Author Topic: [SR5] Priority Generation: Math You Really Ought to Know  (Read 3957 times)

Myriad

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Great stuff yet again.

The only thing I might add is Raven mentor spirit for the fact it has 1.5 pp worth of powers for adepts, +2 con.  Traceless walk is great for ultrasound sensors too, so there's that along with the voice control for the security.

Pap Renvela

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Great stuff yet again.

The only thing I might add is Raven mentor spirit for the fact it has 1.5 pp worth of powers for adepts, +2 con.  Traceless walk is great for ultrasound sensors too, so there's that along with the voice control for the security.

Traceless walk doesn't  magically make you immune to echolocation.

Kiirnodel

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It applies a -4 penalty to hearing-based perception. That might be what Myriad is referring to.

At the very least, sensors that use vibrations to pick up nearby motion would be at a severe disadvantage against someone with Traceless Walk

Pap Renvela

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It applies a -4 penalty to hearing-based perception. That might be what Myriad is referring to.

At the very least, sensors that use vibrations to pick up nearby motion would be at a severe disadvantage against someone with Traceless Walk
Except that ultrasound in active mode isn't  hearing based perception per se.
It's bouncing ultrasonic waves off of solid objects to make an image.
Which is why it compensates visibility environmental effects and ignores lighting.

Yeah, you're not making noise by putting pressure on the floor-that doesn't mitigate vibrations bouncing off of you.

emsquared

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Re: [SR5] Priority Generation: Math You Really Ought to Know
« Reply #34 on: (13:42:54/03-22-17) »
I don't come here much anymore - my table STILL plays 4E cuz we dropped so much $$$ on it over the years (and had already homeruled it to be quite like what 5E turned out to be) - but it warms my heart to see this thread pop up!

You did a lot more thorough job than I ever did, gargaM.

Thanks for your contribution to the community, and I look forward to referencing your work heavily if I ever find myself playing 5E.

Cheers!

gargaM0NK

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Re: [SR5] Priority Generation: Math You Really Ought to Know
« Reply #35 on: (21:08:59/03-22-17) »
Damn @emsquared. hearing that from someone who's contributed as much as yourself made my entire evening.

I feel like I have some understanding, now, of the effort you put in to your own thread, and I feel like you're selling yourself a bit short ;)

Thanks for taking the time for those kind words.  If you do switch to 5E at some point, I hope you find it helpful.

I know the guide has gotten long, but hopefully you saw this little gem nestled in the shout-outs section:
Shout-outs!
  • Shout-outs to emsquared and UmaroVI for their work on the pivotal SR4A math topic that inspired this one!
Ğ Last Edit: 2017-03-18, 20:19:51 by gargaM0NK ğ

Also, wanted to let everyone know I've added a first pass on weapons and weapon accessories.

…………_„-,-~''~''':::'':::':::::'''::::''...'-
..……._,-'':::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...'-
…..,-'::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...'-
…,-'::::::::::::„:„„-~-~--'~-'~--~-~... ..-|
..,'::::::::::,~'': : : : : : : : : : : : :: : : : : '-|
..|::::::::,-': : : : : : : : - -~''''ŻŻ''-„: : : : :\
..|::::::::|: : : : : : : : : _„„--~'''''~-„: : : : '|
..'|:::::::,': : : : : : :_„„-: : : : : : : : ~--„_: |'
…|::::::|: : : „--~~'''~~'''''''-„…_..„~''''''''''''Ż|
…|:::::,':_„„-|: : :_„---~: ::|''ŻŻ''''|: ~---„_: ||
..,~-,_/'': : : |:: (_ o__): : |: : : :|:(_o__): \|
../,'-,: : : : : ''-,_______,-'': : : : ''-„_____|
..\: :|: : : : : : : : : : : : : :„: : : : :-,: : : : : : : :\
…',:': : : : : : : : : : : : :,-'__: : : :_',: : : : ;: ,'
….'-,-': : : : : :___„-: : :'': : Ż''~~'': ': : ~--|'
…….|: ,: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :  : :: : :|
…….'|: \: : : : : : : : -,„_„„-~~--~--„_: :: |
……..|: \: : : : : : : : : : : :-------~: : : : : |
……..|: :''-,: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :|
……..',: : :''-, : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :: ,'
………| : : : : : : : : :_ : : : : : : : : : : ,-'
………|: : : : : : : : : : '''~----------~''
……._|: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :|
….„-''. '-,_: : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : ,'
,-''. . . . . '''~-„_: : : : : : : : : : : : :,-'''-„
« Last Edit: (20:13:32/03-23-17) by gargaM0NK »

emsquared

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Re: [SR5] Priority Generation: Math You Really Ought to Know
« Reply #36 on: (11:19:03/03-23-17) »
I feel like you're selling yourself a bit short
Well if that's true it's probably cuz I blocked a lot of that time period out of my mind... lot of heated discussions about dirty "optimizers" in those days. Hopefully things have improved.

And I did see the shout out, thanks for that.

Again, thanks for your work w/ 5E.

Rooks

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It applies a -4 penalty to hearing-based perception. That might be what Myriad is referring to.

At the very least, sensors that use vibrations to pick up nearby motion would be at a severe disadvantage against someone with Traceless Walk
Except that ultrasound in active mode isn't  hearing based perception per se.
It's bouncing ultrasonic waves off of solid objects to make an image.
Which is why it compensates visibility environmental effects and ignores lighting.

Yeah, you're not making noise by putting pressure on the floor-that doesn't mitigate vibrations bouncing off of you.
course theres always the Ultrasonic noise generator that gives rating dice bonus to sneaking tests for 40xRating

Pap Renvela

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It applies a -4 penalty to hearing-based perception. That might be what Myriad is referring to.

At the very least, sensors that use vibrations to pick up nearby motion would be at a severe disadvantage against someone with Traceless Walk
Except that ultrasound in active mode isn't  hearing based perception per se.
It's bouncing ultrasonic waves off of solid objects to make an image.
Which is why it compensates visibility environmental effects and ignores lighting.

Yeah, you're not making noise by putting pressure on the floor-that doesn't mitigate vibrations bouncing off of you.
course theres always the Ultrasonic noise generator that gives rating dice bonus to sneaking tests for 40xRating

Of all the characters I've played from SR2, SR3 & SR5, I can honestly say- no one, but no one, carried an Ultrasonic Noise Generator.
I guess my next character is going to have to get one- because, why not?

Rooks

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Re: [SR5] Priority Generation: Math You Really Ought to Know
« Reply #39 on: (01:22:01/03-24-17) »
Wow, really? Ultrasound vision is like standard in most of the games I was in we pop thermal smoke Narcojet gas flash pak Forboding NoizQuito hacks
« Last Edit: (01:36:06/03-24-17) by Rooks »

Pap Renvela

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Re: [SR5] Priority Generation: Math You Really Ought to Know
« Reply #40 on: (02:04:47/03-25-17) »
I didn't say, my group never employed one- just that my characters didn't.

Thanael

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Re: [SR5] Priority Generation: Math You Really Ought to Know
« Reply #41 on: (14:50:04/04-04-17) »
Sticky?

Soahl

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This is a fantastic break-down of the system that I'm definitely going to be referencing for some time. Thanks for putting so much work into this! That said, I do have one question so far:

8. Resources:
Since the cost of items in NuYen doesn't increase post-gen, many purchases can safely be postponed until after creation. That said though, the rules for buying hits on Availability are pretty harsh (a contact with Connection:6, Loyalty: 6 AND Black Market Pipeline can only find Avail: 5 or lower items for you without markup, and a face would need 48d6 [12] to acquire Avail:12 gear), so it may behoove you to acquire difficult-to-come-by items now (This is what makes Restricted Gear so good).

I think you missed a step in your Availability calculations. My understanding, and how it's been ruled at my shop and the conventions I've attended, is that Availability (at least per Missions) is calculated through bought hits (for both purchaser and item as it's an opposed test), which makes it easy to eyeball what can be afforded. The Contact you listed would have 5 bought hits, as you listed, so they could purchase anything that gets 5 bought hits or less (baseline 20, arguably up to 23 depending on how you rule with rounding up vs. down). So, this being the case, a starting Contact of Connection 5, Loyalty 2 would be able to access Availability 12 gear (5 x 2 + 2).

Kiirnodel

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This is a fantastic break-down of the system that I'm definitely going to be referencing for some time. Thanks for putting so much work into this! That said, I do have one question so far:

8. Resources:
Since the cost of items in NuYen doesn't increase post-gen, many purchases can safely be postponed until after creation. That said though, the rules for buying hits on Availability are pretty harsh (a contact with Connection:6, Loyalty: 6 AND Black Market Pipeline can only find Avail: 5 or lower items for you without markup, and a face would need 48d6 [12] to acquire Avail:12 gear), so it may behoove you to acquire difficult-to-come-by items now (This is what makes Restricted Gear so good).

I think you missed a step in your Availability calculations. My understanding, and how it's been ruled at my shop and the conventions I've attended, is that Availability (at least per Missions) is calculated through bought hits (for both purchaser and item as it's an opposed test), which makes it easy to eyeball what can be afforded. The Contact you listed would have 5 bought hits, as you listed, so they could purchase anything that gets 5 bought hits or less (baseline 20, arguably up to 23 depending on how you rule with rounding up vs. down). So, this being the case, a starting Contact of Connection 5, Loyalty 2 would be able to access Availability 12 gear (5 x 2 + 2).

Whether or not you use bought hits for Availability Tests, the test to acquire gear is an opposed test. You roll your Negotiation against the Availability of the item as the opposed pool.

To get an Availability 12 item you do not need to be able to get 12 hits, just beat the other dice pool of 12 (huge difference). Generally speaking, if you can get a dice pool somewhere close to the Availability, you have a decent chance of getting it.

gargaM0NK

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Re: [SR5] Priority Generation: Math You Really Ought to Know
« Reply #44 on: (16:03:46/04-09-17) »
Thanks guys. I think I confused it with 20A. That's a lot more sensible.