[Critias]

No one wants to feel like there's no sense of danger, and GMs should beware the "Dallas Complex" (from the old primetime soap opera, when we learned a whole season or two was imagined instead of real)...but from time to time, when things just don't work out right and it's hard to pin down why, a clever GM can normally find a way to sneak in a reset.

In Earthdawn, especially with Horrors involved, you can sometimes get into their heads with it, even.  Maybe after a series of unlucky rolls (or a scratch-built Horror being a little tougher than you had planned) just ended in a total party kill, with the big bad evil nasty twisting the skin of the last PC all sideways and murdering them all horrible -- well, as the last body falls, describe a bright flash of light, a dizzying sensation as if the whole world were turning too fast or too slowly, and then deposit them back at the entrance of the kaer, investigating the protective runes across the first big gateway...runes of warning and premonition, with arcane inscriptions that now show them being destroyed by the Horror that claimed the place decades earlier.

Turn an accidental, bad-luck, total party kill into a creepy, spine-shivering, moment that simultaneously (a) grants them a second chance, and (b) adds to the feel of the setting.

In Shadowrun, of course, it's a little harder -- but there's still mind affecting magic, and Laesa, and hot-sim programs that a character could, feasibly, not know they're plugged into.  It's not quite the same when a run against a local ganger-held BTL factory causes the TPK instead of a supernatural horror that bends reality and twists emotions...but depending on the scenario and on what caused things to go sour and wreck everyone's fun, it's possible to find a totally in-game way to hit the "reset" button, so to speak.

[Bradd]

I think people tend to jump too quickly to "nobody could survive that!" At the same time, they're too easy on other things. Guns provide examples from both ends of the spectrum. People generally tend to assume that guns are much more lethal and destructive than they really are, while at the same time scoffing at things like getting shot in the hand. In reality, people survive gunshots all the time, but a hand shot is not a minor injury.

Therefore, I'm leery of any house rules for instant death, doubly so when they don't allow for players to avoid it via the usual failsafes (e.g, Hand of God).

[AJBuwalda]

I'm totally willing to let them instant kill with a firearm.

Rule of the mighty sneak attack
1. Sneak up to the guy
2. Make a called shot to the head point blank
3. If there is no Critical Glitch --> Instakill!

[Kot]

(...) well, as the last body falls, describe a bright flash of light, a dizzying sensation as if the whole world were turning too fast or too slowly, and then deposit them back at the entrance of the kaer, investigating the protective runes across the first big gateway...runes of warning and premonition, with arcane inscriptions that now show them being destroyed by the Horror that claimed the place decades earlier.

Turn an accidental, bad-luck, total party kill into a creepy, spine-shivering, moment that simultaneously (a) grants them a second chance, and (b) adds to the feel of the setting.

Yep. Right in the setting - a mind-trap for Horrors works as well for Namegivers (metahumans), as pointed in Ardanyan's Revenge (official, great adventure). So i'd go for it. And with the Illusionist's magic Earthdawn has a pretty good potential for re-running things (as there are at least two spells you can use to mindf*ck someone that way). And Horrors can use it as well.
I'd do it like that: the party fails, everyone dies. Now, don't explain anything. Make them re-run the final part, with one player (the most story-driven, or mature one) getting mind-bogged. The rest of the party manages to kill the thing this time. And that former, failed run? It happens in the incapacitated player's mind, and stops as soon as the beast is dead.

I think people tend to jump too quickly to "nobody could survive that!"

There's a rule on that. If anyone says something like that, award them with Karma, and keep the BadGuy scarred, but alive and wanting revenge even more.

[FastJack]

I'm totally willing to let them instant kill with a firearm.

Rule of the mighty sneak attack
1. Sneak up to the guy
2. Make a called shot to the head point blank
3. If there is no Critical Glitch --> Instakill!

Actually, going by RAW, you can pretty much count on Instakill™ happening:

1) Sneak up on the guy to guarantee a surprise on the target--this makes the attack test unopposed, so the target would only get a damage resistance test, so all your hits add to DV.
2) Point blank gives you two extra die, Called Shot can give you up to +4 DV with -4 dice to the test.
3) As a house rule, if they can meet the surprised condition and get within point-blank range (less than a meter), I might give them free exploding sixes on the roll...

The only reason I might not do the Instakill™ is because if the target DOES make the damage resistance test, he then makes a great arch-villain. Sometimes the best villain is that thug the team thought they killed in the warehouse raid and has declared a vendetta against them...

Also, it drives home Rule #2: Always Doubletap.

[Dead Monky]

I do the reset thing very, very rarely.  I've done it once in the last 6 months (playing Earthdawn) and once, maybe twice, in the two years before that.  It's only happened after long, long strings of really, really shitty games.  Everyone has to be on board and it's done with the understanding that it's just going to be harder the next time around (since I take the intervening time to tweak and refine things).

[Critias]

I do the reset thing very, very rarely.  I've done it once in the last 6 months (playing Earthdawn) and once, maybe twice, in the two years before that.  It's only happened after long, long strings of really, really shitty games.  Everyone has to be on board and it's done with the understanding that it's just going to be harder the next time around (since I take the intervening time to tweak and refine things).

Oh, yeah.  Totally.  I'm not saying "load last save" should be an option in every tabletop gaming session, around every table -- I've only ever done it once, myself, in my 20+ years of gaming.  It's to be used very, very, carefully.

But it sure beats a bunch of unhappy players and a game that goes belly up.

[Dead Monky]

Indeed.  When everyone's throwing their dice across the room in rage and frustration (for the sixth or seventh time), it may be time to take a breather and start over fresh.

[etherial]

Oh, yeah.  Totally.  I'm not saying "load last save" should be an option in every tabletop gaming session, around every table -- I've only ever done it once, myself, in my 20+ years of gaming.  It's to be used very, very, carefully.

But it sure beats a bunch of unhappy players and a game that goes belly up.

I used it once in an Earthdawn game when things went...wrong.  We were all really frustrated and no one was enjoying the direction the plot was heading, and I looked the GM in the eye and said "How 'bout we start the session over?". The outcome was more or less the same, but felt much less forced and people's reactions were much more in character.

[Kot]

I had a bit of that of late. One of my WoD players dodn't seem to have fun, and i decided to scrap the story arc entirely. Fortunately the other player managed to talk us both into continuing with a lot more character-to-character talk, and that seemed to do the trick - they managed both succeed at their task, make a new (and influential) contact, and straighten things up between their characters, who seemed to drift apart from the 'best buddies', because of their personal issues and plot threads.

P.S. May i suggest the last few posts to be put into another thread? The Off-topic is heavy, but worth further talking through.

[KarmaInferno]

Screw the hand of god.  I don't allow it.

Generally in an RPG forum the default assumption is that people are talking about the rules as written rather than their house rules, unless specifically stated otherwise.

To do differently creates confusion.




-k