[Nelzy]

Hello Everyone.


My group are going to start to play shadowrun soon, we have all played of other games, but we like to test new things, so after a quick test run to feel the system we are going to beggin the real thing.

My character concept is a Quad smg wielding Nartaki, i think the concept can work especialy after some optimization for it, still nothing cheezy or broken,

My problem is that the GM have a smal worry that me making 8 attacks in one round, is going to become a large time sink during combat making the experience for everyone else diminish.
I Think that it could be manageble, especialy if you steamline the rolling to not waste time, and also depending on the targets defence pool, he could lose it entierly making the number of rolls even less.

So id like to ask: do anyone of you guys have experience with playing in a group with a character like this in Shadowrun?  was it a big problem or was it manageble?

i realy like the character and would love to be able to put my GM's worry to rest.

[Jack_Spade]

If you read the rules on multiattacks you'll notice quickly it's pretty pointless to wield that many guns (except for added recoil compensation), since you only have one dominant hand and you have to split your dicepool between all attacks you make in one phase.
Furthermore, automatic weapons are already able to do that with just one weapon.
So it might seem cool, but it's really not very strong/a bit pointless.

[Glonthein]

We have one guy with 6 arms at our table (shiva arms rank 2). Instead of having the same weapon multiple times, each arm wields a different weapon. He sometimes uses two at a time along with a "second chance" edge spend to maximum effect, but it really is when he needs to cheese his way out. What this allows him is to be a weapon specialists that has every single weapon ready at the same time, without having to use actions to change his weapon.
So I would go with that option, if I were you. And if you have the Strength to manage it, one hand wearing a shield might be a good idea.

[ZeldaBravo]

My problem is that the GM have a smal worry that me making 8 attacks in one round, is going to become a large time sink during combat making the experience for everyone else diminish.

Oh do not worry about that, you are not going to make 8 attacks per round.

[Nelzy]

If you read the rules on multiattacks you'll notice quickly it's pretty pointless to wield that many guns (except for added recoil compensation), since you only have one dominant hand and you have to split your dicepool between all attacks you make in one phase.
Furthermore, automatic weapons are already able to do that with just one weapon.
So it might seem cool, but it's really not very strong/a bit pointless.

Yea i know about the rules, and what i need to do, but with alot of optimizing for doing multiple attacks, it is not complete garbage. (Depending how you count, its still far from optimal),
even if i miss all my attacks, the target would still lose defence dice to attacks after me, potentialy boosting my alies.
and in the case where im realy lucky or the target have no defence they are going to get trashed (not likely)
But anyhow i did not make the character to maximice my potential, its more that i liked the idea and how cool it is.
And if its completly unplayable i have several options to fall back on, as Glonthein pointed out.

i did this thread just for the issue about it slowing down the game, Thx for the tips and headsup anyhow, i did not give mutch info in my post so its understandable that you suspected i did not know about the dice pool spliting and so forth.

[Jack_Spade]

The reason I assumed that you hadn't read the rules carefully was that you talk about making 8 attacks:

p.196 core:

"The total number of attacks you can make in a single Action Phase is limited to one-half the attacker’s Combat Skill. "

You'd need a skill of 16 to be able to make 8 attacks in one action phase, since p. 164 declares: "During his Action Phase, a character may take two Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action. A character may also take a Free Action with the two Simple Actions."

[firebug]

Also, using the Multiple Attacks action doesn't let you attack the same target more than once.  So, even if you were capable of making all 8 attacks, they would have to be on 8 different targets.

[Novocrane]

Also, using the Multiple Attacks action doesn't let you attack the same target more than once.

Talking outside the rules for a moment, I don't see why it shouldn't.

We know what happens when you fire 1/3/6/10/20 bullets at something as a simple or complex action. We know how to downgrade those actions when you fire fewer bullets than required. (unless you're using Aimed Burst/Brain Blaster/ Double Tap) What's the big deal with upgrading the results or switching to suppressing fire when you're hosing down an area to that extent?

[firebug]

There's admittedly no in-game reason you can't; it'd be kind of complex, perhaps, to just allow someone to just fire four pistols at once, each on Semi-Automatic Burst, to give a cumulative penalty to what's calculated as one attack.  Would it be -11 (total bullets fired -1, like single actions have a pattern of) or -8 (the combined penalty of four Semi-Automatic Bursts)?  When would it switch to "firing mode with a LOT of bullets" to "suppressive fire with not quite enough bullets"?  Would you then have to implement a rule to allow normal firing modes to be more flexible?  Like, "Simple Full Auto is 6 bullets for a -5; Complex Full Auto is up to 10 bullets for up to -9"

Perhaps they didn't think of that (as it's admittedly pretty niche, but not a bad houserule), or perhaps they felt that would devalue automatic weapons in a way they didn't like?

[Nelzy]

The reason I assumed that you hadn't read the rules carefully was that you talk about making 8 attacks:

p.196 core:

"The total number of attacks you can make in a single Action Phase is limited to one-half the attacker’s Combat Skill. "

You'd need a skill of 16 to be able to make 8 attacks in one action phase, since p. 164 declares: "During his Action Phase, a character may take two Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action. A character may also take a Free Action with the two Simple Actions."

Hmm, we are running 4:th anniversary edition, and thats part is not in the book,
and the page you listed goes to adept powers(not supricing if its from another edition)

but anyhow that wont be a problem since i have 17 so i got that covered anyway

Also, using the Multiple Attacks action doesn't let you attack the same target more than once.  So, even if you were capable of making all 8 attacks, they would have to be on 8 different targets.

Hmm, same again that it could be because  we are running 4:th anniversary edition, cause i cant find anything in there ither that say that multiple attacks cant be on the same target.
Do you have a page number or some other reference to the rule? cause im sure my fellow players also would like to know that incase they decide to do more then one attack.

[Jack_Spade]

Oh, that explains the confusion.
In general this forum discusses 5th edition rules.

For 4th and lower rules questions there is the older edition subforum

In that case you are right and can in fact do 8 attacks.

[Nelzy]

Oh, that explains the confusion.
In general this forum discusses 5th edition rules.

For 4th and lower rules questions there is the older edition subforum

In that case you are right and can in fact do 8 attacks.

Ow ty for the link.

[Finstersang]

With all the modifiers (Dice Pool Splits, Recoil, Off-Hand...), I´d rather recommend standard dual-wielding instead of quadruple wielding. The 2 extra arms can still be put to a good use: reloading, holding secondary weapons, lobbing grenades, pulling doors...

[The Bald Man]

With all the modifiers (Dice Pool Splits, Recoil, Off-Hand...), I´d rather recommend standard dual-wielding instead of quadruple wielding. The 2 extra arms can still be put to a good use: reloading, holding secondary weapons, lobbing grenades, pulling doors...

Instead of dual wielding pistols.  Dual Wield LONGARMS!  Have a Rifle and a Shotgun! 
-Need some CC (Crowd Control) widen choke and or suppressive fire if you have automatic shotgun.
-Take out targets at range or more hardened targets use the rifle.