[mrjames]

I have a player who wants to wear heavy military armor and be a 20 B 20 I base as a physical adept. He has a ton of mods including strength enhancements and SecureTechPPPSy. At which point does the armor become a weapon in of itself. Does he lose any abilities to attack if the armor is more of an exotic melee weapon now, instead of his fist. Since he is using strength enhancers, does that factor into his power use? A mage can't use artificial image enhancers to cast spells miles away. Should he have any penalties to having essentially the same thing for the suit doing the hitting and using it's strength instead of his?

[Mäx]

He's still using his own strength, its just boosted by the armor suits servos, so that shouldn't affect his power use.
But i'm wondering how did he get 20/20 armor, heavy military armor with helmet is only 18/16 and you can't wear any other armor with it.

[Walks Through Walls]

A mage can use an optical cable that stretches for miles to cast a spell though. I would say the servos of the military armor wouldn't add to the strength of a physical adepts punch because now it isn't part of his "body" which is what the magic acts through.

[Kontact]

You can't stack Military Armor with any other armor.
Naturally this excludes cyber and magical armor.

It just means that PPP, Gel Packs and FFBA can't be used with Military armor.

Anyway, strength enhancement from Milspec?  Isn't he already punching for more damage than an assault cannon?
Regardless, If a dude gets a cyberarm, it might lower his essence and magic, but it doesn't prevent him from using his punchwizardry.  Same thing here. 

[Angelone]

Heavy military armor isn't subtle, and in most cases it is far from legal. Granted the character is a shadowrunner and legality doesn't matter, however people thinking there's some kind of military invasion and calling the cops/national guard/superman/whoever should matter to not only them but the rest of the team.

As a physical adept they are better served getting a full suit of formfitting, stacked with an armor jacket, ppa, and mystic armor maybe some orthoskin if they are feeling froggy. That's 16/14 without the mystic armor or orthoskin.

[mrjames]

the cyberarm example is paid for by essence which makes it a part of you. The suit is not bonded to him by that in anyway. He used the extra padding option to provide an extra 4 points of ballistic and some more of impact. The quesstion as i see it, at which point does killing hands stop working. Does it count going through a gauntlet? I can see the strength argument both ways, with me siding with less bonus. He has mystic armor to pump it up even more as well. He does hit with more damage than an assualt cannon, but he wants to survivie some shots from one too. He's a human, wanting to be tougher than a troll. lol.

[The_Gun_Nut]

He's technically focusing Killing Hands through his aura, using his intent to do harm to "launch" the devastating magical energy from his aura to his target.  Auras extend a few inches (or more) beyond the body of the individual.  This is the reason that combat spells like Mana Bolt or Power Bolt ignore armor:  They are attacking the aura of the target and ground out inside the body.

So, yes, he can use Killing Hands all day while wearing heavy milspec armor.

As an aside, this is also the reason that cyborgs can't be targetted by direct mana spells.  The braincase's aura is housed inside half a foot or more of material, preventing the mage from "locking onto" the aura.  Killing hands works because it attacks the first thing it hits, I.E. the cyborg's drone body.  Of course, the mage can just lob a direct physical spell at the cyborg and shut it down.

[Mäx]

He used the extra padding option to provide an extra 4 points of ballistic and some more of impact.

What extra padding option?
If you mean the PPP system, that can't be used with millspec armor and neither can FFBA.

[Critias]

An Adept's "aura" (just like that of anyone else) extends beyond whatever clothes and armor they're wearing.  It's why a mage can still cast a line-of-sight spell at someone who's all wrapped up in clothing or milspec armor, without seeing their skin they can still see the person to target them with their intent to cause damage (or heal, or confuse, or whatever).  A metahuman aura, whether it's being read, or manipulated, extends past what they're wearing so that a mage's intent can affect it.

Ditto, with an Adept and his aura;  so his ability to inflict magical damage via Killing Hands (which, keep in mind, is just a flavor name, they can do lethal damage with kicks, knees, elbows, etc) extends, along with his aura, beyond whatever clothing or armor he's wearing.

Rules-wise, he's kosher.  Game balance wise?  It sounds like you're concerned he's upsetting how things are working at your table.  Maybe you should have a little talk with him and ask him to tone it down a little, maybe you should ask him why he feels he needs to try so hard to be able to take those kind of hits, maybe you should look at what other over-the-top gear the rest of the party might be sporting, or maybe you should look at the overall "feel" of your game (if folks are stomping around in heavy milspec armor, and you don't mean for the game to feel that way, how did it get off the rails and does it bother you enough to try and make a change?).

[mrjames]

Awesome,

  thanks for the answers. It's just what i needed to know.  It gives me some really good insight into how to handle it.

[KarmaInferno]

My personal opinion:

If he's constantly running around in heavy milspec armor, he's not really playing Shadowrun anymore. Maybe some war simulation, but not Shadowrun.

This is the sort of gear that makes most people go, "Holy crap, call the Really Big Guns in."

If he gets a reputation for wearing it a lot, he should start seeing more and more opposition showing up with stuff lik heavy weapons and rocket launchers.

It's an arms race. And the MegaCorps ALWAYS have bigger arms than the shadowrunners.

Honestly, I've been playing SR since it came out. And in all that time, I have seen heavy milspec armor in a game maybe a dozen times. And never in the hands of players.

As people have noted, milspec armor doesn't stack with any other worn armor. Plus, remember that even milspec armor has encumbrance if either rating exceeds bodyx3.



-k

[Mäx]

Plus, remember that even milspec armor has encumbrance if either rating exceeds bodyx3.

Well mobility ugrade 3 turns that into bodyx3+6
Meaning you can wear Heavy milspec armor + helmet (18/16) with body of 4. 

[Doc Chaos]

And pumps it up to how much Nuyen?

[Angelone]

37,500 nuyen for Heavy with Mobility Upgrade 3 and a Military Helmet.

I have access to Light Military Armor and the only times that I use it is when I am far away from the public eye and the bug guns are needed. Even with the Ruthiem Fibers I don't feel safe wearing it in a population center.

[Kontact]

Use the Fashion spell to make it look like a jumpsuit!