[Uncle Vabka]

Have settled on rebuilding an old "social adept" for the up-coming campaign. All of us are going to run "prime runners" and will have varying amounts of Karma from previous campaigns (lowest is 350). I have never actually played SR4, but I think I know the rules quite well. We will almost certainly be implmenting optional rules that will make the game very lethal. Please let me know what you think.

Name: David Morgan
Street Name: Blacklight
Metatype: Human
Karma Spent: 445
Karma: 4

Body: 4 [20 BP, 12 KP]
Agility: 5 [20 BP, 27 KP]
Reaction: 4 (5) [20 BP, 12 KP]
Strength: 4 [10 BP, 9 KP]
Charisma: 6 [40 BP, 18 KP]
Intuition: 6 [40 BP, 18 KP]
Logic: 5 [40 BP]
Willpower: 5 [30 BP, 15 KP]

Edge: 5 [36 KP]
Magic: 9 [40 BP, 90 KP]
Essence: 6.0

Initiative: 10 (11)
Initiative Passes: 1 (3)

Positive Qualities:-
Adept [5 BP]
Bilingual [5 BP]
College Education [5 BP]
Linguistics [5 BP]
First Impression [5 BP]

Negative Qualities:-
Big Regret [-5 BP]
Poor Self-Control (Vindictive) [-10 BP]
Prejudice (Elves/Biased) [-5 BP]
Records on File (Neonet) [-10 BP]
Sinner [-5 BP]

Active Skills:-
Athletics Skill Group 2 [20 KP]
Blades (Knives) 3 (+2) [6 BP, 10 KP]
Computer (Comlink) 3 (+2) [4 BP, 12 KP]
Dodge (Ranged) 4 (+2) [16 BP, 2 KP]
Influence Skill Group (Con & Negotiation) 6 (9) [40 BP, 55 KP]
Intimidate 6 [16 BP, 22 KP]
Perception 4 [16 BP]
Pilot Ground Craft 4 [16 BP]
Pistols 4 (+2) [16 BP, 2 KP]
Stealth Skill Group 5 [40 BP, 25 KP]
Unarmed Combat (Savate) 3 (+2) [6 BP, 10 KP]

Knowledge Skills:-
Academic: Anthropology 4
Academic: History 4
Academic: Magic Background 4
Academic: Psychology 5
Interest: 20th Century Rock Music
Language: Dutch (Native)
Language: English (Native)
Language: German 5
Language: Spanish 5
Street: Organised Crime Groups 4
Street: Security Companies 4

Contacts (for the Campaign):-
Bartender (Connection 3, Loyalty 3) [6 BP]
Fixer (Connection 3, Loyalty 1) [4 BP]
Healing Shaman (Connection 2, Loyalty 2) [4 BP]
ID Manufacturer (Connection 3, Loyalty 3) [6 BP]

Initial Resources [4 BP]

Gear may be “free” up to a certain point, but just in case I have allocated 4 BPs to it just in case. Until then, I will refrain from producing a full list, although some idea about “must haves” for SR4 would be much appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

[joe15552]

Perhaps you guys are doing a sr4 BP/Karmagen hybrid with character advancement, so I dunno how you guys are doing your character improvement at your table. If you were going for pure sr4, the character improvement chart on pg 270 of SR4 20th lists:

"Improving an attribute by 1 | New rating x 5"

The part that this most affects would be the karma spent on your magic attribute. Starting at a magic rating of 5, I figure the karma cost to raise it to 9 would be 198 karma, including the cost to raise initiation rating to 3.

I added up your spent karma in your list twice, and it only adds up to 431 karma, though. So if you take that 20 unspent karma and add it to the karma you listed as using on raising magic rating, you get 110, so it's not unrealistic that you can pull the 88 more karma needed to raise your Magic rating to 9 from other places in your build. I'd take the karma out of your attribute raises since you are not gonna get as much bang for your buck using the sr4 character improvement.

But if you are using karmagen numbers for character improvement, then you still gotta spend that 48 karma to get your initiation grade to 3, so you can spend that 90 karma to raise it to 9.

I like the way you advanced your character though. I like well-rounded character advancement. I also like the idea of having your face be very smart. I think that's... er... for lack of a better word, smart.  

[Uncle Vabka]

Yeah, forgot to slide in the 3 levels of Initiation... remembered on the way home from work - my fault for startingthe post too close to knock off time and having to catch a train!

Took Masking, Extended Masking and Cognition as Metamagics, self-initiation w/ ordeal

Also noticed I did not stick in the Adept Powers

Commanding Voice [0.25 P]
Eidectic Sense Memory [0.5 PP]
Facial Sculpt 3 [0.75 PP]
Improved Ability (Con) 3 [0.75 PP]
Improved Ability (Negotiation) 3 [0.75 PP]
Increased Reflexes 1 [2 PP]
Linguistics [0.25 PP]
Kinesics 6 [3.0 PP]
Sustenance [0.25 PP]
Voice Control [0.5 PP]

As for the attribute improvement costs, pg. 263 of my SR4 book and pdf say new rating x 3 - I dont have the anniversary edition - is this something that changed?


Thanks for the comments and attention.

[Critias]

Just a heads up on Adept powers -- Kinesics tops out at level 3 (unless your GM is house ruling something).  With the points you get (back) from that, you might want to consider Melanin Control (goes along nicely with stuff like Linguistics and Facial Sculpt), or Cool Resolve (to still get a Kinesics-type bonus when someone else is trying to con or browbeat you).

[joe15552]

As for the attribute improvement costs, pg. 263 of my SR4 book and pdf say new rating x 3 - I dont have the anniversary edition - is this something that changed?

Oof... Well, guess I never noticed the discrepancy before. The original sr4 core says, "new rating x 3," like you said, then the errata says something that doesn't make any sense at all... it says, "The cost is 5 x 3 (not 5 x 5)." So... yeah, that really doesn't make sense to me, so I am totally confused now! I think the safest bet would be to use whatever number your GM says is cool.

[Ultra Violet]

The Attribute costs are now and also without SR4A (new rating x 5) Karma. And it depends on the creation system (BP or Karma) how much Attributes you can put up on the maximum rating at char gen. At BP-System you can have one Attribute AND one special Attribute at maximum rating (costs are raised for the last point up 25 BP). In Karma-System (see RC) you can only have one Attribute at maximum rating, there is no difference between special or normal Attributes, and the costs are the same as in the game (in RC stands: Improving an attribute by 1 New rating x 3, but actually it is x 5)
The costs are only important if you want to play with other player parties/groups i.e. on a CON, at your home table SR-group it is only a matter of how powerful your PC will be, and how fast he/she will be improve their Attributes.

[Uncle Vabka]

Just a heads up on Adept powers -- Kinesics tops out at level 3 (unless your GM is house ruling something).  With the points you get (back) from that, you might want to consider Melanin Control (goes along nicely with stuff like Linguistics and Facial Sculpt), or Cool Resolve (to still get a Kinesics-type bonus when someone else is trying to con or browbeat you).

Out of curiousity, where does it say that Kinesics tops out at 3? I thought that only applied to Improved [Ability], which has a max rating of 1.5 the base skill. Other than that, all I can see is on p187 of the core book (which aparently is outdated now due to the attribute cost debacle, buts it what I have) which says that "the maximum level an adept may have in any power is equal to teh adept's magic attribute". Improved Ability specifically states the 1/5 rule, but nothing under kinesics.

The Attribute costs are now and also without SR4A (new rating x 5) Karma.

May I ask where the new costs are listed?

[Glyph]

The change to Attribute improvement costs and the new cap for Kinesics can both be found in the SR4A Changes Document (or SR4A itself, natch).  It's not all bad for adepts, though - some powers decreased in cost, and it is cheaper to bind weapon foci now.

Not every GM has made the switch to the SR4A changes, and some might not intend to, so before you revise your character, be sure whether your GM is going to roll with SR4A's drastic changes, or stay "old school". 

One thing to keep in mind with improved ability in social skills is that your language rating acts as a cap.  In other words, if you have a skill that is improved to 9, you will generally only be able to get the full effect when speaking your native language.  On the other hand, someone speaking English in North America will probably not have to worry about it too much.  It is only when you get to more exotic locales that it becomes a factor.

[Critias]

Out of curiousity, where does it say that Kinesics tops out at 3?

Right next to the cost for Kinesics, in SR4A.  "Cost: .5 per level (max 3 levels)"

Before we all keep talking, though, are you guys playing an SR4A game, or old school SR4?  Because lots of our comments and suggestions are moot points if your GM isn't using SR4A...and, as you can see, the distinction kind of matters. 

On the bright side, not ALL the SR4A changes are "bad" for Adepts (before you go thinking it's the worst thing that could've happened to your character).  Improved Reflexes, for instance, went down in cost pretty substantially, as did Improved Physical Attribute.  They tend to be powers more favorable to "generalist" (combat oriented) Adepts, as opposed to the hardcore "pornomancer" builds...but I just want to make sure you don't think SR4A set out to screw over Adepts completely, or anything. 

[Uncle Vabka]

Checked with the GM and it looks like bog standard SR4 is the way we are going. Is this a particularly common decision? Also, I could not find the new rating x 5 karma in the changes doc - am I just not seeing it or being blind?

Thank goodness though - I was making rumblings about starting an SR3 campaign instead... I have not been overly impressed with SR4A changes from what I can see.

Pornomancer? I have seen a few builds around this term, but they all seemed to be focused on 30+ dice, whereas mine does not seem quite so emphasised on that, but I may be wrong - would the above build be considered a pornomancer one?

[joe15552]

The "new rating x 5" thing is not clearly stated in the errata. Ultra Violet helped me understand that they are, in fact, stated, but I do not possess the cognition to understand that the particular tid-bit in the errata = "new rating X 5". I accept that she is correct in saying that, mostly because I paid a good $45 at barnes and nobles for the 20th anniversary edition, and it says "new rating X 5". If I had not lost my original SR4 book, and I read the errata, and had not gotten my hands on the 20th anniversary edition, then I would still be confused about the errata... somehow being $45 less rich makes me understand it completely. 

[Glyph]

Pornomancer? I have seen a few builds around this term, but they all seemed to be focused on 30+ dice, whereas mine does not seem quite so emphasised on that, but I may be wrong - would the above build be considered a pornomancer one?

The pornomancer was a Dumpshock creation (I did the first one, with Frackula naming it thusly, but there have been other builds of it since then).  Although it was a semi-playable character, it was really more of a dice pool exercise like the Ultimate Climber and Brick the troll.  One of those "How many dice can you get for X" things, with the pornomancer specializing in con/seduction.

Since then, the meme has mutated slightly, and is often used as a general term to refer to faces that have high dice pools, often as an implied pejorative.  But high social skill pool characters are only a problem when they are one-trick ponies who overwhelm a "normal" campaign.  Your character is well-rounded, and is in a high-powered campaign, so I don't think the term "pornomancer" would apply, even though he has good dice pools for his social skills.

[Critias]

Oh, yeah.  I wasn't calling this build a pornomancer, sorry if I was unclear there. 

Just that the SR4-SR4A changes weren't very favorable to pornomancers (like by cutting Kinesics in half, for instance).  Lowering costs for physical abilities and lowering the "double dip" ability (by stacking Kinesics with Improved Ability: Social Skills) and stuff like that...it was obviously a shift away from the hardcore min/maxed social builds, and towards more combat oriented, generalist, physical Adept stuff.

[Mäx]

Just that the SR4-SR4A changes weren't very favorable to pornomancers (like by cutting Kinesics in half, for instance).  Lowering costs for physical abilities and lowering the "double dip" ability (by stacking Kinesics with Improved Ability: Social Skills) and stuff like that...it was obviously a shift away from the hardcore min/maxed social builds, and towards more combat oriented, generalist, physical Adept stuff.

I don't know, it's not really like the 3 dice lost really matter when you can get 50 dice anyway.

[Uncle Vabka]

Aaaa ok - thanks again for the advice and comments. I take it that the general consensus is that, for a high-level, vanilla SR4 game, this character is well rounded yet still capable at performing his chosen role?