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Drain Attribute of Norse

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Mollari

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« Reply #30 on: <02-04-18/1807:41> »
Hey guys.

On the note of the traditions, Romani can't use heath spells, can't own property that isn't mobile and can't stay in the same location for any extended period. SR isn't a balanced game in capabilities, but rather through consequences.

There are plenty of stuff that can make a killer mage. Be an aspected, drake, hedge mage, mentor's masked careful casting monster. But be prepared to be immediately identifiable, hunted, feared and unable to use your spells in large amounts of environments.

I am however interested in this:

But changing your drain attribute to Magic would mean a power focus would apply there too, meaning it would be too powerful.

I think this wasn't clarified well in the books, but a power foci increases magic generically. I always thought this was for application of dice pool. If this really raised magic for the purposes of calculating the magic limit for force nobody would focus on increasing magic and rather just drain resistance.

This would open a cool possibility of an artificer who uses foci to both cast spells and resist... but yeah I don't believe it actually increases magic actual.

firebug

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« Reply #31 on: <02-04-18/1829:34> »
It's that Power Foci add to any dice pool that includes your MAG attribute; if you resisted Drain with WIL + MAG, that would be included.

Romani's having to move around realistically just means you have to take the Traveler lifestyle (in Run Faster), but I admit their removal of health-spells make them almost unplayable.  I wouldn't say it makes it "balanced" for them to have WIL + WIL; I would say it is just kind of awful and makes me feel their design is still kind of crap.  However, it also specifies "traditionalist" Romani, so it's also a toss-up if that's all of them or not as the book doesn't explain what the "traditionalist" rules on some of the traditions are.
« Last Edit: <02-04-18/1854:59> by firebug »
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Mollari

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« Reply #32 on: <02-04-18/1944:08> »
Fair points

I play a romani tradition and really enjoy it. For practical purposes he can't maintain a mobile lifestyle and it severely impedes the legwork phase when runners might need to be staking out and I'm there insisting on a shower lol (they have that bathing requirement).

So ultimately what he does is fall on and off the path of his magic (he isn't solely reliant on it for his running).

The way I see it, magic isn't really designed to stand on it's own. Without some masking and flexiable casting metas under your belt and some serious drain resistance you won't be casting all day. You'll still be relying on technological senses and a good old gun. The traditions allow you to make a character first and a mage second. So a charisma based tradition allows mage faces. Logic makes great decker support and intuition makes fantastic combat mages.

Drakes are just weird and I agree with the text that you really have to pass it by your GM whether you can use it. On that note however, Drakes really only get their awesome abilities when transformed, and if in meta form the benefits are less. The huge karma cost just to use magic as a drains stat and using power foci to cast really isn't cheaper than just getting centering foci.

Additionally, it's easier to get your drain attributes up through drugs or augments, but raising magic significantly beyond what other attributes have (whilst the other attributes feed into skills that magic doesn't) is harder.
« Last Edit: <02-04-18/1947:25> by Mollari »

firebug

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« Reply #33 on: <02-04-18/1952:53> »
You're probably very inexperienced playing an Awakened character, then.  While knowing how to use a gun is important, it's very easy to cast spells the entire run with only minimal drain (or no drain) by picking lower-Force spells.  If someone has 9+ Drain Resist dice, that's 3 hits on average.  That's a F6 Clout (or any other single-target LOS Indirect Combat Spell), or F8 if you learn it Limited.  Nine is also quite low for Drain Resist; usually I see if at 11 or above, especially when you combine it with sustained Increase Attribute spells.  So I'm afraid you're wrong about magic not standing on its own; when you take into account doing all of this while having one or more (via Binding) spirits backing you up, it becomes clear why "Geek The Mage" is still a street motto.  Someone who can cast Health spells can usually have 14+ dice (6 LOG/INT/CHA, 4 WIL, Increase Willpower F4) and then easily get away with F7+ combat spells every turn, or even higher if they learn one as Limited.  If you're concerned about losing your casting fetish, you can learn the same (or a different) spell in normal, non-limited format.

If you've made a Logic magician and have the leftover skillpoints and nuyen to be anything resembling a decker, you probably can't rely on magic because you simply chose not to invest in it.

Also, the vast majority of magician characters are not expect to regularly lose access to their magical abilities.  You do reminds me that the tradition limitations like that in Forbidden Arcana do nothing to say what happens if you break them.  Though the only one you can really have forced upon you would be "staying in one place for more than a week", which is actually too vague to mean anything.  Is the "same place" a street?  A house?  A room?  The entire sprawl?  The district?  It's dumb.
« Last Edit: <02-04-18/1954:56> by firebug »
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Mollari

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« Reply #34 on: <02-04-18/2004:13> »
Fair enough (though not very nicely put). Our group is largely magic low and yes spirits can be a game changer.

Anyway what is this "Limited" you mentioned? Is that a fetish?

And yeah, it doesn't state what happens if you fail your tradition's requirements, but like anything, if you don't roleplay the consequences then the powerful choices are just plain better.

Drakes being the obvious target.

firebug

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« Reply #35 on: <02-04-18/2014:42> »
Sorry if I came across as rude.  I get a little defensive if I feel like someone who's uninformed adds to a conversation and makes a mistake...  But it's better to try and be involved and make mistakes and ask questions than to just lurk and be shy, so I respect that and hope you can accept my apology.  The attitude was uncalled for.

"Limited" is an option for spells using the rules for a fetish on page 212 of Street Grimoire.  It's a bit unclear, but it's been a mechanic in previous editions so I can at least explain how it's supposed to work.  If you buy a fetish (2000 nuyen) you can learn a spell as "Limited", where you are only able to cast the spell while the fetish (which can be a variety of objects, similar to foci) is on your person somewhere.  In exchange, the spell's Drain Value is reduced by 2 (with the minimum DV still being 2).  So single target LOS combat spells like Clout and Lightning Bolt go from F-3 to F-5, making them a huge amount more powerful and even easier to spam.  The limited-version of the spell is its own spell, and you can learn a non-limited version of the spell as well if you want to (but it costs just as much karma and money as if you didn't know the spell at all).  It's not clear, but each Limited spell needs its own fetish--  It's more expensive than just one fetish for as many Limited as you like, but this way it's way harder to disable you just by stealing something from you.
« Last Edit: <02-04-18/2017:40> by firebug »
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Mollari

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« Reply #36 on: <02-04-18/2021:52> »
Hey not a problem.

Ahhh, so it is the fetish rules. I love those. Unlike foci they can be replaced. But again that's where the consequences element of the game's balancing occurs. It's a fantastic option for reducing drain, however you'll have to smuggle them into events.

I don't recall, but they aren't actually magical are they? Unlike foci which have their own presence on the astral (when active) foci are just a thing that is related to your tradition and is the trade off of being more conspicuous in exchange for power.

firebug

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« Reply #37 on: <02-04-18/2025:59> »
Fetish are explicitly magical, and have some amount of orichalcum in them like reagents do (as you need radical reagents to make one).  So they would be as noticable on the astral as reagents are.  Which I believe is enough to be identifiable with Astral Perception, but not enough to physically interact with mana barriers like foci can.

If you learn the spell normally as well, then you can just be forced to use lower-Force castings of the spell if you lose your fetish (or just can't risk smuggling it in with you), so you can make sure the drawback doesn't screw you.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Mollari

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« Reply #38 on: <02-04-18/2027:30> »
But they don't take your astral signature and leave trails do they?

PiXeL01

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« Reply #39 on: <02-04-18/2049:58> »
No, they just appear as having a magical nature but doesn’t take on your aura at all, nor are they magical enough to have an active aura and interact with astral space. You can see them as an amplifier you channel mana through that works when you punch in the right formula.
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