Author Topic: Logic 1  (Read 1084 times)

JmOz01

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 575
Logic 1
« on: (22:55:07/05-15-17) »
Dumb or just not technical (and probably somewhat irrational)?

Novocrane

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2225
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #1 on: (23:17:20/05-15-17) »
Non-academic and probably more prone to gut feeling.

There are actual qualities for someone worse off / less able to improve than that.

JmOz01

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 575
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #2 on: (23:19:33/05-15-17) »
So perfect for my Party Girl Rocker?

GloriousRuse

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #3 on: (03:17:11/05-16-17) »
I like to project stats on a standard deviation, with "3" being the center of the bell curve. For IQ, in so far as you use that to measure intelligence and consider it a decent proxy for the LOGIC stat, this means a 3 is a character with an IQ between roughly 85 and 115.

Logic 3 covers most normal humans. At the high end you would be expected to happily graduate college in the modern US, at the low end you would make it through high school...probably

A logic 2 then might be an IQ of 75-85. (The curve isn't perfect, blame the inventors.) You're getting in the range where you flunking out of high school in the modern US is getting be to a significant risk. A lot of time you "just don't get it" when concepts more basic than arithmetic and basic literacy. Not because you're lazy, but because you lack the requisite processing power. Even those basic life skills you find slow and frustrating because everyone else seems to grasp things so much more easily than you.

A logic 1 character has a sub 75 IQ. This doesn't mean your character is considered intellectually handicapped, but you'd be a candidate for special education in the most states education system. You can be expected to perform unskilled labor just fine; you meet all the standards for simple factory work or manual agriculture for instance, and could even live an ok life, but you are definitely not very well equipped to handle modern life and things like numeracy in all but the most rote circumstances. 

To which you might reply "ahh! Logic 1 sounds almost unplayable! And there's no point in having an unplayable stat!" Well, it's playable, representing a truly intellectually disadvantaged person trying to make their way in a dystopian world., not just "cutesy dumb." Alternatively, you could cheat the curve and only use a 1/2 SD downgrade per point below 3, which would then basically make you an 85ish IQ. 

You would have to decide if Party Girl is a Party Girl because she is really quite dumb and has turned to the rock/drugs/sex lifestyle because it offers something she can be good at and people seem to appreciate her for or whatnot 0\- Logic 1 - or if she is perfectly normal functioning human who just chose a different path - logic 3.
 

Novocrane

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2225
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #4 on: (07:25:55/05-16-17) »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_intellectual_functioning

The problem with saying this is relevant, is that a single day of effort and 2 karma brings a Logic 1 character equal to an unskilled Logic 3 character's level. ie; "The default level of knowledge obtained through interaction with society and the Matrix."

Sub-standard, but not exactly special needs, and not dumb enough to be incapable of performing at standard levels with appropriate gear - and/or situational bonuses like regular exposure. Which one would have in the case of standard functioning human adult activities, and would bring everyone up to a point where they can buy a single hit if necessary.

This doesn't even get into how you don't roll dice for day-to-day activities.
« Last Edit: (17:27:14/05-16-17) by Novocrane »

Kiirnodel

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • *
  • Posts: 1025
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #5 on: (07:30:15/05-16-17) »
Using IQ gives a decent analogy. I did a quick search for IQ classifications, and I found the following chart:
I added suggested SR stat levels.
Very Superior130 and above7+
Superior120-1295-6
High Average110-1194
Average90-1093
Low Average80-892
Borderline70-791
Extremely Low69 and belowadditional negative qualities (sub 1)

Now, IQ also probably uses aspects of a person's Intuition as well, so it isn't a perfect example.

Beta

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1075
  • SR1 player, SR5 GM@FtF & player@PbP
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #6 on: (11:17:21/05-16-17) »
the way I look at it, with logic 1 you can't default on any skill you don't know (default is 0 dice).  You are not unreachable, but you really can't figure out anything for yourself using logic.

Rosa

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 327
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #7 on: (11:20:27/05-16-17) »
In my opinion,  then yes if you have a logic attribute of 1 you're an idiot or an airhead and you would give the resident village idiot a run for their money.

But if you're not actually mentally handicapped then you have the same potential that everyone else have, meaning that if you apply yourself you can easily raise that logic to much higher.

At our table dump stats are frowned upon,  so unless you had a good reason for it  ( and airhead party girl that never really had the time/patience/inclination for school would qualify as a reason, but you would be expected to role play it  ) you can expect to be put in loads of situations where your "lack" would be felt, if you had a good reason and were intending to role play it, then the GM would go easier on you. Needless to say dumping stats for min-maxing puposes gets punished whereas doing it for role-playing does not.

So why do you want logic 1 for your party girl? 

Jack_Spade

  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6007
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #8 on: (13:38:56/05-16-17) »
The value of an attribute is exactly how many dice it brings you. SR is a far cry from being simulationist.
Log 1 can be someone who just never applies himself to any rational thought or someone who simply can't. There is no "this means you have to play an idiot with these stats" rule.
Mental Limit is a far better indicator for intellectual baseline.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Rooks

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 976
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #9 on: (01:37:59/05-17-17) »
what about Dimmer Bulb then?

Sipowitz

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 340
  • Smile for the camera
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #10 on: (02:59:38/05-17-17) »
This is why I don't allow stats below 2.

Jack_Spade

  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6007
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #11 on: (03:18:05/05-17-17) »
what about Dimmer Bulb then?

What about it? It's a quality with a defined effect and completely independent of your Log stat.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

GloriousRuse

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #12 on: (17:59:37/05-17-17) »
Its kind of a weird mix Spade; on one side we say Logic represents things like intellectual inclination and value, but on the other we have a host of "intellectual" qualities that do not change the stat at tall, they directly impact skills - College Educated, for example, would on a "how intellectual are you" measure provide a LOG boost. It does not, it only benefits some LOG based skills on the theory you have the same amount of brainpower, just more study in that field.

In contrast, most brain 'ware does things like directly increase your memory or processing power up there, and does provide LOG bonuses. The implication is that LOG represents to some degree raw mental capacity, and then skills represent utilizing it.

We also canonically note that a human "7" in a stat is considered one of the greatest that ever lived, and represents a miniscule fraction of the population. This tends to support a distributive curve of genetics to at least some extent.

All of this is complicated by the fact LOG in particular is a case where it would be hard to see the stat moving up and down, whereas you can very demonstrably bench press your way to a 5 in STR. It may just be an outlier that way; practically every other stat you could conceivably improve or fall back in based on effort to a far greater degree.   

Novocrane

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2225
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #13 on: (21:22:26/05-17-17) »
Quote
We also canonically note that a human "7" in a stat is considered one of the greatest that ever lived, and represents a miniscule fraction of the population.
There are a number of natural ways (and one metagenetic way) a human could deviate above the standard natural human maximum. Exceptional Attribute represents one way of deviation, but there is also natural expression of variant genes (on which genetic modifications have been based), and fortunately beneficial damaged metagenetic code. When you combine all of these, then you have a human who truly represents the pinnacle of natural human achievement, and the smallest fraction of the human population - exceptionally gifted people who could only be NPCs under standard chargen rules.

GloriousRuse

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 149
Re: Logic 1
« Reply #14 on: (01:25:27/05-18-17) »
Allow me to correct myself, a 7 canonically represents the pinnacle of human excellence prior to enhancement and the awakening. I think it was 4E that used leaders like Hitler and Churchill as examples of CHA 7, and Einstein for LOG 7