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How long would any of a great dragons actually last vs modern day military?

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DamienHollow

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« Reply #45 on: <03-31-13/0040:14> »
I've got to ask this, how exactly did the Bid D's death delay the horrors. I see how it can speed up our development with all the money his will throws around, but the only delay I can think of was Harlequin.

Mad Hamish

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« Reply #46 on: <03-31-13/0053:00> »
Willing sacrifices can provide a fair amount of magical umph in many magical belief systems. The willing sacrifice of a Great Dragon when he's had time to set it up...

RHat

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« Reply #47 on: <03-31-13/0056:07> »
Plus, he's guarding the bridge, now.
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DamienHollow

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« Reply #48 on: <03-31-13/0153:18> »
You know I hate to say this, but in the grand scheme of things, why do we as runners care about the horrors? If i understand the situation (and Harlequin's prediction) correctly they either show up sometime soon and we get slaughtered... or powers far beyond our own hold them back the 2,500 we need to mount a proper defense. So as far as the game is concerned the threat is absolute annihilation or so far off there's no point in caring. I supposed it justifies a few plot lines to follow, but I have a hard time caring. And frankly I hate Harlequin so I'll take any excuse I can use to avoid him.

Mithlas

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« Reply #49 on: <03-31-13/0205:35> »
Well, beyond backdrop...it's already been mentioned at least once in this thread (if I remember right), and multiple times in other threads that magic activity can change in "spike" areas - these areas could allow some horrors to start breaking through early. I still think we're not going to see any sign of them until 7E at the earliest, but it's still a possibility.

Of course, a lot could change with Earthdawn separating from Shadowrun due to the owning companies going separate ways. Maybe.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #50 on: <03-31-13/0232:04> »
Well, Damien, you are right about it not really mattering to shadowrunners.  For 99.99% of the shadowrunners out there, anyway.  This information is relevant to those GM's who wish to center a game around the background metaplot.

If that's not the game your GM (or yourself) wishes to run, then it's just fun background trivia.  Take it, or not, as you will.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #51 on: <03-31-13/1819:39> »
I've got to ask this, how exactly did the Bid D's death delay the horrors. I see how it can speed up our development with all the money his will throws around, but the only delay I can think of was Harlequin.
A Great Dragon used all his power and his willing sacrifice to power a major magical focus, and, among other things, his spirit possessed a cyberzombie and went bodily into the metaplanes to stand guard on the bridge, all Gandalf vs. the Balor style.

The Horrors shouldn't show up in force any time soon. When they do show up in force, even the Great Dragons will be taking shelter underground for a few hundred years until the tide passes, because there are Horrors that can take a Great Dragon in single combat with similar results as if a Great Dragon took on an unarmed, unarmored, mundane human in single combat.

And yes, most runners shouldn't care, and wouldn't even know about such things. Until they got dropped right smack in the middle of them. I use the old Missing Blood adventure as a good analogy in this case. No reason for most runners to care what a (seemingly) harmless cult like the UB is doing, right? They provide soup kitchens, free clinics, and even keep down on the preaching. So there's no reason for a runner of the time to know they're kicking over a Wasp's nest until they're neck deep in it. That is what it is like with Horrors. At least for now. Mithlas is correct that the Horrors will not show up in force for a few hundred years, maybe a thousand. But it isn't like someone throws a switch, and then there's Horrors. It is like a rising tide.
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DamienHollow

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« Reply #52 on: <03-31-13/2048:53> »
So yeah, heat death of the universe kind of scenario. too far out to care or not much we can do about it when it's time.

rfv855

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« Reply #53 on: <04-01-13/0346:48> »
So yeah, heat death of the universe kind of scenario. too far out to care or not much we can do about it when it's time.

On the side note, if I was your GM and I was reading it, you would get a few Horrors in your very next mission  :P

RHat

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« Reply #54 on: <04-01-13/0353:59> »
So yeah, heat death of the universe kind of scenario. too far out to care or not much we can do about it when it's time.

On the side note, if I was your GM and I was reading it, you would get a few Horrors in your very next mission  :P

And thusly would your campaign end.

The Horrors are, at present, a completely insurmountable threat.  If they come through in 2075, everyone is screwed.  They are not something to use as an enemy for runners.
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rfv855

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« Reply #55 on: <04-01-13/0449:37> »
So yeah, heat death of the universe kind of scenario. too far out to care or not much we can do about it when it's time.

On the side note, if I was your GM and I was reading it, you would get a few Horrors in your very next mission  :P

And thusly would your campaign end.

The Horrors are, at present, a completely insurmountable threat.  If they come through in 2075, everyone is screwed.  They are not something to use as an enemy for runners.

There is a major difference between Named Horrors and a few minor ones though.

RHat

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« Reply #56 on: <04-01-13/0458:01> »
So yeah, heat death of the universe kind of scenario. too far out to care or not much we can do about it when it's time.

On the side note, if I was your GM and I was reading it, you would get a few Horrors in your very next mission  :P

And thusly would your campaign end.

The Horrors are, at present, a completely insurmountable threat.  If they come through in 2075, everyone is screwed.  They are not something to use as an enemy for runners.

There is a major difference between Named Horrors and a few minor ones though.
So yeah, heat death of the universe kind of scenario. too far out to care or not much we can do about it when it's time.

On the side note, if I was your GM and I was reading it, you would get a few Horrors in your very next mission  :P

And thusly would your campaign end.

The Horrors are, at present, a completely insurmountable threat.  If they come through in 2075, everyone is screwed.  They are not something to use as an enemy for runners.

There is a major difference between Named Horrors and a few minor ones though.

Not such that it matters at the 'runner level.  You're still screwed.
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I_V_Saur

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« Reply #57 on: <04-01-13/2104:04> »
Aren't Shedim minor horrors?

Generally speaking, upper-tier Runners end up in a lot of convoluted plots, intentionally or not. They're the playing pieces of the Greats, and similar powers. Deep mysteries are part and parcel of the level of play wherein your players can reliably, and safely, travel to Metaplanes, or provide enough damage that Greats would rather not fight them in-person.

Why not include Horrors into your campaign, once you've reached Prime Runner status with your entire party - like, say, Old Man Jones? Doesn't have to be on earth - they could be hired to investigate Dunkelzahn's death, or sent somewhere by Harlequin.

Mirikon

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« Reply #58 on: <04-01-13/2131:19> »
Shedim are not minor Horrors. Like the Invae, they are a precursor. And they should not have shown up yet. Indeed, they wouldn't be here at all right now except Ghostwalker ripped his way through the Rift, which opened a path for them. When he sealed the rift, it stopped any new Shedim from coming over, for now.
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Retrokinesis

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« Reply #59 on: <04-02-13/1207:08> »
Shedim are not minor Horrors. Like the Invae, they are a precursor. And they should not have shown up yet. Indeed, they wouldn't be here at all right now except Ghostwalker ripped his way through the Rift, which opened a path for them. When he sealed the rift, it stopped any new Shedim from coming over, for now.
Can't Master Shedim still bring others through with Astral Gateway? Of course, that implies if you could kill all the the Masters you could end the Shedim threat for a few hundred years...
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