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So what is Munchy in the Run

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Usda Beph

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« on: <09-27-10/1251:38> »
OK so I have my Usda. He's a walking wreckingball with horns. But is he Munchy?

A3(7)
B9(13)
R3
S10(14)
C2
I3
L3
W3
E1
Armor 16B/14P

Weilds an Axe and fists mostly. took some grenades
14 dice pool for Unarmed 11Dice pool for damage
same for his axe but 15 Pool for damage.

What else would one need to know if they wanted to decide if a character is munchy?

I know he's good, but Even with his phisical atributes and combat skills I had the least kills for our trial mission. Not by much but That's in part due to having to close to pummel. Remember no magic in our game yet.
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #1 on: <09-27-10/1440:51> »
Maybe this should be in the critique forum?
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Glyph

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« Reply #2 on: <09-27-10/2233:02> »
Munchkin has become too subjective of a term lately.  Generally, I define it as using rules exploits and outright cheating to break the game, with the goal of dominating game play at the expense of everyone else's enjoyment.

Munchkin is really more a style of play than anything else, so it is hard to tell whether a character is munchkin simply by looking at a build.  If a character is built solely for combat, neglecting mental Attributes, social skills, and other skills unrelated to combat, that character could  be a munchkin.  But it could be someone who simply isn't interested in the non-combat areas, or someone coming from a game where the players had to min-max simply to survive.  And again, it's a question of playing style.  There is a difference between a killing machine who protects the noncombattants in the group, and a killing machine who starts a fight during the meet with the Johnson because he is "bored."

It's hard to tell whether this character is even a powergaming build, without being able to see more than raw Attributes - skills and powers/'ware would give a more complete picture.  I would be able to tell if the character had non-combat skills or not.  I would be able to tell if the character has any extra initiative passes or ranged skills - he might be a walking tank, but if he only goes once a round and can't retaliate against distance attacks, he wouldn't even be that effective in combat.   He would squash anyone who got near him, but compared to a street samurai hosing down people with auto-fire over several initiative passes, he wouldn't be the most optimal build.

Wayfinder

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« Reply #3 on: <09-28-10/0015:14> »
I agree with Glyph there is no way to see if it is actually Min/Maxed without seeing the whole character sheet.

Of course one of the things i love about SR is that as a GM I find that there is no such thing as munchy. If the players go all hard core combat, I'll just make combat a minor part of the game as a whole. Therefore their char is then min instead of max. lol

Angelone

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« Reply #4 on: <09-28-10/0402:15> »
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=415.0 is the whole character. I haven't read the whole topic yet but if anything the character seems underpowered so far. You need some kind of IP boost.
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #5 on: <09-28-10/0717:27> »
Well first thanks gang. Adren Rush gives A pass IIRC. As for adding more, I don't think any of my party has more than one pass. I have given Usda thrown weapon ranks so he can effectively throw grenades for range damage. Other than that, my party is already gun heavy, so I figured we needed a close combat specialist. Our practice games showed Usda having a flaw not having a ranged attack (hence adding grenades).
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Angelone

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« Reply #6 on: <09-28-10/0800:49> »
Grenades are fickle, be wary around them. As an alternative since the character likes axes maybe you could pick up a few tomahawks (Arsenal pg. 16) to hurl at your foes, or throwing knives but that's not as thematic. The upsides to those are no scatter and they are recoverable.
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #7 on: <09-28-10/0809:39> »
Yeah. Usda is a big boom kinda guy. Either he's making them with his fists/Axe or the grenades/ Auto Cannon are making them for him. Vision thing you know how that goes. ;)
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Angelone

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« Reply #8 on: <09-28-10/0847:25> »
Yeah I figured, was just trying to help keep costs down, you know ;) Tomahawks are miniaxes. I think I might get a few tomahawks for my pysad, I love those tomahawk throwing videos.
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #9 on: <09-28-10/0850:58> »
I love thowing axes at the RenFest! I might not hit the target every time but I do sink it in good!
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Glyph

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« Reply #10 on: <09-28-10/2224:31> »
I wouldn't call him munchkin.  I wouldn't even call him min-maxed.  He is a character built around the picture that you had in your mind about this minotaur, rather than what the most optimized choices for combat would be.

A few notes -
 Adrenaline Surge only lets you act first in the first round of combat (pretty weak for 15 points, in my opinion).  It doesn't give you any extra initiative passes.

For muscle toner: 4 and muscle augmentation: 4, you actually need to take the restricted gear quality.

Also, your dice pools and damage should be:

Unarmed attack: 15 dice (Agility: 7 + skill: 5 + specialization: 2 + reach: 1)
Unarmed damage: 12P (1/2 Strength = 7, +3 from bone density: 4, +2 from martial arts)

Combat axe: 17 dice (Agility: 7 + skill: 5 + specialization: 2 + reach: 3)
Combat axe damage: 11P (STR/2+4 damage code - boxing and bone density both only add to unarmed combat)

Usda Beph

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« Reply #11 on: <09-29-10/0759:38> »
I wouldn't call him munchkin.  I wouldn't even call him min-maxed.  He is a character built around the picture that you had in your mind about this minotaur, rather than what the most optimized choices for combat would be.

A few notes -
 Adrenaline Surge only lets you act first in the first round of combat (pretty weak for 15 points, in my opinion).  It doesn't give you any extra initiative passes.Ah! I did miss read that one dang it! Not so weak when my total INIT dice pool is about 1/2 of what the other members have!

For muscle toner: 4 and muscle augmentation: 4, you actually need to take the restricted gear quality.(Opps We all missed that one!)

Also, your dice pools and damage should be:

Unarmed attack: 15 dice (Agility: 7 + skill: 5 + specialization: 2 + reach: 1)
Unarmed damage: 12P (1/2 Strength = 7, +3 from bone density: 4, +2 from martial arts)

Combat axe: 17 dice (Agility: 7 + skill: 5 + specialization: 2 + reach: 3)
Combat axe damage: 11P (STR/2+4 damage code - boxing and bone density both only add to unarmed combat)Yeah we have changed that. I just haven't updated my sheet to reflect it!
Thanks for the info/advice Glyph! Had to drop AdSurge to do it but hey I can always let the shooters soften 'em up before I hit 'em!
« Last Edit: <09-29-10/0821:07> by Usda Beph »
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Chaotic Insane

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« Reply #12 on: <09-29-10/0849:26> »
No, you're going to want another IP. I only had one and it was making me a sitting duck, so even though I was building a character that wanted to avoid tech, I still went and took it.

Now he just has a reason to distrust/like cyber implants because his weren't done in the most professional (... or clean...) environment. XD
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #13 on: <09-29-10/0941:53> »
No, you're going to want another IP. I only had one and it was making me a sitting duck, so even though I was building a character that wanted to avoid tech, I still went and took it.

Now he just has a reason to distrust/like cyber implants because his weren't done in the most professional (... or clean...) environment. XD
Ewwww what's that ozzing out the side of your head? Actually the Surge only let me have first init in teh first phase of combat. You know the one where I'd be using a full move and probably not even get an attack cause the baddies are out of my range.
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Dead Monky

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« Reply #14 on: <09-29-10/1459:44> »
If you're focusing on melee, you are definitely going to want more IPs and some kind of a movement boost.  Otherwise, you're going to be useless after the first round and/or get torn apart pretty fast.  Or, you could use him as a hit and run guy.  He could sneak in and around the area moving in and out of the fight as need be.  He could hem in the enemy by chopping up those that try to break off.  Use him to hit from their flanks or rear.