Author Topic: Technomancer feedback for a new book!  (Read 54840 times)

HP15BS

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #510 on: (16:34:55/10-22-17) »
Enhance Firmware

Data Surge

Cryptext

Eh, Enhance Firmware / AMP sounds a tad OP, at least if combined with Diagnostics.  I'd at least recommend disallowing those to stack.

Data Surge as written would shut down all of your own devices and those of your team.  I'd probably never take it.

Maybe I just haven't been at this long enough, but I can't think of many times where I'd want to use Cryptext

AVOID (Alternate Verification Of IDentity)

Just use Resonance Veil.

Whitespace
Target: Self
Duration: S
Fade Value: L
By altering your Living Persona, you can evade detection from wireless on Sensors. Make a Threading test and note your hits. Sensors within [Level] x 2 meters of you must make a Device Rating x 2 Opposed test against your hits. If you win you are invisible, soundless, heatless, etc to Sensors. Any recordings will not have you present, however your Resonance Signature will be. This also will affect cybereyes, cyberears, ultrasound, etc for as long as they are wireless on or you either stop sustaining this or move out of range.
   

Yes! Pretty limited by only targeting Self, but still. Technos definitely need something like this.  But it'd help to fluff it so that it makes sense for your matrix presence to directly mask your body from physical sensors; otherwise, it'd be more logical to target the sensors directly.

Honeypot

Meh, that function is basically filled by Misread Marks already.

Hollowgrafix
Target:
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 1
Through folding the 1's and 0's into each other, you create a digital image of your design. This can exist in either AR or VR. In AR cameras, microphones, sensors, or any image/sound link device will see, hear, or touch (or even smell and taste if you feel like it) what ever entity you bring "into existence". This deception can be recognized as fake with an Opposed Perception test against your Threading test, otherwise the image seen or sound hear is just as real as all other inputs occurring. In VR this illusion will have an associative icon and can be determined as fake with an Opposed Matrix Perception test. Failure to beat your hits means that the devices and personas treat the icon as real. General matrix interactions occur as normal, but offensive actions (such as placing a MARK) can prompt another Matrix Perception test to see through it.
The deception may be created with small, simple instructions such as pace back-and-forth or speak a short conversation. Controlling or re-instructing the Complex Form requires a Simple Action.
Examples include a giant T-rex rampaging through downtown (in AR) or a crowd of club-goers storming Dante's digital dance floor (VR).

Déjā-view
Target: Device
Duration: S
Fade Value: L
By capturing recent recordings, you loop a small clip of video footage, audio track, or sensor reading to continually play instead of the live inputs. Make an Opposed Threading test against the target's Intuition + Data Processing. Success allows you to replay a recent reading of up to your net hits in minutes for as long as your sustain it. While sustained a user may reroll a Intuition + Data Processing test if any suspicion is aroused. If the opposed device beats your hits it suffers no looping, although there are slight influences of the data. Small flickers of color, quite background static, or a constant oscillation of the current temperature will occur as long as sustained.

Love it! We absolutely need that Hollowgraphics:)  And Déjā-view is basically a specialized and sustained Editor.  Very nice.
« Last Edit: (20:20:31/11-01-17) by HP15BS »

HP15BS

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #511 on: (00:29:18/10-23-17) »
Resonance Flood
Target: Device
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 3
Resonance Surge
Target: Host
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 1

Null Pointer

Jolt
...
PushR

Resonance Tether

So Resonance Flood / Surge would be corollaries to Chaotic World, etc.  CF corollaries to spells are cool to see, but I expect it'd be considered a tad OP, at least with fading at those values. (Affecting a whole host and all of its assets seems like a far larger scope than just an AoE spell.)

I have somewhat mixed feelings about Null Pointer.  On one hand it feels a tad OP.  On the other, it's a sort of Resonance version of Garbage In, Garbage Out, except it's limited to matrix actions and doesn't require marks.  So idk.

Meh, Jolt goes a little against my idea of technos being the purveyors of sneaky rules-breaking shenanigans. Your foe starts taking biofeedback for no clear reason and you'll tip them off that A) they're dealing with a techno somewhere, and B) they need to watch the heck out.  I, for one, don't like either of those things.

PushR is a cool idea, but I doubt I'd ever take it. If I really wanted to force someone to change interface modes, I'd probably just Puppeteer them into it.  Actually, I'd probably take it a step further and force them to Jack Out.  Better to take them out of the fight for a while than to merely give them a minor dice pool modifier that they could just undo with a simple action right after that.

I guess Resonance Tether could be kinda cool. Especially when you want to be particularly nasty and combine it with Tattletale on an enemy decker. (Insert evil laugh here.)

Obfu-skate
Target: Self
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 2
When running silent isn't enough, you choose to ride the flow of Resonance to make your connections. Others attempting to find you through a Matrix Perception test suffer a dice pool penalty equal to your hits. This penalty applies to foes and allies alike. Much like running silent, once someone has a MARK on you, you appear clear as day.

Now this... this is exactly what we need!  I wish we could've had this from the beginning!  Not only is it a great effect, it also has a great name :) 

And here's some echoes!

Algorhythm:
    You gain a bonus equal to your submersion grade to actions when using devices in which you benefit from a wireless-on bonus. In addition to this, you benefit from smartlink as if you had paid essence for it.   :D

Infinite Persona:

You really like to play on words, don't you? lol.  Algorhythm is pretty cool.  I've been bemoaning how there aren't any echoes that scale with submersion grade ever since I started looking at mages and initiation.  Even so, it'd probably be considered more than a little OP if it's allowed to stack with Diagnostics.  It should also probably be limited to only affect a certain number of devices at once. Maybe either Grade / 2, rounded up, or Res / 2, rounded up?

The most fitting part of this, imo, is that it would officially allow you to get smartlink bonuses.  In my mind, technos should always be allowed to do so (especially with skinlink - which I also feel they should get for free) because, why the frak wouldn't someone whose brain serves as a computer and a wifi modem be able to read those particular signals?

Not a fan of Infinite Persona.  I think it's fair for re-arranging of matrix stats to be a special thing deckers have.  Plus, it doesn't really mesh very well with how I think of technos - matrix stats being tied to their mental prowess and all.

RAID:
Through subverting networking protocols, you can create a PAN and slave a number of devices equal to twice your Resonance plus your submersion grade. This results in faint impressions of your Resonance Signature on those slaved.
//Resonance Array of Independent Devices

Wardiving:

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times, yes! RAID is exactly what technos need!
Question: do you mean 2Res + grade, or 2(Res + grade)?  I kinda feel like either would be a tad OP, but the former may be acceptable enough.

Wardiving is cool, too.  Fairly balanced by its limitations.  But it won't take all that long to build your grade high enough for that static, unavoidable penalty to completely neuter IC from anything but really powerful hosts.  I'd suggest nerfing it down to just 1/2 grade, rounded up.  Much more manageable for the gm.

Kludge
Target: Device
Duration: P
Fade Value: L - 2
Sometimes getting the job done is better than doing it right. At the cost of cutting corners, you can accomplish what you need when necessary.
Make an Opposed Threading test against the Device's Willpower + Data Processing. You gain a bonus to Matrix Actions targeting the Device equal to your net hits, but each action adds your net hits to your OS. This bonus persists until either party Reboots.

Ex: Jade threads Kludge against an Office Assistance commlink and gets 3 net hits. Whether she tries a Hack on the Fly or Trace Icon action, she will add three dice to her test and gain 3 to her OS in addition to what OS she may accrue from her actions.

Poly-Gone

Everything has a cost, and I'd say your Kludge includes a pretty appropriate cost for such a potent benefit.  Good job.  You may want to say "but each illegal action," for the sake of clarity.

As for Poly-Gone, I doubt I'd bother learning it.  If something has me link-locked, I think I'd just go ahead and take the dumpshock from jacking out.  A threshold of whoever's attack is pretty steep, and if they've managed to lock me down in the first place, then I probably don't even want to stick around anyway.

All in all, good work!  Some of those ideas are pure gold.
« Last Edit: (20:31:17/11-01-17) by HP15BS »

HP15BS

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #512 on: (15:36:11/10-23-17) »
Duplicate Program
[Program] of Resonance

Now for my version - as a re-worked echo.  (I see the appeal to making programs into CFs, but I rather prefer their being permanent over only lasting a few minutes at a time, and then possibly causing fading to boot.)

Resonance Program Suite:
   This echo lets you duplicate the effects of various cyberprograms.  You may have a number of common or hacking programs equal to your submersion grade active at the same time.  You may turn one resonance program on or off, or switch one resonance program for another one you know as a free action.  You learn one such resonance program of your choice as part of gaining this echo, and can learn additional ones as though learning a new Complex Form (spend 4 karma after a Software + Intuition [Mental] test; divide hits by 12 to determine how many days it takes to learn).
   If you have the RAID echo, you may also apply any active resonance programs to any number of those slaved devices.


And now for something I've wanted ever since my first days of playing a techno:

Sprite Evolution:
   This echo lets you incorporate your individual echoes or resonance programs into your sprites.  When you compile a new sprite, you may build a number of your known echoes or resonance programs (combined) into the sprite's code equal to its Level / 3.  Registering a sprite increases this capacity by 1, but re-registering has no such effect.  This composition is permanent for each individual sprite, though sprites may turn an individual resonance program on or off with a free action.  (Doing so does not count against services owed.)
   You must have already submerged at least once prior to taking this echo.

(And yeah, the Sprite echo could still use a better name.)
« Last Edit: (14:29:44/10-26-17) by HP15BS »

dragrubis

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #513 on: (04:33:12/10-24-17) »
Resonnance Ice
You may duplicate effect off RICE to protect your how mind while in cybercombat, you may reproduce up to "resonnance" ICE at a time but you may not know more than (submersion grade/2 round down) ICE type at a time. Your RICE is not considered Legal (be aware of your OS), and you can choose to activate or deactivate one with a normal action. Your ICE attack every turn at you initiative, BEFORE you activate or deactivate one.

What do you think?

HP15BS

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #514 on: (12:41:00/10-24-17) »
Cool idea, but there's no way technos can have a whole 'nother set of matrix minions.  The only way "resonance ICE" can work is if they're governed by the same rules as sprites. 

So, pick your favorite forms of ICE and then retool them as new sprites (keeping in mind that Data Processing = Logic = Initiative bonus, and Sleaze = Intuition, etc).

dragrubis

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 92
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #515 on: (10:47:51/10-25-17) »
Maybe it is possible to count them in the limit of sprites a technomancer can have too. And call them Ice-prites.

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 741
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #516 on: (16:04:00/10-25-17) »
Enhance Firmware

Data Surge

Cryptext

Eh, Enhance Firmware / AMP sounds a tad OP, at least if combined with Diagnostics.  I'd at least recommend disallowing those to stack.
Fair point. Some retooling would help.

Data Surge as written would shut down all of your own devices and those of your team.  I'd probably never take it.
An oversight on my part. This should be reworked. Nice catch.

Maybe I just haven't been at this long enough, but I can't think of many times where I'd want to use Cryptext
I imagine it has a lot of creative uses :P

AVOID (Alternate Verification Of IDentity)
Just use Resonance Veil.
I think Veil is too vague to make playable.

Whitespace
   
Yes! Pretty limited by only targeting Self, but still. Technos definitely need something like this.  But it'd help to fluff it so that it makes sense for your matrix presence to directly mask your body from physical sensors; otherwise, it'd be more logical to target the sensors directly.
You’re right. An example would do a lot of good for this.

Honeypot
Meh, that function is basically filled by Misread Marks already.
Sorta, except, as written Misread Marks leads to a non-game state with IC performing actions that can’t target what they targeting, and targets that can’t be affected by such actions.
Ŋ\_(ツ)_/Ŋ

Hollowgrafix

Déjā-view

Love it! We absolutely need that Hollowgraphics:)  And Déjā-view is basically a specialized and sustained Editor.  Very nice.
Thank you :)

Duplicate Program
[Program] of Resonance

Now for my version - as a re-worked echo.  (I see the appeal to making programs into CFs, but I rather prefer their being permanent over only lasting a few minutes at a time, and then possibly causing fading to boot.)

Resonance Program Suite:
   This echo lets you duplicate the effects of various cyberprograms.  You may have a number of common or hacking programs equal to your submersion grade active at the same time.  You may turn one resonance program on or off, or switch one resonance program for another one you know as a free action.  You learn one such resonance program of your choice as part of gaining this echo, and can learn additional ones as though learning a new Complex Form (spend 4 karma after a Software + Intuition [Mental] test; divide hits by 12 to determine how many days it takes to learn).
   If you have the RAID echo, you may also apply any active resonance programs to any number of those slaved devices.
I like this approach to it. Worth looking more into it.

And now for something I've wanted ever since my first days of playing a techno:

Sprite Evolution:
   This echo lets you incorporate your individual echoes or resonance programs into your sprites.  When you compile a new sprite, you may build a number of your known echoes or resonance programs (combined) into the sprite's code equal to its Level / 3.  Registering a sprite increases this capacity by 1, but re-registering has no such effect.  This composition is permanent for each individual sprite, though sprites may turn an individual resonance program on or off with a free action.  (Doing so does not count against services owed.)
   You must have already submerged at least once prior to taking this echo.

(And yeah, the Sprite echo could still use a better name.)
Looks pretty cool. Very -Optional Powers- from spirits.


Resonance Flood
Target: Device
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 3
Resonance Surge
Target: Host
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 1

Null Pointer

Jolt
...
PushR

Resonance Tether

So Resonance Flood / Surge would be corollaries to Chaotic World, etc.  CF corollaries to spells are cool to see, but I expect it'd be considered a tad OP, at least with fading at those values. (Affecting a whole host and all of its assets seems like a far larger scope than just an AoE spell.)
Yeah if Complex Forms are just Matrix Spells, there could have been some more translation in the core book. Though this do need some polish.

I have somewhat mixed feelings about Null Pointer.  On one hand it feels a tad OP.  On the other, it's a sort of Resonance version of Garbage In, Garbage Out, except it's limited to matrix actions and doesn't require marks.  So idk.
Fair enough. I’ve been trying to playtest them at my table. This one hasn’t come up yet.

Meh, Jolt goes a little against my idea of technos being the purveyors of sneaky rules-breaking shenanigans. Your foe starts taking biofeedback for no clear reason and you'll tip them off that A) they're dealing with a techno somewhere, and B) they need to watch the heck out.  I, for one, don't like either of those things.
I was just thinking of some swoopy, unexplainable stuff happening because technomancers *eerie sounds*

PushR is a cool idea, but I doubt I'd ever take it. If I really wanted to force someone to change interface modes, I'd probably just Puppeteer them into it.  Actually, I'd probably take it a step further and force them to Jack Out.  Better to take them out of the fight for a while than to merely give them a minor dice pool modifier that they could just undo with a simple action right after that.
The original idea is a mix between forcing someone into a tortoise like interface and “Getting booted from OTC”.

I guess Resonance Tether could be kinda cool. Especially when you want to be particularly nasty and combine it with Tattletale on an enemy decker. (Insert evil laugh here.)

Obfu-skate
Target: Self
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 2
When running silent isn't enough, you choose to ride the flow of Resonance to make your connections. Others attempting to find you through a Matrix Perception test suffer a dice pool penalty equal to your hits. This penalty applies to foes and allies alike. Much like running silent, once someone has a MARK on you, you appear clear as day.

Now this... this is exactly what we need!  I wish we could've had this from the beginning!  Not only is it a great effect, it also has a great name :) 
This is just a retooled Invisibility “spell”. :P

And here's some echoes!

Algorhythm:
    You gain a bonus equal to your submersion grade to actions when using devices in which you benefit from a wireless-on bonus. In addition to this, you benefit from smartlink as if you had paid essence for it.   :D

Infinite Persona:

You really like to play on words, don't you? lol.  Algorhythm is pretty cool.  I've been bemoaning how there aren't any echoes that scale with submersion grade ever since I started looking at mages and initiation.  Even so, it'd probably be considered more than a little OP if it's allowed to stack with Diagnostics.  It should also probably be limited to only affect a certain number of devices at once. Maybe either Grade / 2, rounded up, or Res / 2, rounded up?

The most fitting part of this, imo, is that it would officially allow you to get smartlink bonuses.  In my mind, technos should always be allowed to do so (especially with skinlink - which I also feel they should get for free) because, why the frak wouldn't someone whose brain serves as a computer and a wifi modem be able to read those particular signals?

Not a fan of Infinite Persona.  I think it's fair for re-arranging of matrix stats to be a special thing deckers have.  Plus, it doesn't really mesh very well with how I think of technos - matrix stats being tied to their mental prowess and all.
All fair points

RAID:

Wardiving:

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times, yes! RAID is exactly what technos need!
Question: do you mean 2Res + grade, or 2(Res + grade)?  I kinda feel like either would be a tad OP, but the former may be acceptable enough.
Just like math. 2r+g=13 assuming Res 6 and Grade 1.


Wardiving is cool, too.  Fairly balanced by its limitations.  But it won't take all that long to build your grade high enough for that static, unavoidable penalty to completely neuter IC from anything but really powerful hosts.  I'd suggest nerfing it down to just 1/2 grade, rounded up.  Much more manageable for the gm.

Kludge

Poly-Gone

Everything has a cost, and I'd say your Kludge includes a pretty appropriate cost for such a potent benefit.  Good job.  You may want to say "but each illegal action," for the sake of clarity.
Yeah I think that’s how I wrote it before posting it here.


As for Poly-Gone, I doubt I'd bother learning it.  If something has me link-locked, I think I'd just go ahead and take the dumpshock from jacking out.  A threshold of whoever's attack is pretty steep, and if they've managed to lock me down in the first place, then I probably don't even want to stick around anyway.

All in all, good work!  Some of those ideas are pure gold.

A normal Jack-Out’s threshold is the (highest) Attack Attribute. This just gives an avenue for TMs to leave without having the Hardware skill.

Thank you though for taking the time to comb through these and provide some comments and criticism. I appreciate it :)
« Last Edit: (02:50:02/11-03-17) by 忍 »
Yeah, TMs got thrown in the cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube.
there is autosofts for everything  8)

Finstersang

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 175
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #517 on: (11:49:53/11-02-17) »
Another idea:

The Core Rules mention a range of 100 Meters in which wireless devices are spotted automatically without having to perform any action, unless they are running silently.
Furthermore, I always assumed that you also get a rough estimation of their position in the real world, but Iīm not sure if thatīs RAI...
Anyways: How about Echoes and/or Complex Forms that either tamper with this range or offer additional perks when interacting with devices in this range?

Note: For the following examples, I call these 100 Meters "Immediate signal range". Seems like a good opputurnity to coin a new keyword here  ;D

Dead Angle (Echo)
The closer you get, the harder you are to spot. When running silently, you may add your Submersion Grade to defense against Matrix Perception tests coming from your Immediate signal range.

Trust by Closeness (Echo)
You may use the Spoof Command Matrix Action against devices in your Immediate signal range as if you already have a mark on their owner.

Close Combat Coder (Echo)
You may add your Submersion Grade in bonus dice to any Cybercombat Test against devices in your Immediate signal range

Proximal Perception Perk (Echo)
You may add your Submersion Grade in bonus dice to any Matrix Perception Test against devices in your Immediate signal range
(Feel free to add similar Echoes for other Tests, preferably with stupid Aliterations  8))

Triangulator (Echo)
Assuming that Iīm wrong about automatically getting the physical location as well: When you have spotted a Device in your Immediate signal range, you also know its physical location. (Because seriously, anything that eliminates additional Matrix Actions is worthwhile!)

Rats in the Walls (Echo)
You have heightened your sensibility to the subtle signs of hidden devices in the Matrix. While you still need to Perform a successfull Matrix perception test to spot them, you always know if and how many devices are running silently in your Immediate signal range.

Expanded Coverage (Echo)
You add your Submersion Grade * 100 Meters to your Immediate signal range.

Alternative Complex Form Version:

Expand Coverage (Complex Form)
Target: Self
Duration: S
Fade Value: L
For each Net hit, you may add 100 Meters to your Immediate signal range.

And two more Complex Forms messing with ISR:

Palantir (Complex Form)
Target: Device
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 2
Resisted with Intuition+Data Processing. On a Net Hit, you can treat the area covered by the targets Immediate signal range like itīs also covered by yours.

Glaucoma (Complex Form)
Target: Persona
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 2
Resisted with Intuition+Data Processing. If successfull, the targetīs Immediate signal range is reduced by Net Hits * 50 Meters. The target loses all devices in the now uncovered regions as long as they havenīt performed a deliberate Matrix Action against them before the Complex Form resolved.

Edit: Added "Dead Angle" and "Trust by Closeness" as another suggestion for speeding things up.
« Last Edit: (07:01:08/11-03-17) by Finstersang »
But at least we got fearies n' shit... *cough*

HP15BS

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #518 on: (15:06:54/11-03-17) »
I think Veil is too vague to make playable.

It certainly is too vague, but it's still workable.  Especially if you focus on the "something has happened line.  I'd say it's limited to illusory actions / processes, rather than anything that's static.  So a Veil to make the SIN scanner think it read a valid SIN when you really aren't even broadcasting a fake works, but a Veil to disguise your living persona as a mere comm without any attack or sleaze doesn't work.
   Besides, Veil is still RAW, and I doubt Catalyst would want to add a section to the Techno book that actually invalidates an ability from Core.
   ... Although they did do that to MysAds' alchemy in FA, so who knows lol.

Still, I'd say it's better to rework, or at least to clarify, Res Veil than to simply cut and replace the matrix illusion altogether.

Whitespace
   
But it'd help to fluff it...

You’re right. An example would do a lot of good for this.


I think Whitespace needs a little more fluff than just an example.  It wasn't clear to me how a CF on yourself would make your body undetectable to sensors.  I mean, it's not like manipulating your wifi signal... er, Matrix signal... alone will have any bearing on cameras, etc, because they work on actual physical stimuli -- light being reflected into their sensors, sound vibrations, thermal radiation, etc.

So for a CF on yourself to be able to prevent sensors from detecting you, it'd pretty much need to prevent those physical processes from occurring in the first place (which is clearly outside the scope of how Resonance is depicted).
---   The only way I can see to maybe get past this is to say your Resonance kind of merges with the light, sound waves, etc that your body gives off, and travels alongside them to the sensors, where the resonance then causes the devices to glitch and detect no change.
   But that still seems like a stretch to me.

Sprite Evolution:
(And yeah, this Sprite echo could still use a better name.)
Looks pretty cool. Very -Optional Powers- from spirits.

Eh, the Sprite echo is less to give them "optional powers" than it is to simply incorporate your own resonance growth into them.  Remember, unlike mages with spirits, technos actually create their sprites, so it just makes sense to me to be able to build some of my own resonance abilities into these resonance constructs I'm making.
... But yeah. It is effectively a lot like spirits' optional powers lol


Obfu-skate

Now this... this is exactly what we need!  I wish we could've had this from the beginning! 
This is just a retooled Invisibility “spell”. :P

Nah, this is totally different :P 
No, but really.  The Invisibility spells only hide you from a single facet of perception - visual.  An invisible person could still be detected with audio, thermal, or even olfactory.  And you can hurt someone even if you can't see them.
- Not so in the matrix.  If you manage to avoid all matrix perception, then not only do you (probably) avoid setting off any alarms, but nothing can even target you. 

So something that helps you avoid matrix perception is very potent indeed.  And it really drives home the fluff about how sneaky and bewildering technos are supposed to be :)

A normal Jack-Out’s threshold is the (highest) Attack Attribute. This just gives an avenue for TMs to leave without having the Hardware skill.

Thank you though for taking the time to comb through these and provide some comments and criticism. I appreciate it :)

Jack Out actually isn't a threshold test, it's an opposed test; whatever has you link-locked opposes your action with Logic + Attack.  And of course, if multiple things have you link-locked, then each of them rolls their defense separately.


It's my pleasure.  And I'm really glad you like my echo ideas :D
« Last Edit: (15:15:45/11-03-17) by HP15BS »

Finstersang

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 175
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #519 on: (10:31:18/11-06-17) »
A huge grieviance for TMs: No direct connections right out of chargen. TMīs are supposed to be more versatile, yet they need to undergo Submersion before they can do one of the most basic things.

Three Suggestions to fix this problem (that donīt exclude each other):
  • Allow TMs to get a direct connection via Trodes or at least via an implanted Data Jack. (Note: I kinda assume that this might already be RAI, but itīs never explicitly stated that TMs can can use Trodes/Jacks this way...)
  • Add Qualities that allow TMs to get the Skinlink Echo at chargen, so you can build a dedicated "hands-on"-Mancer.
  • Improved Data taps (perhaps more expensive and more complicated to set up) that allow for wireless direct connections when youīre near enough. Note that this would benefit deckers as well and also vastly improve group synergy with stealthy team members.

Edit: Point 2 would do great for a Paragon, which will hopefully make a return. Why not just call it:

Hands-On
Followers of Hands-On are all about direct, physical interaction with devices. However, remote control is not their strength.
Advantage: +2 on Hardware-Tests when physically interacting with a device, Gain the Skinlink Echo for free.
Advantage: -1 on all Matrix Test targetting or using devices when not having physical contact with it.
« Last Edit: (08:03:36/11-07-17) by Finstersang »
But at least we got fearies n' shit... *cough*

Finstersang

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 175
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #520 on: (13:27:04/02-05-18) »
Before my other, more general Post (http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=26791.0) becomes to much of a TM saltmine, lets put the salt where it belongs by bumping this thread again  ;D

Letīs talk about the gaps of TMs. By gaps, I mean basic (mostly Matrix-related) things they cannot do out of the box and/or need to pay an unreasonably high price for.
These gaps are the biggest problem of TMs IMO. You can argue all you want about what you can achieve by sprite/teamwork cheese or creative uses of the more vaguely worded complex forms - if TMs continue to lack these options, they will always be inferiour to "real hackers" (And keep in mind that TMs should actually be more, not less versatile, as long as the "Matrix Wizzard" comparison stands). These gaps have been discussed before, but I think itīs a good idea to have them listed in a single post. For each gap, I will try to provide a set of solutions and a potential extra kicker to make the TMs approach stand out a little bit. Feel free to add if something is missing!

Direct Connections: This one should be pretty obvious.
Solutions: See my post from last year just above  ;)
Kicker: Granted, the Sklinlink Echo is already a huge kicker here. However, I could even think of an Upgrade (example name: Induction Field?) to this form that allows for a direct connection to nearby devices (range of Resonance Meters?) even without touching. For purposes of realism, this effect could be limitted to devices that are already wireless-active, but for that extra Nani!?-Moment, this Echo (or the next Upgrade of it  8)) might even work on throwbacks. Letīs give the Public a reason to fear Technomancers!

Link-Locking: Another big one. Without it, TMīs canīt trap people (and devices) in the Matrix, which makes it too easy to evade the TMīs abilities. Currently, only the Resonance Program Echo offers this option, which is hugely overpriced and not available at chargen.
Solutions: Clearly, the best way to fix this would be a Complex Form (or even a couple of Complex Forms, f.i. for single and multiple targets). An additional measure could be a new sprite with a fitting power (since Streams make their comeback, there will likely more sprites as well).
Kicker: A Complex Form for Link-Logging would make it possible to affect targets without further harm, unlike the hacker program. Another idea depends on the power a link-lock already has: RAW, it only works on personas, but I donīt know if thatīs RAI as well. Personally, I think that devices should be link-lockable too - perhaps with the restriction that the can always be turnt off physically, so only remote shutdown is affected. If anyone, TMs should be able to do it - and this time, even physical shutdown might be affected. Again: Letīs give the Public a reason to fear Technomancers! 

Biofeedback: Pretty much like Link-Logging. TMs canīt do it without fucking Resonance program. And why should the ever so feared Technomancers be the pacifists of the Matrix?
Solutions: Just like link-logging, this gap obviously calls for a couple of Complex Forms (single and multiple targets, Stun or Physical Damage, different secondary effects). A specialized type of Sprite (Neuro-Sprite? Bio-Sprite?) for some Streams would be awesome, too. If I remember correctly, the offense sprites in 4th Edition were able to deal Biofeedback damage out of the Box.
Kicker: Currently, Hackers (and even IC!) cannot go straight for the wetware (i.e. the brain), which basically makes Matrix wetwork very hard: Too often, you will brick the gear before you can finish the job, and the dumpshock will rarely do the trick. (IMO, all hacker archetypes should be able to deal "straight" biofeedback damage, but it should be more easy for TMs). The TM options for Biofeedback could also have additional perks: Psychotropic Effects, the ability to deal limited physical damage to Cold-Sim targets or stun damage via DNI and even nastier stuff for dissonant mancers. Again: Letīs give the Public a reason to fear Technomancers!

The Wrapper Program: If used cleverly, the Wrapper programm can be used to hide dangerous devices in plain sight. Too bad that TMs would need/waste another instance of fucking Resonance program.
Solutions: This might already be covered by Resonance Veil, which needs some clarification. Else: Complex Forms and/or Sprite Sprite Power.

PANs and WANs: Honestly, I thinks this is less of a problem than the gaps mentioned before. After all, TMīs can still use a commlink as a master device and even buff it with resonance infusion. However: Arenīt TMs supposed to do their work without Decks and 'links?
Solutions: Complex Form ("Enslave") and/or Echo ("Resonance PAN") and/or Sprite Power (The Paladin Sprite from 4th Edition would be a good candidate! Let the Sprite protect your stuff!)
Kicker: As a compensation for having to use a CF or Echo, remove the risk of gaining additional Marks on yourself.


These are the most obvious gaps, but there are two things that are likely to be overlooked, since they were added in Data Trails :

Deleting/Removing Files from the Matrix: The Nuke from Orbit and Cloudless programs added another problem for all Matrix specialists to deal with: As it seems, the Cloud is a lot more denser than we thought, so you need special programs to permanently remove content from the Matrix (and even then, the foundation and the resonance realms might still have a hidden backup, but thatīs actually a cool idea for adventures  :D). As always, TMs are hurt the most, because fucking Resonance program.
Solutions: Complex Forms and/or Sprite Sprite Power.
Kicker: Analogous to the Editor Complex Form: Make it work without the Mark and/or circumvent protection and/or circumvent Data Bombs and/or circumvent OS (if thatīs what Editor actually does. Maybe itīs just a complex Edit File Action with additional Fading after all :P)

Deep Dives: Data Trails introduced Deep Dives and with it, yet another program needed to take your friends with you. For TMs (who are supposed to be exceptionally good at deep diving), this means - you guessed it: fucking Resonance program.
Solutions: Make it free. This is something that Technos should be able to do out of the box.
Kicker: Elaborate on the other perks of being a TM in the foundation, fluff- and crunch-wise  ;)

« Last Edit: (22:25:30/02-05-18) by Finstersang »
But at least we got fearies n' shit... *cough*

HP15BS

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #521 on: (19:25:31/02-05-18) »
  • Add Qualities that allow TMs to get the Skinlink Echo at chargen, so you can build a dedicated "hands-on"-Mancer.

Meh. They really should just start with that ability for free.  Or at the very least, they should automatically get it as part of submerging for the first time (in addition to whatever echo they're submerging for).

Direct Connections:
...
 I could really even of an Upgrade (example name: Induction Field?) to this form that allows for a direct connection to nearby devices (range of Resonance Meters?) even without touching. For purposes of realism, this effect could be limitted to devices that are already wireless-active, but for that extra Nani!?-Moment, this Echo (or the next Upgrade of it  8)) might even work on throwbacks. Letīs give the Public a reason to fear Technomancers!

That'd actually be pretty cool though. I'd say that would be worth an echo.

(( "I could really even of an" ... um... what? lol ))

Link-Locking: Another big one. Without it, TMīs canīt trap people (and devices) in the Matrix, which makes it too easy to evade the TMīs abilities. Currently, only the Resonance Program Echo offers this option, which is hugely overpriced and not available at chargen.
Solutions: Clearly, the best way to fix this would be a Complex Form (or even a couple of Complex Forms, f.i. for single and multiple targets). An additional measure could be a new sprite with a fitting power (since Streams make their comeback, there will likely more sprites as well).

Sure.
So... +1 for 忍 's Resonance Tether cf?

Biofeedback:
...basically makes Matrix wetwork very hard ...
 Letīs give the Public a reason to fear Technomancers!

See my earlier response to 忍 's Jolt cf.
...
You really want an effective way to assassinate people through the Matrix? That'd be flippin terrifying! And in a world where SAO's Death Gun plot is so real, security would be way more intense and all-encompassing than we really want to deal with. Best to leave that well enough alone.

The Wrapper Program: ...Too bad that TMs would need/waste another instance of fucking Resonance program.
Solutions: This might already be covered by Resonance Veil, which needs some clarification. Else: Complex Forms and/or Sprite Sprite Power.

Sure.  Or just change the lame Resonance Program into a Resonance Program Suite.  (See above.)

PANs and WANs:
...
Kicker: As a compensation for having to use a CF or Echo, remove the risk of gaining additional Marks on yourself.

So +1 to 忍 's RAID echo?
I like that extra perk of not getting marks on your own persona, but that'd probably bump it into OP territory.  Besides, it makes too much sense for such a power to include that vulnerability.

Deleting/Removing Files from the Matrix: The Nuke from Orbit and Cloudless programs added another problem... As always, TMs are hurt the most, because fucking Resonance program.
Solutions: Complex Forms and/or Sprite Sprite Power.
Kicker: Analogous to the Editor Complex Form...

Yeah, Resonance Program Suite solves a lot of problems.
But actually, for this particular problem, I think you're right to point back to sprites.  That would be a perfect power for Data Sprites to have.  (And it'd actually make them useful for something lol)

Deep Dives
...yet another program needed to take your friends with you. For TMs (who are supposed to be exceptionally good at deep diving), this means - you guessed it: fucking Resonance program.

Again, Resonance Program Suite solves a lot of problems...  (Or at least makes them less problematic lol)
But yeah.  This would be perfectly thematic for technos to get for free.  And you're right; we do need elaboration of techno's advantages in foundations.
-- Hopefully, that's something the techno book will... e v e n t u a l l y ... deliver on.
« Last Edit: (00:26:49/02-06-18) by HP15BS »

HP15BS

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 29
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #522 on: (23:43:02/02-05-18) »
Obfu-skate
Target: Self
Duration: S
Fade Value: L - 2
When running silent isn't enough, you choose to ride the flow of Resonance to make your connections. Others attempting to find you through a Matrix Perception test suffer a dice pool penalty equal to your hits. This penalty applies to foes and allies alike. Much like running silent, once someone has a MARK on you, you appear clear as day.

Now this... this is exactly what we need!  I wish we could've had this from the beginning!  Not only is it a great effect, it also has a great name :) 
This is just a retooled Invisibility “spell”. :P

Actually, now that I look at it again, I'd say Obfu-skate's fading value should be lower. It's fucntionally the same as Infussion of Sleaze for the purpose of staying hidden, except it only applies against perception. 
Less benefit should come with less cost.

other advanced echoes such as skillsoft emulation (DAMN that was useful!)

Ooh, I like that! 
How about...

Soft PiRate
    This echo allows you to intuitively manipulate resonance in such a way as to interpret and utilize the data found on skillsofts without needing an implant.  While connected to a skilljack you own, you make both a Software + Resonance, and a Hardware + Resonance [Skillsoft Rating] (2 x Skillsoft Rating, 1 hour) extended test.  Success on the software test means you have interpreted and familiarized yourself with that knowledge enough to quickly utilize it while mentally connected to the device it's contained on.  Success on the hardware test means you have also analyzed the data meant to be applied to muscles via wires, and incorporated enough of that data into your muscle memory through micro muscle-spasms, to make use of the physical aspects of the activesoft.  (The hardware test is not necessary to use a knowsoft.)
    You must have submerged at least once prior to taking this echo.  You may be prepared to use a number of skillsofts stored on some device you're connected to equal to 1/2 your submersion grade, rounded up.  If you prepare yourself to use another skillsoft beyond this limit, you will lose the ability to benefit from one of your previous tests.


- I think I did a decent enough job of balancing it.  (To appropriate an old epigram: "Good enough for Catalyst work" lol)
   - It'd provide technos with a means to gain a potent power, and it even gives them something to sink their Ĩ into. We're so awesome  8)


The fastest way to fix the dronomancer concept, some kind of piloting sprite or Dog-brain emulator.
... Perhaps a CF that lets you jump into a drone, as a temporary mimic of a Control Rig, but the echo gives you a permanent ability. That would allow the differentiation between a TM who wants to use a drone vs a TM thats ALL about the drones.

Or just modify Machine Sprites so it's explicitly stated they can jump into vehicles / drones, and maybe even other devices, too. 
... And then make them able to benefit from autosofts while jumped in, too....

I also like the CF + echo rigging idea.  But what's a good (and balanced) special bonus for said echo beyond what's standard to control rigs?
...  Maybe an extra, small initiative boost?  Or something like automatic Stability?  Extra dodge dice, or resistance vs biofeedback?  Target Lock + Take Aim with a single simple action?  Or maybe the ability to use autosofts as though they were your own skills while jumped in?

- But does having an extra perk beyond control rig emulation bump the echo into OP territory? ... Probably. :-\
But perhaps it'd be balanced enough to only add a weaker one to a 2nd-tier MMRI, and a decent bonus to the 3rd?  At that point, I'd say the karmic cost (>48) is enough to justify the extra power.
- But maybe the 1st could add the same +2 technos get to their matrix perception to their jumped-in perception / sensor tests    (That's still minor enough, right? And it's basically just retaining techno's native perception bonus.)
- 2nd add 1/2 submersion grade, rounded up, to biofeedback resistance while jumped in
- 3rd use autosofts as your own skills    (by that point, R6 autosofts probably aren't that much of a bump to these pools for you anyway)

.... But again, as cool and as fitting as that would be, I'm guessing it'd still be considered too OP.
« Last Edit: (02:48:17/02-06-18) by HP15BS »

Finstersang

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 175
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #523 on: (10:05:22/02-06-18) »
Actually, now that I look at it again, I'd say Obfu-skate's fading value should be lower. It's fucntionally the same as Infussion of Sleaze for the purpose of staying hidden, except it only applies against perception. 
Less benefit should come with less cost.

You could also increase the Scope of the Form to device instead of self. Would be an awesome tool for Dronomancers. Hiding Drones in the Matrix is quite an issue for Riggers!
Bonus utility if you can use it on involuntary targets: "Hello, is this Matrix Security? I canīt find the icon of my workstation anymore!"
With TMīs, Iīd always opt for more versatility and unique effects instead of pure boni.

- But maybe the 1st could add the same +2 technos get to their matrix perception to their jumped-in perception / sensor tests    (That's still minor enough, right? And it's basically just retaining techno's native perception bonus.)
- 2nd add 1/2 submersion grade, rounded up, to biofeedback resistance while jumped in
- 3rd use autosofts as your own skills    (by that point, R6 autosofts probably aren't that much of a bump to these pools for you anyway)

.... But again, as cool and as fitting as that would be, I'm guessing it'd still be considered too OP.

I love it! Would be OP only by the current low standard. The 3rd bonus is quite powerfull, but you still have to submerge 3 times, and as you already stated, Autosofts are capped at a rating of 6. You can put an additional fluffy buffer on that by making the use of Autosoft skills incompatible with the use of natural skills, as a nod to that silly silly rule where drones canīt use their own autosofts when using shared Autosofts from a RCC. To work like Dog-Brain, you have to become the Dog-Brain!  ;D
« Last Edit: (19:03:18/02-06-18) by Finstersang »
But at least we got fearies n' shit... *cough*

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 741
Re: Technomancer feedback for a new book!
« Reply #524 on: (18:53:22/02-06-18) »
Just a passing thought: What if diagnostics got moved/toned down and machine sprites could act like drone pilots again (like from 4th)?
Yeah, TMs got thrown in the cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube.
there is autosofts for everything  8)