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Spirit Powers

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FrankK

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« on: <07-22-17/1058:18> »
Sorry if this has been answered previously.. but i could not get the search bar here to work...
When summonning/binding a spirit What form / dammage type do we get/select for things like .. elemental attack .. breath weapon .. engulf ... etc.. Hero lab lets me select things like .. fire for my plant spirit .. which seems strange..

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« Reply #1 on: <07-22-17/1322:06> »
Nope. Nothing wrong here lol :P

5th doesn't have hard set rules on the matter. Your best resource is common sense.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #2 on: <07-22-17/2356:29> »
The way I've ruled it for my games is that characters pick the forms for their spirits based on their tradition and magical inclination. Then, based on that, we decide what the various elements and forms each of the powers take for their spirits. Any time they summon a spirit, it will have some variation on that form, so those choices stay the same. That way it all stays thematic and appropriate to tradition.

PS: yes, those choices are made for each type of spirit they can summon separately. The thematic would include what role the spirit plays for the tradition (Combat, Health, etc.)

Senko

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« Reply #3 on: <07-29-17/1752:28> »
So is that per spirit or spirit type.

For example I summon Kiki a force E monkey spirit to cause a distraction at a dam. Am I now defining the powers/appearance for all animal spirits, all monkey spirits or just Kiki? I can see it working better for elemental/object spirits e.g. all fire spirits are going to be fairly similar as are say task spirits but animal, plant and to a lesser extent human would allow a huge variation in how powers manifest. A snakes envelop could be wrapping around the target while a Hippos is sitting on them and I've no idea what a mouse with envelop could do.

Of course it can easily be just defining Kiki's powers in my games as I have mages run a stable of spirits. That is any spirit they summon is given a name, personality and a little background fluff with them summoning that spirit by default. It's a bit more work and I'm not sure it'd work on a game that went for a long time or one that changed a lot but I've been trying to put together a table to take care of that. So I can just go spirit type/force used you get X roll on the personality table. Again its animal/plant that prevent the table going beyond name/personality. Those kingdoms have such a huge variety there's no way I could cover them all in one table and most people would want to choose the type anyway.. A force 15 mouse spirit is still a mouse spirit not a mouse Kong spirit. So I'm not sure if it's better to have the same spirit with different force levels or a different spirit for each force level e.g. a mouse that depending on the force has different stats or a different mouse spirit for each force 1-x. The latters what I'd prefer bur it's a lot more work. Of course you could always recycle them for different characters.
« Last Edit: <07-29-17/1801:57> by Senko »

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #4 on: <07-30-17/1436:36> »
So, first off, I just want to repeat that this is how I personally run things, so it isn't a RAW interpretation of anything, just how I personally handle spirits for magicians for my games.

That being said, I will add that the restriction on defining powers applies primarily to the Elemental Attack and Engulf powers. Those powers (and any others that end up like them) have different effects based on an "element" but the listing in the powers a spirit gets doesn't say "choose one." So, for example, It doesn't affect the powers that explicitly can be different each time you summon a spirit (like Optional powers: Innate Spell, Skills, or Improved Sense), those specifically state that you have options, and those options can be different each time.

I also want to add that it doesn't limit what Optional Powers you can take, or the order that you take them. The optional powers do add a bit of variety each time, it just adds a theme that those optional powers might manifest as.

Now, I did say that the choice was a thematic one, so any of these limitations would be based on the theme chosen and can still vary as appropriate within that theme. A Norse tradition mage could specify that all Guardian spirits look like Valkyries, so it only makes sense that the Natural Weapon power would manifest as an actual weapon. That weapon might normally be a spear of some sort, but it could just as easily be a sword, or an axe, but claws wouldn't be fitting in this instance. I don't remember if Guardian spirits get elemental attack, but going on that theme, they would probably wield lightning (electricity) if anything...

Most magicians don't summon "monkey spirits" they summon spirits of beasts. For most magicians I would probably ask the same sort of thing for their beast spirits, "what sort of beast does your spirit manifest as?" For many, it wouldn't change much, and depending on tradition their might be a limited list of creatures that make sense. My shinto mage, for example summoned foxes as her beast spirit, because in shinto, kitsune are trickster spirits. Shamans that have chosen an animal totem, likewise, probably summon beast spirits that are aspects of their totem. There might be some variation for a magician that doesn't follow a specific totem, but I think for a lot of people when you ask them for a combat animal, their mind is going to go for something first, and that's probably what your combat spirit looks like.

Senko

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« Reply #5 on: <07-30-17/1536:28> »
Interesting for me I've always viewed the beast spirits as any type of beast and you'd summon an appropriate one e.g. a rat in a city, a dog in the suburbs, a monkey in an area they're common enough a problem to have warning signs and a monkey patrol depending on the mages desires/preferences at the time.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #6 on: <07-31-17/0444:40> »
Spirits that are being summoned haven't been based on where the magician is since 3rd edition. At the very least its form would be based on the purpose they're being summoned for, and the purpose that magicians summon a particular spirit for is based on tradition. Shamans, for instance, summon spirits of beasts for Combat, so they would most likely manifest as predators or something ready for a fight. Again, the exact form would be based on the summoner and their particular bend on what they would consider an effective combatant as representative of their offensive magic.