requiring the Magic attribute, even if your maximum
Rating is still greater than zero (but you can still raise the
attribute with Karma
and then get back to the spellslinging).
That's why it's so cheesy, taking low magic, loosing more than that in essence, then just casually raising it again for 5 Karma kind of rewards you for dumping on magic.
I wouldn't be overly critical of a GM who ruled that you'd need some Arcana skill and a spiritual idea of where your magic came from to get back out of that hole, but rules wise, that's fine.
Then again, a character like this would probably work decently with Karma Gen, and there you might just awaken after getting your ware (fluffwise, that is), and effectively only lose 5 Karma worth of Attributes.
Speaking of spurs, they might be a bit hard to get. They start at 12F, so in an Alphaware arm they are already above the regular limit. A handblade would still be doable, though.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Blazrath

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #6 on: (22:06:09/08-10-17) »
Redliner boosts both your Cyberlimbs and your remaining natural body, thereby increasing your physical limits and walk speed (wich cyberlimbs don't influence).
That means, if fully customized, you don't need to get your limbs above +2 Enhancement as +4 is the cap anyways and you get 2 from Redliner. Speaking of which, why have high (natural) strength and agility in the first place? You got synthetic limbs anyways, you want to impress the opposition with your sick abs?

Okay, thats what I wasn't getting, but I think(vaguely) get the concept. If you have a Strength 3 person, you get +2 from the limbs being replaced and can put in only +2 Enhancements so that the total would be 7?

You might want to buy one of the more expensive positive qualities later (yes, quite expensive indeed) and get cyber-compatibility on startup, that could save you some essence. Maybe even get only redliner with that, and restricted gear to get adapsin early, but might be harder to justify getting Singularity seeker later than it is for redliner.

Yeah, I toyed with the idea cause I did want Cyber Compatibility and agree with it. Honestly for the type of character I wanted to do, I feel like Singularity Seeker would be a better first choice and then go for redliner later. Mostly cause I wanted to toy with the idea of what would be nirvana for someone that is magically inclined, but also mechanically too.

Unless you have a really lenient Gamemaster, 'getting deltaware' might be rather difficult, as in there's maybe 10-15 clinics doing that worldwide catering to corporation celebrities and spec ops; I probably wouldn't plan with that ever happening. Still, whatever's fun for your group.
Also, as you use Karma to raise Magic: Don't you normally spend Karmas as the last step?
In which case you'd go down to 0, then at the end raise it again - that's a lot cheaper, but also kind of cheesy. Your call.  ;)

One can always hope. ;)

And damn, all the cheese... I don't know if I really want to go that far.
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ShadowcatX

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #7 on: (22:33:14/08-10-17) »
Your limbs have absolutely nothing to do with your character's base values. Their attributes are entirely based on what you pay for.

FST_Gemstar

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #8 on: (12:53:43/08-13-17) »
If the only adept power you are taking is astral perception, why not just be a Magic 1 aspected magician? you can astrally perceive for free, still use weapon foci, and get access to some other magical skills. 

FST_Gemstar

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #9 on: (14:24:54/08-13-17) »
and besides that... I'm not quite sure what you want out of a magic/cyber character like this? 

It just seems like a melee combat character, and a worse one than just a a pure cybered street sam or pure physical adept. 

You make a cyber-magic character to double dip on power sources, 'ware and magic. They can eat into the effectiveness of each other easy, so you have to have a clear goal in mind when doing so to build to make it worthwhile. 

That being said, you can make an aspected street sam that can buy up Magic 1 and say bond a weapon focus and use conterspelling, or make an throwing adept with a cyberarm, or an adept face with tailored pheremones, etc with minimal dips into magic and 'ware. Again though, going more hybrid requires some particular goals/concepts in mind that are difficult to make with other kinds of builds. 

UnLimiTeD

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #10 on: (15:10:18/08-13-17) »
Ware is generally better than magic when you want raw, simple combat power, specifically in the form of attributes.
Rating 2 or 3 Muscle Aug or Toner comes to mind.

In this case, I think it stems from not being used to the peculiarities of cyberlimbs.
If he'd reduce Strength and Agility by 2 each, he could improve either skills or resources or magic by one Level.
If he wanted to just be able to use Foci, he could pick FA's 'Aware', thereby starting with a Magic of 5.

Regarding combining cyber and magic, useful options include cybereyes for a mage - it's a lot easier to cast on things you can see - as well as smuggling compartments for fetishes etc.
Though I'd agree Astral Perception is probably not the best starting power. Then again, without it he can't really pick Astral Combat or Assensing as starting skills. Not that Astral Combat makes a lot of sense for an Adept.

@Blazrath: If you want to fight spirits or surprise mages, a cybered mage might indeed give you more options than an Adept. Like Projection, or casting direct spells.
And when planning your char, it might be just my experience, but while deltaware won't come by easily, an Innitiation is something quite doable. Level Arcana soon, and you can probably raise your magic faster than your ware grade.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Blazrath

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #11 on: (05:33:56/08-15-17) »
So, I played around with the idea of an Aware instead of an adept and this is what I came up with.

Priority Build
Attributes A
Skills B
Resources C
Magic D
Metatype E

Code Name: Freight Train

BOD 6/6
AGI 3/6
REA 4/6
STR 3/6
CHA 4/6
INT 4/6
LOG 3/6
WIL 5(6)/6
EDG 3/7
MAG 3

Limits
Phys 6
Mental 6
Social 7
Astral 7

Phys Con 14
Stun Con 11

Armor 15/12

Qualities
Aware(+4 Assensing)
Biocompatibility(Cyberware)
Cyber-Singularity Seeker
Quick Healer
Tough as Nails(Physical) 1

Dependent(Nuisance)
Dry Addict(Bliss)
Family Curse
In Debt 5
Poor Self Control(Combat Monster)

Skills(where I feel kinda iffy)
Unarmed Combat (9)+2 Cyber Implants
Intimidation (10)+2 Physical
Perception (9)
Running (8 )
Automatics (8 )+2 Cyber Implanted
Sneaking (8 )+2 Urban
Assensing (8 )
Cybertechnology (4)
Arcana (4)
Outdoors (5)
-Navigation (9)
-Survival (11)
-Tracking (9)

Martial Arts
Boxing(Brawler)
-Opposing Force(Block)
-Stagger

Astral Perception(Aware)

Obvious Full Arm(Left) Alphaware
Armor 2
Enhanced Agility +2
Enhanced Strength +2
Custom Submachine Gun
External Clip Port
62,400 Nuyen

Obvious Full Arm(Right) Standard
Armor 2
Enhanced Agility +2
Enhanced Strength +2
Spurs
52,000 Nuyen

4.4 Essence

Gear
Lined Coat
Ballistic Mask
-Customized
-Flare Compensation
-Image Link
-Smartlink
-Chemical Protection(4)
Clothing x2
Auctioneer Business Clothes

HK 227
-Cyberimplanted
-Spare Clip x4
-140 Normal Rounds
-30 Stik-n-Shok

Fake SIN (4)
Fake License (4) Firearms, Restricted Cyberware, Bodyguard
Certified Cred Stik Silver
Hermes Ikon
Glasses(4)
-Image Link
-Smart Link
-Low Light
Weapon Focus 3(Spurs)
Gas Mask
Survival Kit
Backpack(good)
Lighter
Pack of Cigarettes

1090 Nuyen left over

Thoughts on this?
« Last Edit: (18:43:18/08-15-17) by Blazrath »
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ShadowcatX

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #12 on: (07:26:23/08-15-17) »
This character suffers, severely, from not having a plan. I think you need to go back to the drawing board, decide what you want the character to do, and then decide how magic + cyberware can help you achieve that goal.

On optimization, you have a lot of problems. Your qualities are all subpar. You have high medium to high attributes all around but aren't making use of them. Normal rounds are for losers, get APDS for when you want to kill something.Your cyberlimbs are 3 (5) which is the definition of not worth it (this is the worst of it, at 6(9) the character would be much better). I don't know what your armor value is, but I'm guessing it is bad as well.

UnLimiTeD

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #13 on: (07:58:40/08-15-17) »
Actually, APDS being illegal can pose to be quite the problem at times. Of course, if you already have a spur, that doesn't really matter.
It would probably make sense to max WIL instead of Body, unless you plan on replacing the legs very soon, as 5 Body still means the same physical condition monitor, and it'd push the stun monitor to 12, + a later pain editor could grant another +1 so you'd get that next valuable uneven number with the legs.
Regarding the arms: Yeh, you should really go out of your way to customize them up to 6 agility.
Enhancements are easy to come by, and install later, but customization is not.
You could have one arm used, to be replaced later, with just some cheap enhancements, and trick out the other one to stay.
Soak Dice look decent, limits are very good.
I recommend adding a space to your skill listings so (8 ) doesn't become 8) all the time. Bloody smileys.
You should probably earmark the first 10 or so Karma on gaining some low level skill groups, the character is indeed not the most skilled atm.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Blazrath

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Re: An Attempt at Magic and Cyberware
« Reply #14 on: (19:20:42/08-15-17) »
Ha, sorry, guess forget a couple of things. I edited to put in the couple of skills I was missing and put in the armor values, the first being Lined Coat and Ballistic Mask for runs, the auctioneer more for when you have to dress a lil higher than your position. I might swap the lined coat for armored jacket then to bring it up to 18 armor and can then look into other stuff to add.

Personally, the first thought I had with the character was build a tank of sorts, with magic and cybernetics to support him while doing his thing, Its why when I first made him with Redliner, I built the characters strength and agility at 5 to comply with the rules on customization( If either of your limbís attributes are increased beyond your natural maximum for that attribute, you canít use the cyberlimb (so donít overdo it)) which did kinda confuse me when asked why bring you attributes up so high just to have your limbs chopped off and have your customization brought up to where they were. I thought that was the rule of customization, that you need to have the base attribute at the customization level to even use the limb, but if I'm wrong on that, please let me know.

So honestly then, if someone wanted to pull off a tankier role with wares and magic, is it worth it to begin with and which version would be best, a mage, an adept or an aware. Cause right now I can see the pros and cons of each, like with being Aware I just need to keep it at Magic 1 to keep my astral perception and can go more ham on the wares while mage I feel like is the opposite with minimal ware and high magic and adept being able to do a middle ground if done properly. When I first went adept I didn't want astral perception to be my only power. Hell I wanted to keep around 3 essence and build my magic up from there so that what I didn't augment from wares I could enhance with magic. Like, strength and agility could be covered by wares with access to armor plating and the adept parts could give reaction and astral armor to help on top of physical.

I don't know if any of that makes sense to ya, but thats where I'm coming from and help with either build techniques on that or telling me its just not viable is appreciated.
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