Author Topic: Doc Wagon is it worth it?  (Read 530 times)

Rooks

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Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« on: (02:18:13/05-18-17) »
As topic anyone ever spend money on this?

grffnhwk

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #1 on: (02:36:53/05-18-17) »
Classically it was a must.  I just added a basic contract to my riggers lifestyle.  My thoughts were that even though they won't come onto Corp property, they'll come scrape my ass off the pavement in the Barrens or freeway. <shrug>

Jack_Spade

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #2 on: (02:51:17/05-18-17) »
Since Doc Waggon doesn't enter extra-territorial space for an extraction it's pretty useless for the typical runner. Just 10.000 Nuyen will buy you a VTOL Dust-off drone that you can link to your biomonitor. Add another flying drone with a sniper rifle and you basically have the service of Doc Waggon right there.
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Mirikon

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #3 on: (10:29:35/05-18-17) »
It depends on how many of your runs are on extraterritorial property, and what kind of other healing you have available. For instance, relatively few of any of the Missions series or even the non-Missions runs published since the start of 4e take place wholly or even mostly on extraterritorial property. Remember, just because someplace is corporate property, unless they're an AA or higher, they aren't extraterritorial.

That does drek all for you if you're on a run inside an MCT Zero Zone, but if you're at an A Corp, even if it is an MCT subsidiary protected by MCT's security company, that isn't MCT property, and isn't extraterritorial. Runs in the Orc Underground, or the Barrens? Not extraterritorial. Runs on political figures? Not extraterritorial. Runs against gangs, syndicates, or policlubs? Not extraterritorial.

So there's lots of places you can use it, even in a runner's lifestyle. The more Pink Mohawk your group is, the more likely you're going to need them, honestly. The Black Trenchcoat crowd tends to view combat as the last resort, and then it is more to disengage than to take down the enemy, so they tend to acquire fewer bullet holes that need patching, and the ones they do get can be dealt with easily enough with magic or a first aid kit, at least until they get to their street doc. Even when my character has DocWagon coverage, I've never been in a situation where I needed it. If I got tagged hard enough that the call went out, I was dead by the time they got there.

So, how much you need DocWagon is a direct reflection of how much fighting you do off extraterritorial property.
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MDMann

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #4 on: (10:32:10/05-18-17) »
Very GM dependant. If you can get your hand out past the chainlink fence of the corp site you're hitting, they can (and will) drag you to safety. Otherwise SOOL (shot out of luck) chummer.  I like it but it depends on how your game runs.

Mirikon

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #5 on: (12:39:52/05-18-17) »
It doesn't hurt to have, though, so if you happen to have a few thousand spare nuyen at chargen, a basic docwagon subscription isn't a bad choice.
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Sendaz

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #6 on: (10:05:33/05-19-17) »
Ah DocWagon.

It was well worth it for the higher up exec who might need emergency services when outside his own arcology.

Runners bought into it heavily in the 40's under the mistaken impression that DocWagon's armed response teams could pull their hoops out of corporate turf if a run went south, a misunderstanding that some accused DocWagon of intentionally misselling to the Shadow community.

Largely there wasn't much a Runner could do about it, except lick their wounds and carry on, maybe a bit wiser if a bit poorer for it. 

This reportedly changed in the 50's when Yamatetsu, who was at the time was backing their own medical service provider in Crash Cart, helped finance a fledgling legal firm to organize a number of Runners who had been taken in by DocWagon's Promised Pullout Insurance (PPI) to join in on a class action suit suing the corp for the misselling of their insurance packages, with the intent to shake shareholder and public confidence in DocWagon along with the other marketing tactics Yamatetsu was using at the time.

:P

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Magnaric

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #7 on: (23:21:06/05-19-17) »
I've found that it's something new, inexperienced Shadowrun players tend to forget or overlook, but with veterans of the game it's about 50%. Really depends what type of game they run/play in and the types of jobs their team takes.

Personally, I like treating a Doc Wagon (or Crash Cart, or other) contract as the condom principle. Better to have one and not need it, than need it and not have one.
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Duellist_D

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #8 on: (12:17:28/05-22-17) »
It's sort of a meme .
Everybody (in the lore) says it's super important, but the actual usefulness is heavily overplayed.
Can't rd imagine many scenarios where a DW Contract would actually save your hide in practice, not only in theory.
I mean, if you are going down in a firefight, chances are good your enemy will tap your for security before help is near.

It could still work out in a streetscum game or anywhere with mostly non-professional obstacles.

Mirikon

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #9 on: (14:55:05/05-22-17) »
Eh, that depends, D_D.

For one thing, DocWagon contracts cover more than just their high-threat evac services. Getting tagged for 7 or 8 out of 10 boxes on your Physical monitor will put you in a bad way for a while unless you get a doc to help out, and as long as you have a way to explain away the curious concentrations of formerly high-velocity lead in your system, and have the money for the procedure, there's few safer places to get patched up.

For another, you're thinking as an individual, not part of a team. You might go down, but your team might be able to drag your ass out of there, in which case DocWagon will be on station fast to take you to get patched up.

So long as someone can get you off extraterritorial property, then you have medical evac from the job site. Of course, you'll probably have to find a way to escape before they extradite you back to the corp, but that is better than bleeding out or waking up in the corp's research labs as a 'volunteer'.

All told, I'd put its usefulness in about the same range as having multiple fake SINs. If you have the nuyen, there are FAR worse things to spend it on, but they aren't essential for a starting runner
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Jack_Spade

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #10 on: (15:25:01/05-22-17) »
But that's just it: The rules don't favor you going to a doctor/hospital

Stabilizing slab patch, use Valkyrie Module for first aid - have chummer use Heal on you, stay in VM for extended care (don't forget to get the Quick Healer Quality)
and after a day you are completely healed up even if you were at death's door before.
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Mirikon

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #11 on: (21:28:47/05-22-17) »
Assuming, of course, that you have access to all, or any, of those things. What happens when the reason you needed that patch was the rigger's van going boom, taking that Valkyrie module with it? Or when the mage has also had the crap kicked out of him, and can't manage a Heal spell right now? You're thinking best case scenario. I'm thinking about when the demon lord Murphy raises his ugly head.
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Jack_Spade

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #12 on: (03:08:04/05-23-17) »
Maybe we are playing different kinds of games then. VM costs 2000 and can be installed in virtually every vehicle by RAW (don't ask how). There is absolutely no reason not to have one in everone's car.
And if your only means of transportation has just been blown up you likely have bigger troubles than taking care of the stabilized chummer.
Even without a slab patch stabilizing isn't particularly difficult.

But consider this: A four person team of runners pays 20.000 per year for a basic contract
Add to that HTR Service (5000), Resuscitation (5000) and maybe a dead Doc Wagon employee (20.000).

For that kind of money you can get your Aeroquip Dustoff (w/Valkyrie module) and a bunch of drones to provide fire support. You can keep those out of trouble until you need them - and with a spoof chip you can even get them onto corp territory without much problems.

Doc Wagon is basically a very expensive health insurance that doesn't actually cover anything (Which probably isn't anything new for most americans)
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Mirikon

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #13 on: (04:38:19/05-23-17) »
*shrugs* The games I've been in have taught me to never become too reliant on any one system. You get cocky and complacent that way, and then either Murphy's going to come calling, or someone is going to deliberately use that against you. Always have backups for your backups.

Not all characters have vehicles, especially vehicles they can take with them into harm's way. Even fewer have the capabilities to truly use those vehicles to get out of harm's way, and we all know fleeing the scene relying on autopilot or default skills is a great way to get yourself killed or captured.

When dealing with characters on the lower Resource priorities, a 5K bracelet that will get someone to evac you to a doc if you can get over the Azzies' fence line is a lot cheaper than a modified drone that they don't have the resources to secure against enemy hackers just turning the thing around and flying them to the waiting arms of the security forces. And official spiders are going to think twice about hacking official DocWagon vehicles unless they get orders from higher.

And again, not all characters have first aid, so you're looking at people making rolls based on dog brain medkits to stabilize and patch up your team if the person with medic training gets tagged. If you even had one to begin with.



Your thinking, as I said, is a 'best of the bad cases' kind of thing. Nothing wrong with it, and I think the optimism is great. But I'm more a 'eliminate weaknesses' kind of guy. For the same reason my combat mage who uses blades and spells as his primary weapons will typically have at LEAST six blades on him at all times (maybe more), as well as at least a couple pistols (different ammo loadouts, and extra clips for each), and several types of grenades, from smoke to White Phosphorous and everything in between. Yes, he probably only NEEDS the spells or his weapon focus katana, but he is PREPARED for meeting any and all threats, even if he gets disarmed a few times, or he needs to switch to less-lethal, or he needs to blow the hell out of a room. And that's not counting when he goes in preparing for specific threats, like bughunting runs.
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Jack_Spade

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Re: Doc Wagon is it worth it?
« Reply #14 on: (05:00:02/05-23-17) »
I see.
But the point is: You only have limited resources. Doc Wagon is very expensive compared to the options I mentioned before. You are talking about a worst case - without mentioning the worst worst case: You being stuck on corp territory.

Having your own means to take care of your wounded - which means medkits and a basic knowledge how to operate them - is essential. It takes about 5 minutes until a Doc Wagon arrives - if you are lucky. That's an eternity in SR where combat seldom takes longer than 12 seconds. Bleeding out is measured in minutes. Without basic first aid you are fucked either way.

Your priority should therefore be to have the basic stuff taken care of instead of that shiny bracelet. Decent Medkits and VM units are cheaper and better in that regard.

And saying that hackers won't target Doc Wagon but will do so with your Aeroquip that you painted to look like Doc Wagon is an argument I won't let count. If your GM wants you dead, he certainly won't hesitate to shoot both down - otherwise he'll likely let you escape. You don't even have to have wireless on with that one: A Pilot 4 is more than enough to shut wireless down and navigate on it's own to your extraction point. Or a simple Jack Rabbit not part of your PAN and parked outside 100m: One call to the pilot and it will come to fetch you - good luck to any hacker to find that icon and attack it.

But to each their own...
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