Author Topic: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes  (Read 330 times)

Datastream

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Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« on: (02:12:36/11-05-17) »
Sorry for posting so many rule questions recently, just trying to work out what we can and can't do before we start playing.

How do clothes impact retrieving an item from a large smuggling compartment?

For example, Dandyman is wearing his custom fit Sleeping Tiger suit and has a synthetic leg with a large smuggling compartment containing his Ingram Smartgun X. Wireless is on, so retrieving an item should be a simple action as per SR5 p437. However, can he retrieve this item without ripping his pants? Dandy doesn't want to have to visit the tailor every time he pulls out the Uzi.

SpellBinder

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #1 on: (06:48:38/11-05-17) »
Pants would have to be custom made with some kind of access point.  How complicated this would be may be up to the GM.

Had a player with an elf character and a full on cyberleg with a holster installed in it, ala-robocop style.  Had the pocket removed from that side of his pants so he could reach in and pull the reasonably sized gun out, though there was an obviously noticeable bulge when the holster opened up.

Datastream

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #2 on: (08:43:24/11-05-17) »
That makes sense, if you're wearing tailored clothes (anything with custom fit) you can have it designed without a right side pocket for example.

adzling

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #3 on: (10:24:59/11-05-17) »
Gear Access is another armor mod you could use (think velcro flaps).
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Officerzan

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #4 on: (16:50:03/11-05-17) »
For ease of play, just don't think about it unless it impacts the play somehow. Wearing the same clothing/armor the character always does? No problem, just works. Wearing the knocked out doctor's bio-hazard suit to sneak into the controlled lab? Now there's an issue!

Mirikon

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #5 on: (23:41:49/11-05-17) »
For ease of play, just don't think about it unless it impacts the play somehow. Wearing the same clothing/armor the character always does? No problem, just works. Wearing the knocked out doctor's bio-hazard suit to sneak into the controlled lab? Now there's an issue!
I'm gonna disagree here. For, say, a cyberleg, you'd either need to pay to have clothes modified for access, wear shorts, or drop trou when accessing the compartment. Either one of the three works, but that's one of the limiting factors in having big spaces in your body that you can hide things: clothing tends to make those spaces less accessible. Just like any gloves you wore would be ruined if you popped cyberspurs and they weren't altered to fit. Or how that 'hidden arm slide' ain't so hidden if you're not wearing a coat with long sleeves.
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Officerzan

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #6 on: (12:03:38/11-06-17) »
I'm not saying it's not...  ::)

I'm saying that it's an unneeded level of detail. I would never tell a player that their character can't pick up the grenade because they didn't state they were paying extra for the cargo pants when they purchased clothing...

Same reason ammunition you buy for the Colt Government 2066 can be put into the Ruger Super Warhawk. Ease of play.

Hobbes

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #7 on: (17:03:17/11-06-17) »
I'm not saying it's not...  ::)

I'm saying that it's an unneeded level of detail. I would never tell a player that their character can't pick up the grenade because they didn't state they were paying extra for the cargo pants when they purchased clothing...

Same reason ammunition you buy for the Colt Government 2066 can be put into the Ruger Super Warhawk. Ease of play.

+1.   

The player is of course free to describe these things, but no need to check the character sheet for "Velcro Pocket Straps" so the character can use the gear they paid for.

Slipperychicken

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #8 on: (23:32:20/11-15-17) »
This sounds like a job for a hidden arm slide or cyberarm slide. If not that, then have the smuggling compartment open with a sliding panel, so the contents can simply fall down the user's pants-leg or sleeve.

I think it is reasonable, at times when it matters, to have players explain at least in general terms how their PCs retrieve and store items in their possession. That's potentially important lore information, which can inform NPC perceptions and may be crucial for adjudicating the events of the game.

Mirikon

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #9 on: (10:53:44/11-16-17) »
I'm not saying it's not...  ::)

I'm saying that it's an unneeded level of detail. I would never tell a player that their character can't pick up the grenade because they didn't state they were paying extra for the cargo pants when they purchased clothing...

Same reason ammunition you buy for the Colt Government 2066 can be put into the Ruger Super Warhawk. Ease of play.

+1.   

The player is of course free to describe these things, but no need to check the character sheet for "Velcro Pocket Straps" so the character can use the gear they paid for.
The problem is that it becomes very important in certain situations. A Chameleon Suit is basically an armored bodysuit, so pulling things from under the suit is problematic, to say the least. Same with HAZMAT gear or full body armor, to say nothing of corpsec or milspec hardened armor. And you'd definitely have to get high society clothes tailored to leave access. It is one of those things that can be a visual identifier, if the alterations weren't done well, perhaps spoiling a run because some manager noticed your clothes weren't quite right. It is the same reason why wearing an Ares brand suit inside an Aztechnology facility is going to mark you as an outsider to any white collar type. It is the fashion equivalent of Chekhov going up to people in San Francisco in Star Trek IV and asking them "vhere are the nuclear wessles?" in his Russian accent. Almost literally, considering the insular and tribalistic nature of megacorporate culture in the Sixth World.

Of course, this also can work for the players, as NPCs who wanted to use their smuggling compartments or other hidden gear would need to have their gear tailored to fit. That can be a limiting factor on engagements, and could give you visual clues about what kind of options those big, beefy bodyguards might have access to, and so on. And yes, one might be able to tell which corp someone works for by what kind of suit they wear, unless they are Mr. J trying to throw you off.

Not saying it would be an onerous cost, but perhaps a couple hundred nuyen and a slot of capacity to add the 'Gear Access' feature to the clothing or armor in question. Gear Access, after all, is meant to make things easier to pull from inside the armor.
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Officerzan

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #10 on: (14:31:25/11-16-17) »
Then you also have to get into where the compartment is. It's it in the hip? The ankle? Base of the foot? Inner thigh? Maybe 3 inches left and 1 inch down from crack?

If it is important to the story or situation (see HazMat suit) then by all means. But if you decided it was a constant tracker and I were a player of yours, I'd also expect you to track number of pockets and their sizes as part of every clothing/armor option. IRL, my work pants can fit a Ruger. My fiancee's jeans would be stressed to fit a fine bag. My work out pants have no pockets. Want me to tell you how many pockets my Cybered Troll Sam's Tuesday pair of jeans have? Couldn't tell you. Why? Because it down matter.

When you get into that much tracking, you lose fun. It's like the GMs who force female characters to have a recorded menstrual cycle because pheromone detectors are affected by such things.

Mirikon

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #11 on: (16:27:44/11-16-17) »
'Constant tracking'? You tell the GM where the compartment is, pay to tailor the clothes properly, or wear clothes you can still get to the compartment in, or you don't access the compartment until you're someplace you can safely do so. That's no more 'constant tracking' than remembering which guns and how many spare clips for those guns you brought for the run. It is no more 'constant tracking' than asking where you're hiding the ten grenades and an assault rifle when you're getting from A to B downtown. It is no more 'constant tracking' than making sure you know what the local background count or noise rating is.
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Officerzan

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #12 on: (08:35:18/11-29-17) »
Let me put it this way...Do you also make players pay to tailer their clothes when a physical stat changes? No? Odd...Why not? It would make sense that going from Hulk stats to Bruce stats from a spell would cause your pants to be quite a bit looser. Would also make sense that Johnny upping his natural Strength stat a point or two would need to get refitted for all his armor and clothing. Right, because it's needless bookkeeping in an already rule-bogged system.

This is such a pointless argument. You do you omae. We'll be over here not being phonebooked by our players. :)
« Last Edit: (08:37:45/11-29-17) by Officerzan »

Slipperychicken

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #13 on: (15:13:49/11-29-17) »
Let me put it this way...Do you also make players pay to tailer their clothes when a physical stat changes? No? Odd...Why not? It would make sense that going from Hulk stats to Bruce stats from a spell would cause your pants to be quite a bit looser. Would also make sense that Johnny upping his natural Strength stat a point or two would need to get refitted for all his armor and clothing. Right, because it's needless bookkeeping in an already rule-bogged system.

This is such a pointless argument. You do you omae. We'll be over here not being phonebooked by our players. :)

Now that you mention it, getting clothes and equipment refit seems like the kind of thing that would be handwaved under lifestyle expenses. There is precedent for that in the metatype lifestyle cost increases. Of course, "minor" physical changes like losing weight or putting on muscle wouldn't be worth an adjustment; you just say "yeah you use some of your monthly budget to put a zipper in your FBA or get looser pants or whatever"

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Re: Cyberlimb Smuggling Compartments and Clothes
« Reply #14 on: (16:34:08/11-29-17) »
It's going to boil down to the level of detail the GM is will to enforce in his game.  SOME GMs go for a hyper detailed world where everything has to accounted for and measured, every bullet for every gun tracked separately, every meal accounted for.. OTHER GMs don't care about details and hand wave everything and anything they think isn't important.

My question, as a guy with more then a passing interest in guns would be how you are fitting a loaded UZI into a thigh compartment, as the weapon is longer, and "deeper" (end of clip to top of receiver) than a typical thigh...


But yes, normally such minor details are covered by your lifestyle, these details being tailoring, meals, basic clothing, and all those other general "life things". Which makes lifestyles one of the most important things out there without a clearly defined list of benefits for each level...
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