[FastJack]

No problem, GN. And I wasn't even thinking of the "no pesticide, no nothin'" type of organics. I usually roll my eyes at that too. If anything, my organics run more of "Buy Local" than anything else...

[Teknodragon]

#1) Yes, I've watched those episodes of Penn & Teller's Bullshit and I wholeheartedly agree that we cannot feed the world on organic growing styles. And that most recycling is BS.

#2) HOWEVER, I also think there's a HUGE difference between wanting food that isn't so full of chemicals and preservatives that it's not as healthy to eat. Unfortunately, the only way you can try to get that is buying overpriced organic-labeled foods.

#3) Watch Food Inc.. Also, watch the previously mentioned episode of Bullshit. Understand both sides of the argument, then decide for yourself how to live your life.

(rant snipped by Teknodragon)

I work on a dairy farm; grew up on it. We've grown organic crops by way of experiment a couple times.  It is... very inefficient.  At the same time, the family garden was organic, though not by intent-- we had manpower more than money at the time (as in, Tekno-- go weed the garden).

Nothing wrong at all with having 'organically grown food' as an option-- just as having vegetarian, vegan, gluten-free or lactose-free foods are good options to have as well.  The problem comes when those who push organic foods make false accusations and insinuations (like antibiotic-free cheese and milk).  Someone who considers and does a modest amount of research in the choice of their food, like FastJack here, I applaud.  Their opinion is informed, which allows them to make informed arguments as well.

I should note, that part of the reason organic food is pricey, is there is less yield per acre.  Out of that yield, there is more damage by insects and fungi.  Of the remaining crop, less yet looks as good as the non-'organic' food it competes with.  Quality can be improved, to a point, by more mechanical effort-- that is, manpower.  Those people need to be paid, as do equipment operating costs.

There are some... interesting loopholes, here and there, regarding official designation of what is organic and what is not.

[Chaotic Insane]

Wild berries taste so much better than commercial because they're smaller. Wild strawberries are only a little bigger than grocery store raspberries. Wild meat will always trump cow. If my family hunted you bet your ass I'd be having venison WAY MORE than once every couple years. Which is depressing, because it's my favorite meat. Ever. There's plenty of deer even down here in the city. If I could shoot the ocean from a boat I'D hunt. Gladly. Papa Joe's garden is the best place to get peppers, tomatoes, and whatever other veggies he decided to grow that year. And this is just based on taste.

Am I happy with how commercial slaughter animals are treated and fed? Hell no. Doesn't stop me from eating it any though just because it's cheaper and easier. I'd really prefer if they didn't pump everything with growth hormones. Puberty is coming younger and younger with each generation, and let me tell you, hitting it in THIRD GRADE was NOT FUN. Menarche used to come in a woman's mid to late teens not THAT long ago. Now it's mid to late elementary school age. That's not good. At all. I don't know off the top of my head if menopause is coming any earlier or later though, and I don't know jack about men's statistics.

"Organic" food just can't be mass-produced, and as soon as it is, you kinda start missing the point. :/ It's not worth the few extra bucks to me, personally. I'd rather grow and kill my own food so I KNOW what's in it for certain than buying something in a brown package instead of a dyed package.

And on the topic of corn being in everything: THIS IS WHY MY ANIMALS ARE NOT FED COMMERCIAL PET FOOD! Dogs and cats have an even harder time digesting it than WE do. It's nothing. It's filler. It's actually worse than filler because it's more detrimental to them than anything. MOST cases of urinary crystals, kidney stones, diabetes, allergies, and obesity in animals can be cleared up by switching to a pet food that is devoid (or at least very low) in corn and grain (lots of household pets actually have grain allergies). Stay away from "[meat] meal" or "[meat] by-product" because that's pretty much the PC way to say "rotting meat" and "odd bits and ends that aren't really all that great for consumption like heads and feet." Cats do much better on wet-food diets, as they are carnivores, and like all predators, have digestive systems and instincts that are much better equipped to get hydration (and non-animal matter nutrients, like those from fruits and veggies) from their "kill" pre-digested once than out of a water bowl. Hell, if you have the time and some money to set it up, get'em on a raw food diet. In the long run, it's cheaper, especially since any left overs that don't make it into fido and mitten's bowls is perfectly fine for you to make some gumbo out of. Meat grinder, whole chicken/beef with bones/pork/rabbit/turkey/whatever, powdered dietary supplements, and you're pretty much good to go!