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Rambling questions on SINs

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Mollari

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« Reply #45 on: <01-29-18/1821:42> »
Interesting. I guess the biometrics would only be an issue when tested. So perhaps when you're buying a sports car or a property, but you wouldn't give a saliva sample just to walk into a high class restaurant... right?

So what do you think happens to your SIN when you do something that drastically breaks the biometric links or financial profile?
eg. buy a supercar, get a ton of cyberware, get an expensive doc wagon contract (granted they don't ask questions, but buying a platinum on an identity that has a low lifestyle is still a financial record. As a GM I wouldn't let you buy a Doc Wagon with cred sticks lol))

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #46 on: <01-29-18/1832:13> »
Interesting. I guess the biometrics would only be an issue when tested. So perhaps when you're buying a sports car or a property, but you wouldn't give a saliva sample just to walk into a high class restaurant... right?

Well if you're trying to claim your reservation at a fancy restaurant, whether or not your behavior and attire match for the environment is the first thing to worry about.  A fancy restaurant isn't going to insult their clientele by insisting on fingerprinting their guests before seating them at a table.   However if you come across as a Ferris Bueller insisting that you're really Abe Froman the Sausage King of the Chicago Sprawl, well that's another story...

As for something like purchasing a supercar or yacht or mansion... yeah absolutely prepare for some very intimate tests.  Depending on the amount of detail/roleplaying a GM wants to do for expensive but completely legal purchases, a shadowrunner might want/need to include some bribes as if it were illegal just to keep everything off "the books".


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So what do you think happens to your SIN when you do something that drastically breaks the biometric links or financial profile?
eg. buy a supercar, get a ton of cyberware, get an expensive doc wagon contract (granted they don't ask questions, but buying a platinum on an identity that has a low lifestyle is still a financial record. As a GM I wouldn't let you buy a Doc Wagon with cred sticks lol))

See Burned SINs, page 364 :D

As for Doc Wagon, otoh, they absolutely are happy to take cash and pretend you're not a Shadowrunner.  There's a bit in Chromed Flesh that explains they even issue members a sort of ID for internal use only if you don't have a proper SIN (that you care to share with them).
« Last Edit: <01-29-18/1837:59> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Marcus

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« Reply #47 on: <01-29-18/2141:01> »
Well this went about 2 page further then I ever imagined it would. Some interesting points. Poor team burning all their vory contacts while in Vladivostok, poor kids.
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Mollari

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« Reply #48 on: <01-29-18/2151:23> »
Well punching walls in and kidnapping members of the family will do that.

But yes, I am very thankful for all your pages of feedback. Great community here :D

Ragin Cajun

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« Reply #49 on: <02-21-18/2222:07> »
I know I might be late to this thread and I'm not sure if it was posted here but there was a fan-made PDF book called Unoriginal S.I.N. by Logan Z. Hill. it's a homebrew thing about S.I.N.'s.
Just needs a little bit a cayenne pepper.

SunRunner

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« Reply #50 on: <02-23-18/0900:32> »
Something I dont think the OP is considering is most fake SINs are stolen data. That means that your rating 2 Fake SIN for Mr. John Smith actually has a real Mr. John Smith the Ork wageslave Janitor at some corp facility who is pulling a paycheck, Paying Taxes and has a nice consistent and very real purchase history to go with it. This means that if you are running around with a fake SIN as Mr John smith with your photo pasted over it and paying by certified credstick for everything no one is asking to many questions because all those flags in the system your worried about don't exist. Most fake SINs are stolen identities or sold Identities, cause if you dont think the Local Yaks and other crime families wont cut some deals with Mr. Smith where when he gets in a little over his head after betting on the wrong urban brawl team they will forgive the debt and you know not smash his knees in with a hammer ect, if he just gives them his SIN and all his other personal info. My understanding is only the high end R5 and R6 fake SINs are actually created false identities. Where shadow organizations the specialize in fake SINs use system back doors and officials on the take to Enter in a fully False SIN. I also am pretty sure I remember reading back in some older edition books where they talked about how to create fake SINs that these organizations get the SIN entered into the system and then let it sit in the system and Marinate for a while and also have some netbot agents that run the SIN and have it log into matrix sites and make small purchases and such to build up a "Real transaction history" and such. When they get the call for a High quality fake SIN that needs to exactly match the Male Native American Elf etc. then they use their backdoors and compromised officials to upload YOUR biometric data and such into the system as well as changing the gender and metatype and such to match the particulars of the individual paying the 15k+ nuyen for the ID and its Avail 18 so it takes a little time to get everything in place.

brombur

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« Reply #51 on: <02-23-18/1752:35> »
I decided to go way more minority report with the SIN issue in my setting. Sins broadcast information constantly that can be picked up by the systems all around you and anyone in AR mode around you. Runners with actual SINs use devices to mask their actual data and broadcast fakes. Depending on your  location not having a broadcasting SIN is a one way ticket to harassment by  legitimate folks and law enforcement alike.  For us, low level SiNS get burned on pretty much every run and the players maintain a few higher level SINS for their "real" lives.  I grant them a bonus to avoid detection if they have a lifestyle and bank account attached to the SIN but the trade off is that if that SIN is compromised they risk losing the cash and property. It isn't too much book keeping on our parts, we just agree that they have some source to launder the money into their different accounts, a part of the lifestyle cost, and when they get paid they tell me where it goes. They maintain a couple of SINS with small sums for purchases while working and credsticks for when they are in areas where SINS and accounts would be uncommon.  Hasn't been much of an issue yet but we will see as my team is fast approaching the first large scale burn of an identity as they were sloppy enough to allow the gun runners they were fighting with to hack one of their good com links.

RiggerBob

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« Reply #52 on: <02-23-18/1804:04> »
My understanding is only the high end R5 and R6 fake SINs are actually created false identities.
I'm actually pretty sure, nearly no fake SIN is created from scratch. They are mostly sold or stolen from living people or belong to dead people who "accidently" weren't marked as such. The rating is the difference in "fine tuning" this ID, ranging from something fresh and unedited, only very roughly matching your description (R1), to masterfully crafted ones that were maintained for years for a "real" digital footprint and got edited to exactly match your biometrics (R6).

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #53 on: <02-23-18/1816:08> »
My understanding is only the high end R5 and R6 fake SINs are actually created false identities.
I'm actually pretty sure, nearly no fake SIN is created from scratch. They are mostly sold or stolen from living people or belong to dead people who "accidently" weren't marked as such. The rating is the difference in "fine tuning" this ID, ranging from something fresh and unedited, only very roughly matching your description (R1), to masterfully crafted ones that were maintained for years for a "real" digital footprint and got edited to exactly match your biometrics (R6).

Pages 363-364 discuss the nature and rules for Fake SINs.

It's pretty clear that while sometimes a low rating fake SIN is simply a stolen identity, a lot of the time fake SINs are deliberate creations.  Like the famous SIN that has chicken DNA just to have something there in case the verification system only wants to be sure there is some DNA at all on file.

The way it reads is that actually the higher end SINs are indeed invented with real biometrics, it's just not your character's.

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Biometric data associated with
a high-Rating SIN will be from a real person with the
same sex and nationality as the purchaser with (if the
extra fee is paid) matching organic samples available
(blood, skin cells, hair—just don’t ask where they came
from).

As I said upthread:  Think of using a high rating Fake SIN as being like the movie GATTACA.


Creating Fake SINs is something that takes a long time (page 364 says it takes years to create a high rating Fake SIN) and unless you're REALLY patient, when you buy a fake SIN you're not commissioning something to match your data.  You're buying the work and artistry put in over a very long time by someone who's skills command very high prices.  Odds are pretty slim that years ago when the SIN forger began work on the fake SIN you ultimately bought that your DNA/biometrics is what was used :)
« Last Edit: <02-23-18/1819:09> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Longshot23

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« Reply #54 on: <02-24-18/0621:45> »
There is . . . something like a shadow investment house mentioned in various places in the SR lore. Most recently in the SR4 book Vice, though it got previous mentions starting in SR3. It's not unique either.

brombur

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« Reply #55 on: <02-26-18/1548:07> »
I would think that Fake sins are the result of the corporations allowing exploits in the system to exist. Every corp and government uses runners from time to time for their own nefarious purposes so it makes sense that, while they publicly front about security and the protection of the SINS, in the shadows they allow the system to be worked in order to enable the shadow community to exist.

You never know how deep the rabbit hole goes. Runners live under the illusion that they are the ones who are free but in reality they are just enslaved with different chains. Is anyone really free? 

Reaver

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« Reply #56 on: <02-27-18/2257:17> »
I would think that Fake sins are the result of the corporations allowing exploits in the system to exist. Every corp and government uses runners from time to time for their own nefarious purposes so it makes sense that, while they publicly front about security and the protection of the SINS, in the shadows they allow the system to be worked in order to enable the shadow community to exist.

You never know how deep the rabbit hole goes. Runners live under the illusion that they are the ones who are free but in reality they are just enslaved with different chains. Is anyone really free?

The Corps do, do that. they are called "company men" in the shadows.

Runners, that only work for a single Corp - but get extra special perks, like Corp "Fake" SINs, access to new/special/Corp weapons and gear, and even Corp funded housing.

The downside is usually that if you fail once, you're left twisting in the wind...
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.