Shadowrun

Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: Frankie the Fomori on (15:10:37/07-17-12)

Title: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (15:10:37/07-17-12)
So I picked it up and have rifled through it a couple time quickly. First glance and I feel so disappointed. I will run through the entire book and make sure I am not missing anything that I thought this book would contain. Hoping that I will retract this first reaction after looking more closely at the contents.  Have a great day Drew


Edit one: looked over the chapters of magic and matrix and I am impressed with these sections well written and stuff like grounding is back in the game.

The stuff that I am not happy with comes from PC creation guidelines. Or the lack of them:( there is a smallish paragraph that pretty much says use SR4a and there is no Technomancers. Nothing is said about Race types, qualities, if the starting funds are larger or not. Even when I am not playing I have always kept up with the game and it's story line. But there could be massive numbers of players and GM's only knowing about the current arc. So Joe or Jane smith could go about make a changeling street Sam and try to sit down at the game table. Where I would know that they came with the comet and restrict myself normally. This is information I feel should have been in the book.

Next negative review is on the gear section. I thought Bioware was harder to get and more expensive in 2050 then cyberware. Yet we have WR 3 for 500k and synaptic accelerators level 3 for 300k. And availability of 6R for the bio level 3 and 8R for the WR3. Supra thyroid is 5K more expensive at 50K and availability of 8F. 

My last and biggest disappointment is kind of my own fault. I thought when they dropped all those big named runners in the advertisements for this that there would be a write up and some stats for them. This Alone would have made it worth the price, but no. There is a little section in Seattle over view that says a little bit about these runners.

I wish I had not spent money on it. hope other players and GM's  can give me insights on this material that I am missing.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: CanRay on (15:52:51/07-17-12)
Why?   :'(
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (16:01:37/07-17-12)
Sorry CanRay, wrote my review as an edit. I guess I could say see above. Have a great day, Drew
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (17:28:28/07-17-12)
Reading more of the product: first fiction is awesome. Gives you a perfect taste of a shadow team. Left me wanting to read more of this group:)

Love seeing the profezzer make some shadow talk. One of my favorit novels in SR is changeling.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (22:17:11/07-17-12)
I have figures out what bugs me about the cyber/bio sections of the gear page. They have imported the costs strait from SR1(at least the cyber, I do not have the book with Bio costs on my phone). This creates a massive disparity between magicians and adepts compared to other archetypes. Street Sam, deckers and riggers had a 1,000,000• to work with in 1st. Now we have the same costs for 1/4 of funds a PC can draw on. No where in the book addresses this issue. Can I get some feed back on how to adjust this? And if possible can somthing official be put out? Even the archetypes in the book have WR 2 (alpha) which would cost them 330,00• which is much more then a PC is allowed at Chgen!
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (22:59:55/07-17-12)
I have figures out what bugs me about the cyber/bio sections of the gear page. They have imported the costs strait from SR1(at least the cyber, I do not have the book with Bio costs on my phone). This creates a massive disparity between magicians and adepts compared to other archetypes. Street Sam, deckers and riggers had a 1,000,000• to work with in 1st. Now we have the same costs for 1/4 of funds a PC can draw on. No where in the book addresses this issue. Can I get some feed back on how to adjust this? And if possible can somthing official be put out? Even the archetypes in the book have WR 2 (alpha) which would cost them 330,00• which is much more then a PC is allowed at Chgen!

That's about the only issue I had with the book. I definitely feel that the prices should have been adjusted to compensate for the lowered amount of resources that can be acquired in creation. I was kinda scandalized by the cyberdeck prices (it's been a while and I'd forgotten just how obscene those prices were).
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mara on (01:00:04/07-18-12)
Honestly? If I were to do something set then, I would "fix" it by making each BP worth 20K nuyen. You are right, there
should have been something saying that, and listing which qualities would be inappropriate for this time frame.

Things I liked on my initial run through: Grounding in, and even a discussion on why it went away. Old School Matrix topology
explained, Shamans get Mentor Spirit free, and so many Shadowtalkers I remember from the day getting to speak again.

The big thing I don't like? They didn't try and take the old 1st and 2nd Edition concept art and redo it in the modern
style. Now, I can sort of understand that, as, frankly, the 1st and 2nd Editions were decidedly more Human-centric
as opposed to Meta-centric, and there were no ork or troll archetypes. However, I would rather have seen an update
in the look of the 2nd Edition Former Wage Mage then the orkess they gave us as her in this version. I do, however, like
the change to the Detective. I am also disappointed in the archetypes they did that did not have art. I would also have
appreciated if they had put the BP allocation like they did in SR4A. Other nit-pick is that the shadowtalk did not have
time/date stamps. This made The Smiling Bandit less special, as he didn't have his time/date stamp replaced. :(

While it may seem that, given my larger text block of what I didn't like, that I have a negative impression on the book.
However, overall, I liked it. My only complaints are really nit-picks(like Synaptic Accelerator basicly being Synaptic Booster,
and Boosted Reflexes not being compatible with it). My assessment is that some sections seemed rushed(like the
very loose chargen guidelines).

So, I give it a positive: 7/10 shot up lone star cars
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (01:03:41/07-18-12)
Well, to be fair, Boosted Reflexes were never compatible with anything, and they even prevented one from ever being able to get Wired Reflexes and above back in the day. It appears the latter has been removed, so there's an improvement to that one.

As for Grounding, I think I'm gonna ignore the discussion on why it went away and incorporate it in the future.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: DarkLloyd on (01:12:27/07-18-12)
As for Grounding, I think I'm gonna ignore the discussion on why it went away and incorporate it in the future.

I'm going to do the same. When I get a DTF book to read that is.

Also. Are domains back for spirits? Because I will SO port that back in too. Universal Magic theory my ass.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (01:59:37/07-18-12)
Oh yeah, I know that I'll be incorporating the new Dikote stuff into future games no matter what time frame I set them in.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mirikon on (05:59:37/07-18-12)
Reading through the Chicago section now. I know it is set in 2050, but the insect analogies in the 'Labor-hoods' section makes me twinge a bit. And later on, talking about the Spire, and you see this comment:
Quote
> Thereís something weird on the upper floors. I swear Iíve seen things flying
to and from the tip of the screw.
> EyeSpire
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Patrick Goodman on (07:29:26/07-18-12)
Also. Are domains back for spirits? Because I will SO port that back in too. Universal Magic theory my ass.
Yup.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: hobgoblin on (08:58:07/07-18-12)
The stuff that I am not happy with comes from PC creation guidelines. Or the lack of them:( there is a smallish paragraph that pretty much says use SR4a and there is no Technomancers. Nothing is said about Race types, qualities, if the starting funds are larger or not. Even when I am not playing I have always kept up with the game and it's story line. But there could be massive numbers of players and GM's only knowing about the current arc. So Joe or Jane smith could go about make a changeling street Sam and try to sit down at the game table. Where I would know that they came with the comet and restrict myself normally. This is information I feel should have been in the book.
Dunno. Applying the SR4a sourcebooks to this directly would be troublesome at best, and last time i checked changelings and such are not in SR4a directly.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mara on (09:14:22/07-18-12)
Dunno. Applying the SR4a sourcebooks to this directly would be troublesome at best, and last time i checked changelings and such are not in SR4a directly.

Runner's Companion, though you are correct that they are not in the SR4A BBB.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Wakshaani on (09:42:26/07-18-12)
Reading through the Chicago section now. I know it is set in 2050, but the insect analogies in the 'Labor-hoods' section makes me twinge a bit. And later on, talking about the Spire, and you see this comment:
Quote
> Thereís something weird on the upper floors. I swear Iíve seen things flying
to and from the tip of the screw.
> EyeSpire

I have to say, the bit at the end with a missing runner and his ally, then, "No, I'm fine, just lost contact for a while. Wheels went somewhere else to find work." ... I had to cackle. 
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (10:16:34/07-18-12)
The stuff that I am not happy with comes from PC creation guidelines. Or the lack of them:( there is a smallish paragraph that pretty much says use SR4a and there is no Technomancers. Nothing is said about Race types, qualities, if the starting funds are larger or not. Even when I am not playing I have always kept up with the game and it's story line. But there could be massive numbers of players and GM's only knowing about the current arc. So Joe or Jane smith could go about make a changeling street Sam and try to sit down at the game table. Where I would know that they came with the comet and restrict myself normally. This is information I feel should have been in the book.
Dunno. Applying the SR4a sourcebooks to this directly would be troublesome at best, and last time i checked changelings and such are not in SR4a directly.

Thing is you will find SR4a Sourcebook qualities on there Archtypes. So I know that the intent was to include some of all the content published to date.

I think I have not been clear on the positive sides of the book, it is well written. It has great new fluff for the three cities found inside (instead of allot of information from original sourcebooks creeping back inside). Fiction's are great reads, leaving me hoping novel will follow regarding the people involved.

 My one massive hick up is that without some way to balance the money issue for the other Archtypes you could not sit down at a table with this product and SR4a and run a game.  After creating a PC with expanded funds (1,000,000) I found you get a Street Sam who is to strong. spending 688K (I do not think I added the eyes ears and link to this) he ends up with inhancements of Muscle Toner and augmentation level 4 (w/ restricted gearx2), Synaptic booster level 3, pain editor, supra thyroid gland, Dermal plating level 3 [Alpha] (no need for Restricted gear for these), cyber eyes and ears, Smart link. This is so much more then what you would get in 2072...... so I am not sure what to do?

PS: please excuse spelling, need to run of to Doc appointment and did not have time to spell check in word.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: FastJack on (10:57:46/07-18-12)
*sniff*

Hatchetman's in the book.

I promised myself I wouldn't cry.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mara on (11:48:07/07-18-12)
*sniff*

Hatchetman's in the book.

I promised myself I wouldn't cry.

So is Matador.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mirikon on (12:04:59/07-18-12)
*sniff*

Hatchetman's in the book.

I promised myself I wouldn't cry.

So is Matador.
And once again, I think a 'Fallen Heroes' book in the style of Street Legends would be AWESOME!
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (13:23:40/07-18-12)
The stuff that I am not happy with comes from PC creation guidelines. Or the lack of them:( there is a smallish paragraph that pretty much says use SR4a and there is no Technomancers. Nothing is said about Race types, qualities, if the starting funds are larger or not. Even when I am not playing I have always kept up with the game and it's story line. But there could be massive numbers of players and GM's only knowing about the current arc. So Joe or Jane smith could go about make a changeling street Sam and try to sit down at the game table. Where I would know that they came with the comet and restrict myself normally. This is information I feel should have been in the book.
Dunno. Applying the SR4a sourcebooks to this directly would be troublesome at best, and last time i checked changelings and such are not in SR4a directly.

Thing is you will find SR4a Sourcebook qualities on there Archtypes. So I know that the intent was to include some of all the content published to date.

I think I have not been clear on the positive sides of the book, it is well written. It has great new fluff for the three cities found inside (instead of allot of information from original sourcebooks creeping back inside). Fiction's are great reads, leaving me hoping novel will follow regarding the people involved.

 My one massive hick up is that without some way to balance the money issue for the other Archtypes you could not sit down at a table with this product and SR4a and run a game.  After creating a PC with expanded funds (1,000,000) I found you get a Street Sam who is to strong. spending 688K (I do not think I added the eyes ears and link to this) he ends up with inhancements of Muscle Toner and augmentation level 4 (w/ restricted gearx2), Synaptic booster level 3, pain editor, supra thyroid gland, Dermal plating level 3 [Alpha] (no need for Restricted gear for these), cyber eyes and ears, Smart link. This is so much more then what you would get in 2072...... so I am not sure what to do?

PS: please excuse spelling, need to run of to Doc appointment and did not have time to spell check in word.

From my experiences, the Street Sam was ahead of the curve early on back in third, but once the karma started rolling in, the Awakened peeps started catching up. Personally, I don't have a problem with that (I did Street Sam and Mage back then.)

As to the Suprathyroid, I do believe that I'm going to start ruling the availability across the board with respect to time frame as the same as in the 2050 book, but I feel 20F is ludicrous for it.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mystic on (16:34:12/07-18-12)
*sniff*

Hatchetman's in the book.

I promised myself I wouldn't cry.

*sniff*

Hatchetman's in the book.

I promised myself I wouldn't cry.

So is Matador.

I can't say how much fun I had writing them in that section. I just hope I did them justice.  :)
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mirikon on (16:47:15/07-18-12)
You did. Though I will second one of the earlier poster's comment about wishing the old Shadowland format was there. Seeing the Laughing Man without that "HA! Fragging HA!" line just doesn't have the same oomph.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mystic on (17:02:19/07-18-12)
You did. Though I will second one of the earlier poster's comment about wishing the old Shadowland format was there. Seeing the Laughing Man without that "HA! Fragging HA!" line just doesn't have the same oomph.

My origional draft did have the old time-date stamps, but I think they were taken out to save the sanity of the editors, proofers, and the layout people.  8)
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: CanRay on (17:40:40/07-18-12)
Sanity's overrated.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Black on (19:36:45/07-18-12)
Sanity is a one trick pony. Give me insanity any day of the week. Everyday is an adventure!

Still reading the book, absorbing it all. Need to consider impacts to my current 2050 game.
Great opening fiction!
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: raggedhalo on (19:40:25/07-18-12)
Since we're being old-school - is the Availability limit for starting gear back to 6 like it was in the old days?  If so, that reduced amount of starting money is suddenly less of a problem  ;)
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (20:11:05/07-18-12)
Since we're being old-school - is the Availability limit for starting gear back to 6 like it was in the old days?  If so, that reduced amount of starting money is suddenly less of a problem  ;)

Last time I looked at my core book for third, the availability limit was the same as fourth. Are you saying it was lower in 1 and 2?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (20:54:40/07-18-12)
As remarked by JHardy on the front page.

"Itís a different environment, and it calls for different balancing of your skills, attributes, and gear. Remember that the NPCs you face will be functioning with the same limits."

So in short there is no fix. I feel so many bitter thoughts about this, but the freelancers worked so hard to put out so many beautiful pieces of work that this book contains. I do not want to cheapen there good work with a negative attitude.

 So certain archetypes Could start out with a negative curve, we as fans can come up with somthing that helps other players and GM's not have to worry over it. We can put it in a PDF format here or Over on dumpshock so everyone can have access.

Now I know 1,000,000 is to much, hell 600k+ seems to much. But there has to be a balance of funds? Also we can make a list of positive and negative qualities that are appropriate for this time period? Hope everyone has a good day, I have decided I am going to enjoy the hell out of this product.

Had a quick thought, I will pull apart there archetypes and see how many BP they are and the amount of funds they use. This could lead us to a happy medium?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Teutonic Overlord on (22:02:41/07-18-12)
Since we're being old-school - is the Availability limit for starting gear back to 6 like it was in the old days?  If so, that reduced amount of starting money is suddenly less of a problem  ;)

Last time I looked at my core book for third, the availability limit was the same as fourth. Are you saying it was lower in 1 and 2?

I just pulled out my 1st ed book and there was no such thing as availability.  2nd has availability, but, per page 46, availability is ignored during character creation.  The limit was that no gear could have a rating higher than 6.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (22:21:45/07-18-12)
Since we're being old-school - is the Availability limit for starting gear back to 6 like it was in the old days?  If so, that reduced amount of starting money is suddenly less of a problem  ;)

Last time I looked at my core book for third, the availability limit was the same as fourth. Are you saying it was lower in 1 and 2?

I just pulled out my 1st ed book and there was no such thing as availability.  2nd has availability, but, per page 46, availability is ignored during character creation.  The limit was that no gear could have a rating higher than 6.

Hmm, seeing that little tidbit about 2nd edition explains why my first SR GM didn't even bother mentioning availability to me when I set up my first character even though it was in 3rd. He must've been used to 2nd.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Teutonic Overlord on (22:33:13/07-18-12)
The stuff that I am not happy with comes from PC creation guidelines. Or the lack of them:( there is a smallish paragraph that pretty much says use SR4a and there is no Technomancers. Nothing is said about Race types, qualities, if the starting funds are larger or not. Even when I am not playing I have always kept up with the game and it's story line. But there could be massive numbers of players and GM's only knowing about the current arc. So Joe or Jane smith could go about make a changeling street Sam and try to sit down at the game table. Where I would know that they came with the comet and restrict myself normally. This is information I feel should have been in the book.
Dunno. Applying the SR4a sourcebooks to this directly would be troublesome at best, and last time i checked changelings and such are not in SR4a directly.

Thing is you will find SR4a Sourcebook qualities on there Archtypes. So I know that the intent was to include some of all the content published to date.

I think I have not been clear on the positive sides of the book, it is well written. It has great new fluff for the three cities found inside (instead of allot of information from original sourcebooks creeping back inside). Fiction's are great reads, leaving me hoping novel will follow regarding the people involved.

 My one massive hick up is that without some way to balance the money issue for the other Archtypes you could not sit down at a table with this product and SR4a and run a game.  After creating a PC with expanded funds (1,000,000) I found you get a Street Sam who is to strong. spending 688K (I do not think I added the eyes ears and link to this) he ends up with inhancements of Muscle Toner and augmentation level 4 (w/ restricted gearx2), Synaptic booster level 3, pain editor, supra thyroid gland, Dermal plating level 3 [Alpha] (no need for Restricted gear for these), cyber eyes and ears, Smart link. This is so much more then what you would get in 2072...... so I am not sure what to do?

PS: please excuse spelling, need to run of to Doc appointment and did not have time to spell check in word.

I just ran the numbers real quick with SR1 SB and Shadowtech...you can get all that for 609k...but you would have exceeded your Body Index if you were a human due to all to Bioware...also synaptic boosters are max of lvl 2 in SR1.  Back then we had essence and body index.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (01:26:34/07-19-12)
Okay, I pulled apart the Street Sam Tonight: All up he was 356BP without Resources(8/13 Archetypes had edge. Street Sam did not so I averaged the combat types that had edge and it came to three). His gear came out to 478,000. If i got his Edge right it comes out to 10,863.63 per BP. Now i will run 1 Edge through 5 Edge to see if any of them come out to a whole number.

Edge 1: 7,468.75 per BP (64 BP)
Edge 2: 8,851.85 (54 BP)
Edge 3: 10,863.63 (44 BP)
Edge 4: 14,058.82 (34BP)
Edge 5: 19,916.66 (24BP)

Now Rounding 480K
Edge 1: 7,500 per BP (64 BP)
Edge 2: 8,888.88 (54 BP)
Edge 3: 10,909.09(44 BP)
Edge 4: 14,117.64 (34BP)
Edge 5: 20K per BP (24BP)

Edit: Will need add 30K because i forgot to add lifestyle :(
Any feedback?

I will work up another Archtype another day. Good night.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mara on (04:15:02/07-19-12)
I am confused, Frankie...why are you calculating in Edge to determine things? I would think the BP for money would be a flat
amount?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (10:48:01/07-19-12)
I tried to figure out total BP spent on the Whole PC. Then I would have a ball park figure of BP used on gear.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: DarkLloyd on (10:50:51/07-19-12)
yeah. can we just get the flat numbers?

Also to address the money problem, just double the amount of cash allowed in chargen. (what I will do. this version recreates the sammie allocating more resources to cash as it east up more BP's)
Or keep the max points you can spend on resources at 50 but double the amount you get for each point.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mara on (11:16:09/07-19-12)
I tried to figure out total BP spent on the Whole PC. Then I would have a ball park figure of BP used on gear.

That does not explain the fractional numbers for the Edge.
Frankly, I think if you calculate everything but the money BP, then you can figure out how many BP were used for the
money, and how much money was spent, and thus divide the amounts...

I do not see how Edge, which, like any other attribute, is 10 BP per point...there is no fractional cost per point of Edge.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Frankie the Fomori on (11:47:40/07-19-12)
I think I was not clear in how I wrote the thing down...it was late last night.

There was no Edge given in the Archetype I had to assume how much BP was spent on it. I was just covering all my bases with Edge ATT from 1 through 5 would leave that amount of BP available for resources left over. I think what I did last night just made thing a bit more confusing :(.

I think my Final choice was to go with 10K per BP for resources. It allows for a strong Street Sam, the Rigger can afford vehicles and Drones, and the Decker starts out with a decent Deck. 
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mšx on (17:09:46/07-22-12)
The stuff that I am not happy with comes from PC creation guidelines. Or the lack of them:( there is a smallish paragraph that pretty much says use SR4a and there is no Technomancers. Nothing is said about Race types, qualities, if the starting funds are larger or not. Even when I am not playing I have always kept up with the game and it's story line. But there could be massive numbers of players and GM's only knowing about the current arc. So Joe or Jane smith could go about make a changeling street Sam and try to sit down at the game table. Where I would know that they came with the comet and restrict myself normally. This is information I feel should have been in the book.
Dunno. Applying the SR4a sourcebooks to this directly would be troublesome at best, and last time i checked changelings and such are not in SR4a directly.
Except the book itself contains references to multiple sourcebooks allready, so their definedly ment to go together.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: wylie on (13:03:33/07-24-12)
the archtypes were built with SR4A rules, not 1st Ed.
I worked 2 characters through Chummers, and they balanced out pretty close to the SR 2050.

so, the 10,000 nuyen per point is wrong.
quote from the PDF:
A Note on Characters
If you are creating a new character for use in
Shadowrun 2050, in general the SR4A rules will serve
you well. Use only the gear in this book, remember
that technomancers donít exist yet, and also note the
available programs and utilities in the Matrix chapter.
If you want to bring your existing character into the
2050 setting, remember that time-travel does not
exist in the Sixth World, so youíll be bending the laws
of reality to do so. But if you must call on the power
of house rules to make the shift, use the latter portion
of this book to adjust your characterís gear, magic
tradition, and program load-out appropriately. Note,
though, that if your character is a technomancer and
attempts to play in 2050, they disappear in a puff of
smoke. Even house rules can only do so much.

I would suggest that you use the SR 2050 as a guide on what is and is not avaible.

on the edge, I am not sure. using the writeups as a guide, as some do have edge and others are not listed, humans start with 3 edge and trolls, orks, dwaves, and elves start with 2 edge, unless other wise noted. I see the burned out mage has 5 (3), odd

just make a character as if in 2070, using the equipment and magic limits in SR 2050. once play starts, you have to deal with 2050 prices and avaibilty

anyone got a better idea?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (13:07:15/07-24-12)
the archtypes were built with SR4A rules, not 1st Ed.
I worked 2 characters through Chummers, and they balanced out pretty close to the SR 2050.

so, the 10,000 nuyen per point is wrong.
quote from the PDF:
A Note on Characters
If you are creating a new character for use in
Shadowrun 2050, in general the SR4A rules will serve
you well. Use only the gear in this book, remember
that technomancers donít exist yet, and also note the
available programs and utilities in the Matrix chapter.
If you want to bring your existing character into the
2050 setting, remember that time-travel does not
exist in the Sixth World, so youíll be bending the laws
of reality to do so. But if you must call on the power
of house rules to make the shift, use the latter portion
of this book to adjust your characterís gear, magic
tradition, and program load-out appropriately. Note,
though, that if your character is a technomancer and
attempts to play in 2050, they disappear in a puff of
smoke. Even house rules can only do so much.

I would suggest that you use the SR 2050 as a guide on what is and is not avaible.

on the edge, I am not sure. using the writeups as a guide, as some do have edge and others are not listed, humans start with 3 edge and trolls, orks, dwaves, and elves start with 2 edge, unless other wise noted. I see the burned out mage has 5 (3), odd

just make a character as if in 2070, using the equipment and magic limits in SR 2050. once play starts, you have to deal with 2050 prices and avaibilty

anyone got a better idea?

The additional nuyen is needed, since when building characters for 2050 use, you use the prices of gear found in that book (otherwise the prices would not be there). Using the SR4A rules is for the rest of the character (qualities, attributes, skills, contacts, etc.).
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mason on (13:09:35/07-24-12)
The additional nuyen is needed only if you want to have stronger street samurai and deckers, and better foci for magical types. Bear in mind that nuyen rewards in the 2050s were outrageous, comparatively speaking.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (13:12:24/07-24-12)
The additional nuyen is needed only if you want to have stronger street samurai and deckers, and better foci for magical types. Bear in mind that nuyen rewards in the 2050s were outrageous, comparatively speaking.

Also needed if some play the archetypes in the 2050 book, or do you like the idea of the ones playing the archetypes having gear and implants valued at almost double what the scratch built characters have?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: wylie on (13:49:30/07-24-12)
I just bet that when the archtypes were created, they were created using 2070 prices
but that is my opinion

until we can get a Dev's word in here, its guess work on what they were thinking when they put the book together
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mason on (14:22:39/07-24-12)
The additional nuyen is needed only if you want to have stronger street samurai and deckers, and better foci for magical types. Bear in mind that nuyen rewards in the 2050s were outrageous, comparatively speaking.

Also needed if some play the archetypes in the 2050 book, or do you like the idea of the ones playing the archetypes having gear and implants valued at almost double what the scratch built characters have?

I haven't read the archetypes yet, but it sounds like a mistake the writers made.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (14:27:24/07-24-12)
The additional nuyen is needed only if you want to have stronger street samurai and deckers, and better foci for magical types. Bear in mind that nuyen rewards in the 2050s were outrageous, comparatively speaking.

Also needed if some play the archetypes in the 2050 book, or do you like the idea of the ones playing the archetypes having gear and implants valued at almost double what the scratch built characters have?

Pay particular attention to the Street Samurai with its Alpha ware Wired Reflexes 2. That alone using the prices in the 2050 book is more than the normal SR4A resource maximum.
I haven't read the archetypes yet, but it sounds like a mistake the writers made.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Shady Jack on (12:00:17/07-31-12)
so uh this might be a stupid question but does the 2050 book introduce a new character sheet?      if so can some one post it?     i am waiting till print to buy the book but i am definitly getting it.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: PeterSmith on (12:02:31/07-31-12)
No new character sheet in 2050.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Teknodragon on (13:57:50/08-07-12)
Just finished going through it early this morning. Some of the Shadowtalk gave me the chills-- like watching the remake of a movie I've heard old-timers talk about. I also feel rewarded for having soaked up as much about the history of the setting as I've been able to so I could spot a lot of it.

Incidentally, I never was able to play SR until the 4A came out and I found a group.

I actually like the Matrix setting of this far better than the 2073 'everybody's special, so nobody's special' wireless blandness. Actually _needing_ to jack in to truly do things in the Matrix, or to rig properly makes me quite happy.

I'm a little surprised there wasn't a quick run-down of what is/isn't available from other sourcebooks; Changelings didn't happen 'til YotC in 2063, ferex.


My GM is going to devour this, take some of his old adventures and run 'em, so I better slot in, sit down, and hold on, 'cause this is going to be one hellacious ride. :)
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Wakshaani on (17:16:40/08-07-12)
The gear section slays me. I owe CanRay dinner sometime. :)

Anything in the Shadowtalk stand out in particular for you?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: CanRay on (01:46:46/08-08-12)
The gear section slays me. I owe CanRay dinner sometime. :)
I'll take the dinner, but I wrote The Matrix Chapter.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Teknodragon on (03:06:44/08-08-12)
The gear section slays me. I owe CanRay dinner sometime. :)
I'll take the dinner, but I wrote The Matrix Chapter.

You wrote that piece of awesome? Kudos and +1, omae.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: CanRay on (11:04:28/08-08-12)
You wrote that piece of awesome? Kudos and +1, omae.
Glad you think so.  :)
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: All4BigGuns on (12:28:43/08-08-12)
You wrote that piece of awesome? Kudos and +1, omae.
Glad you think so.  :)

Again, you did do an awesome job. Though, is there any word on that stuff that accidentally ended up not making it?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: CanRay on (15:32:38/08-08-12)
Again, you did do an awesome job. Though, is there any word on that stuff that accidentally ended up not making it?
We'll see how badly beaten up I am at GenCon.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: carmachu on (09:13:12/08-15-12)
Silly question- is the print version of the book available now or is it still just PDF and pre-order for the book? If not, when is the print version available?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: AJCarrington on (06:40:12/08-16-12)
I don't think the formal street date has been released, though there will be copies available at GenCon.  It wasn't listed as part of their formal August releases, but am guessing September.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: CanRay on (11:20:34/08-20-12)
There WERE copies at GenCon.  At least until one Freelancer showed up and carried as many away as his broken arm allowed...
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: AJCarrington on (11:36:03/08-20-12)
 ;D
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: FastJack on (14:00:09/08-20-12)
There WERE copies at GenCon.  At least until one Freelancer showed up and carried as many away as his broken arm allowed...
'Twas a beautiful hardcover book too... And don't forget Elven Blood!
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: jonathanc on (14:36:18/10-04-12)
There is mention in the book that protection from acid rain and heavy smog is necessary, but no mechanics that I can see. How would you suggest treating these factors?
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Mara on (23:45:57/10-04-12)
There is mention in the book that protection from acid rain and heavy smog is necessary, but no mechanics that I can see. How would you suggest treating these factors?

Part of Lifestyle expenses, same as I always treated them.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Tagz on (11:17:44/10-07-12)
Alright, I've had my hardcopy for about a week and poured through it.  I like it a lot, but have some comments/questions.

First off, the fiction and shadowtalk is great.  Occasionally it seems like it overused the foreshadowing irony joke a bit, but otherwise very good.  Awesome to see the names.

Second, the editing could have been better.  I know, grammer/spelling/editing mistakes happen, but there  are quite a few in this one.  The whole book has a very rushed feeling.  Looking at some of my other books (6WA, GC, etc), this sadly is becoming a trend.  For the most part it's just an annoyance that made me feel the book cost just a little too much (for 45$ I kinda expect better proofing).

The differences between different magical traditions are awesome.  Especially fun are the Shamanistic domains and Wuxing elemental casting.  There's always a player in my group that prefers elemental spells to direct spells and he'll eat this up.

Lots of the sample characters are missing an Edge stat.

Grounding is back.  Cool.  The fact that the spell must be physical, the drain is physical, and the Force/Magic of the target is a negative modifier seems like in fourth edition might be a good balancer.  What I really like about this is that it brings back spells like Clout and Blast.  Normally those are just Stunbolt and Stunball at higher drain that can effect objects like drones and cars.... except drones and cars don't suffer stun damage.  So they're just Stunbolt and Stunball with a little more drain.
But with Grounding, Stunbolt and Stunball can't ground because they are mana spells.  Clout and Blast can be Grounded.  I like this because this is a rules addition that gives more utility to existing things instead of replace things or obsolescence.

Matrix section is pretty awesome too, but useful information is mixed in in sort of a difficult to find way.  I love memory limits, Sys Ops, and simple node topography that looks like a flowchart.
Interesting that to make nobody script kiddies you had to make everyone a more limited technomancer, but it works.  I may consider bringing this to my regular games.
I am annoyed that the items that appear in the Matrix section don't have a place in the gear charts in the gear section.  It would be nice to have program costs listed in a easy to find chart rather then buried in text.  The decks, terms, and luggage do have nice charts to look at so they aren't that hard to find, but a place in the back would have been nice.

Chipjacks Headmemory, HeadTelephone, yes.  I have a softspot for old, outdated cyber on NPCs, some of these things will show up in my regular games.  Have to say though, Voice Modulator belongs in Headware, not Bodyware.  Pretty sure VCR does too.  Not a big deal, makes no mechanical difference, but it's the wrong chart if you ask me.

Cyber is way more expensive, and I'm ok with that.  What I'm not so cool with is how much Bioware is around, how cheap it is compared to Cyber, and how easily available it is.  Compare Wired 3 and Synaptic 3:
Wired 3:  Cost 500,000   5Ess   8R
Synaptic 3:  Cost 300,000   1.5Ess   6R
I get that there are supposed to be some items that are more optimal then others, but this is absurd.  Wired has a 500% increase in cost, Synaptic only 125%.  It's cheaper, better on essence, and easier to find.  All this, despite that in the 4th edition book (setting 2070's, 20 years later) Bioware is described as SOTA.  If I run a 2050's game then I'm going to have to modify the nearly the whole bioware chart's cost and availability.

The part that really gets me about the Wired/Synaptic thing is that Wired Reflexes are such a central theme of the game.  Such a staple to the Street Sam.  But because of the disparity here, it makes no real sense to invest in Wires.  Sure, at rating 1 there's enough of a cost difference to make it a real choice, but at rating 2 it's a short hop to the cost of Synaptic, so go Synaptic and save the essence.  No sense at all in getting a better grade of Wires, it'll cost more and still be higher essence then Synaptic.  So the way the math works out, there would be more Street Sames with Synaptic then Wired in 2050.  Just seems wrong.


Ok, comments and criticisms are done.  I have a couple questions now.

*Edit * Sorry, forgot one:
So, Shamans and Wuxing Traditions don't use binding.  Would that also mean that the tasks available only to bound spirits such as Aid Sorcery, Aid Study, & Spell Sustaining aren't available to them? And if that's the case, why does Wuxing have Spirit Spell Categories?  The Categories are only relevant to the bound services.  This seems to support both the idea that they can and cannot use these tasks.  I know I can decide for myself at my own table, but what was intended?

Slow Program.  It says it reduces the IC's Reation.  I'm not sure what you mean here.  Didn't think Reaction was a Matrix stat.  Could have meant Response, but there doesn't seem to be that stat in 2050's Matrix.  So that leaves two possibilities:  Either Initiative or the rating of the IC.

Cybercombat.  There is no Response or Firewall.  How does one avoid being hit in cybercombat?  Are all attacks automatic hits?  Everywhere I've looked for an answer it just refers me to SR4A's cybercombat section.  When changing the actual stats and skills in use just referring to SR4A's Cybercombat isn't enough, the systems are too different.  I can't be sure, but I think what you intended was to use the Decker's own Reaction stat in avoidance tests, but this change is nowhere to be found.  Can I assume that MPCP would be added to the Decker's Reaction?  Hardening used in damage resistance, perhaps added to Willpower?  I think that's in keeping with the idea of using the Decker's natural abilities, but need confirmation that's actually how it works.

The Attack Program action on p163 mentions an Armor Program.  I don't see on listed.  Is there an Armor Program?

Are SysOps tests Success or Extended tests?  I assume extended as the threshold is pretty high, but this isn't actually stated.

Cyberterms stats can be upgraded twice and Luggage once.  What are the costs and/or hardware tests needed to make this happen?

How does one get a Program Carrier?  There is no cost, no build test, nothing.  Do we get one with every cyberdeck purchase?  Is it more about the size of a deck of cards (-4 concealability modifier?) or a VHS tape (-2 concealability modifier?)?

Gear on p181.  Gear and ratings.  So, the description says the rating is used, so no Rx2, use rating, ok.  But there are no listed Ranges on ratings, so can I have a R20 Maglock?  Seems absurd, but it's a serious question.


Alright, done.  Sorry if I've been overly harsh with my criticisms, but I've been looking forward to this book since I heard that it was coming and well... I'm disappointed.  It feels rushed and incomplete.  I know everyone working on this worked really hard, I just wish you had more time to work on this before releasing it because I feel everything I've brought up was something that could have been caught before print.
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Parker on (01:48:49/11-24-12)
I've been hyped about this since it was announced and ordered a print copy when it came available.  The 'alternate history' approach is really enjoyable 'cause I get to rewrite the events of the 2050's to benefit my campaign and the enjoyment of my players. (heheheheh....)   But evil GM thinking aside, I've sat down with my players when they were making their characters and worked out what would work and what wouldn't. (For example, look at the tech level today.  I didn't see a problem using 4th Edition tech for them to use at higher cost/less availability or only through corp/government sources.  The technology shift would have its limits.  Otaku are still street tales and A.I.s don't exist yet.  Magic is is still an unexplored wilderness.  But hey, I get to dust off those first-edition adventures to use and I'm definitely looking forward to it. ;D
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: CanRay on (17:45:23/02-02-13)
OK, a question came up on my Facebook about The Matrix and how to build a Network using the SR2050 rules.  Here's my reply, which I figured should go here in case others had the same question:

"Best and fastest way I can describe it is to use the old Shadowrun Genesis game. What you do with the Nodes is build a Matrix Map of individual Nodes (blueprint as you called it), each with it's own stats and IC.

If you're connecting from an outside source, you have to get through a SAN, then probably a SPU (Or a CPU in really small networks, like a Mom-And-Pop shop), and then to the Nodes you need to go to from there (I/OP to use/edit camera feeds, DS to get Paydata, SN to adjust things to whatever device is being used, etc.).

Here's a good video of a random Matrix Run for Paydata: http://youtu.be/s_1iL7OdKAw

Pause it when the player moves from Node-To-Node and you'll see the map that's built using the Nodes.

Yeah, it's long and complex compared to SR4A where all you need to do is break into one "Node" as the system trusts each other in a PAN, but it's a lot easier than what was previously used in other editions of Shadowrun. I had to balance a fine line between the two..."
Title: Re: 2050 Shadowrun PDF is out
Post by: Black on (19:59:13/02-02-13)
OK, a question came up on my Facebook about The Matrix and how to build a Network using the SR2050 rules.  Here's my reply, which I figured should go here in case others had the same question:

"Best and fastest way I can describe it is to use the old Shadowrun Genesis game. What you do with the Nodes is build a Matrix Map of individual Nodes (blueprint as you called it), each with it's own stats and IC.

If you're connecting from an outside source, you have to get through a SAN, then probably a SPU (Or a CPU in really small networks, like a Mom-And-Pop shop), and then to the Nodes you need to go to from there (I/OP to use/edit camera feeds, DS to get Paydata, SN to adjust things to whatever device is being used, etc.).

Here's a good video of a random Matrix Run for Paydata: http://youtu.be/s_1iL7OdKAw

Pause it when the player moves from Node-To-Node and you'll see the map that's built using the Nodes.

Yeah, it's long and complex compared to SR4A where all you need to do is break into one "Node" as the system trusts each other in a PAN, but it's a lot easier than what was previously used in other editions of Shadowrun. I had to balance a fine line between the two..."

Thanks Canray!