Author Topic: Rigger PAN  (Read 471 times)

grffnhwk

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Rigger PAN
« on: (21:54:11/05-11-17) »
I'm hoping you guys can help me with my rigger's PAN.  PAN design seems like something a Rigger/Decker has to do in 5e and it's so confusing sometimes.  Is this a bad idea while running passive?

[Matrix] <--> Maersk Spider [RCC] (w/ Sleaze 1 added running Smoke & Mirrors) <--> Other <Misc Devices> slaved and a <Transys Avalon> slaved (w/ Attack 3 Dongle, Program Carrier (Virtual Machine), Running (Agent 4, Paint Job) Erasing marks on anything that gets one)

Can the Agent do it's job being slaved to the RCC?  Can it defend drones slaved to the RCC as well?  Can it do other attack matrix actions for you through the RCC?

Rooks

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #1 on: (01:26:07/05-12-17) »
read as written when you slave a device to another device to the pan you use the master device's stats to defend and attack so if you get a mark on your rcc you cant erase it unless you have an attack attribute which means one or the other for sleaze attack on rccs

Jack_Spade

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #2 on: (02:52:58/05-12-17) »
Not necessarily.
The text actually says you use the better of the two values:

"Slaving gives a weaker device some added protection. Whenever a slaved device is called on to make a defense test, it uses either its own or its masterís rating for each rating in the test. For example, if your slaved smartgun is the target of a hackerís Brute Force action, it would use your Willpower or its Device Rating, and its Firewall or your commlinkís, whichever is higher in each instance"

And yes, your PAN works. The agent can form a persona independent of the machine it's running on, so it doesn't interfere with the master-slave relationship.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

grffnhwk

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #3 on: (11:33:48/05-12-17) »
Am I correct that Firewall is the only attribute that gets passed down to the slaves (if higher than their own), or can they benefit from the RCC Sleaze rating (the inherent 1, not S&M)?

Is it better to spend the same amount on a Liegelord instead?
Op1: (from memory)
Mod. Maersk Spider 34,000n
Add Matrix Attribute  (Sleaze) 8 Parts 2,000n
Mod Transys Avalon 5,000n
Add Module 2 parts 500n
Program Carrier (Virtual Machine) ????
Rating 4 Agent 8,000n
Paint Job Program 250
Attack Rating 2 Dongle 12,000n
Total: ~62,000n
Stats: Master 0/(1-6)/4/5
Stats: Agent Comm 4/0/6/6 for erasing marks
Stats: Drones/Slaves 0/0/?/5

Vs

Liegelord 66,000n
Stats: Master 0/0/5/6
Stats: No agent overwatch
Stats: Drones/Slaves 0/0/?/6

Is the loss of 1F and 3 slave slots worth the loss of a variable Sleaze rating using Smoke and Mirrors and having a Super-Siri helping me lose marks instead of rebooting?
« Last Edit: (11:57:51/05-12-17) by grffnhwk »

Jack_Spade

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #4 on: (02:50:01/05-13-17) »
You have to be aware that slaving only increases the slave's protection and not the master's. For that the master needs better stats than the slave
And yes, the text talks about defense stats being transfered. Sleaze can be a defense stat against detection.

The ideal setup is a master unit with high Firewall and a Sleaze rating with a slaved device running an Agent with an Attack rating. The slaved device can be lower rated than the master but not vice versa.

If you have enough drones in your PAN you could use the following trick:
Cybercombat is a skil that can be used untrained.
A swarm soft powered drone network gets huge limit increases and bonus dice. If all you want is getting rid of marks you could command the network to get rid of them as long as one drone has an attack stat.
Now you only need to run the agent on your RCC with the task of finding foreign MARKs on your devices and the order to tell the swarm to erase them.

Best of all, you don't need to turn all your units into a swarm but you are free to set up some into a swarm and leave the others operating normal.
So get that goldfish drone, mod it with an Attack stat, mod your RCC with a Sleaze rating and run Swarm soft
(Of course that limits the amount of programs you can run, but there is always a price to be paid)
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

grffnhwk

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #5 on: (13:11:55/05-13-17) »
You have to be aware that slaving only increases the slave's protection and not the master's. For that the master needs better stats than the slave
And yes, the text talks about defense stats being transfered. Sleaze can be a defense stat against detection.

The ideal setup is a master unit with high Firewall and a Sleaze rating with a slaved device running an Agent with an Attack rating. The slaved device can be lower rated than the master but not vice versa.

Sorry, I'm confused now.  You're saying that the master MUST have a higher Firewall than any slaved device?  From your prior post you made it sound like it MAY have a device with a higher Firewall and that it could use the higher of the Master's Firewall or it's own.  Is that not true?  So I'd have to downgrade the Transys to something with a Firewall 5 in the attached image?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

I apologize for all this.  PAN defense for a Rigger is a lot more difficult than for anyone else.  The RCC MUST be your Master so that you can actually use it for your drones, otherwise is just a big fat glorified redundant commlink behind a firewall comm because you can't slave your drones to a slave. <Sigh>

Edit: So Core Rulebook p233 supports your previous post, so I'm assuming I misunderstood your last post.
Quote
Whenever a slaved device is called on to make a defense test, it uses either its own or its masterís rating for each rating in the test. For example, if your slaved smartgun is the target of a hackerís Brute Force action, it would use your Willpower or its Device Rating, and its Firewall or your commlinkís, whichever is higher in each instance.
« Last Edit: (14:06:45/05-13-17) by grffnhwk »

Jack_Spade

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #6 on: (14:35:19/05-13-17) »
What I meant is: Your persona can only be formed on your master device without disrupting the PAN. Among other reasons that is why you want the master to have protection to be as high as possible.
Positive side effect: Your slaves don't need to be as well protected (What a great sentence to take out of context  ;) )

You don't have to downgrade your Transsys, it simply isn't protecting your master device against deckers slinging Data Spikes.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

grffnhwk

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #7 on: (21:09:30/05-14-17) »
Ok, I did misunderstand. :)  You've been super helpful, and I hope all this info will help others too.  I have a few more questions regarding slaving devices:

Savalette Guardian with External Smartlink and Suppressor Silencer - does this take 2 device slots to slave?  1 for the Smartlink and 1 for the Supressor Silencer if you're using it's wireless bonus?  I'm assuming yes, but I wanted to verify.   

CA Crockett EBR with External Smartlink, Imaging Scope, Bipod, and Silencer Suppressor is a 4 slave slot device if you want to make use of all the wireless boni?  It seems like 3x DR isn't really enough space for the amount of items that need wireless access.

grffnhwk

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #8 on: (23:44:50/05-17-17) »
So I decided to go into debt more and juggle around my gear to upgrade to a Liegelord.  The decision came from needing more program slots.  Going from a Maersk Spider to the Liegelord actually gave me TWO program slots because my Maersk couldn't offset the Noise from Smoke & Mirrors by itself, meaning I had to run Signal Scrub too.  The bump to firewall is an added bonus as well as 3 more slave slots.  I kept the Transys Avalon as Overwatch and my agent can do Search, Traces, and Perception for me too if need be.

I jotted down every piece of gear, augment, and weapon that has a wireless bonus.  Then I took only the legal stuff, matched the normal locations for those things to where on my character I'm storing my not so legal stuff, and wrapped the icons so even when they're scanning AR, the Cybereyes icon doesn't appear to be a survival knife on your face.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

I'm pretty sure I'm done with my Rigger's PAN now, unless further comments show I've done something wrong or stupid. :)

Rooks

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #9 on: (02:52:35/05-19-17) »
For complete and utter brokeness:

Transys Maid x15 120000
Vulcan Liegelord   66000
Modify Add attribute Sleaze 2000

Smoke n Mirrors 250

Agent 4 8000
Swarm 600

Autosoft Stealth Transys Maid 4   2000
Autosoft Colt M34 Targeting 4   2000



now each drone can have 2 auto softs (pilot rating / 2 round up pilot is 4 so 2)
and because swarm means you use the highest rating of the autosoft regardless of where its loaded
Maneuvering Transys Maid 4   2000
Electronic Warfare 4   2000

Academic Knowledge (any single knowledge)
Chemistry (Restricted)
Demolitions (Restricted)
Electronic Warfare (Restricted)
First Aid
Hardware
Instruction
Language (any single language)
Lockpicking (Restricted)
Mechanic (any single Mechanic skill)
Medicine (Restricted)
Melee (as Targeting, but for a specific melee combat
weapon)
Navigation
Performance (any single perform skill. Song-a-Mat
evolves!)
Professional Knowledge (any single knowledge)

15 auto softs so even if at one each per drone at rating 4 30000

so for about 250k you got an army of drones that have about 22 dice pool to do any of those skills and an agent that can hack the matrix for you have fun winning shadowrun
« Last Edit: (02:54:35/05-19-17) by Rooks »

grffnhwk

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Re: Rigger PAN
« Reply #10 on: (10:42:41/05-19-17) »
Give them a mechanic facilty so they can manufacture new drones... almost have replicators.

But they still couldn't do any face interactions and it just doesn't seem like it would be much fun.  :)

Edit: If you have a high matrix defense, you could be a real jerk, and share lockdown and biofeedback with your drones.  I'm being really paranoid about deckers. :)  My plan was to have my 'squito swarm track down the enemy rigger/decker and dose them with Neurostun VII in addition to my passive-ish defenses.
« Last Edit: (11:06:13/05-19-17) by grffnhwk »