Author Topic: Vintage and Gremlin  (Read 351 times)

1600sekigahara

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Vintage and Gremlin
« on: (01:28:13/09-18-17) »
 My character takes "Gremlin".
And I would like dodge the penalty.
So I decide some "vintage" guns. Such as

WINCHESTER MODEL 2067
COLT M1991

Can these guns dodge the penalty of  "Gremlin" ?

ShadowcatX

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #1 on: (08:17:58/09-18-17) »
Nope. If it's tech, Gremlins will getcha.

But with a high dice pool Gremlins won't be that bad.

1600sekigahara

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #2 on: (08:41:26/09-18-17) »
Thank you, ShadowcatX. :)

Vintage guns can't equip smart link.
So vintage guns are not effort to Gremlin :'(

Jack_Spade

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #3 on: (08:50:15/09-18-17) »
Why are you taking Gremlins anyway?
It's one of the most undervalued and overly strong negative qualities in the game. There is no character I'd recommend should take this quality. Glitches are bad enough but Critical Glitches kill characters.
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1600sekigahara

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #4 on: (09:47:13/09-18-17) »
I think Gremlin is strong negative quality, too.
But I would like to find a loophole to surprise my teammates.
 At first, I think low tech gear and magic make it possible.

ShadowcatX

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #5 on: (10:28:17/09-18-17) »
Thank you, ShadowcatX. :)

Vintage guns can't equip smart link.
So vintage guns are not effort to Gremlin :'(

Smart links have nothing to do with gremlins.

Mirikon

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #6 on: (12:20:06/09-18-17) »
If you were looking do do a Gremlins character, then I'd suggest going either Adept or Mage. Swords, kunai, and bows (normal bows, not compound bows) wouldn't fall prey to Gremlins. And you can do some nasty things with, say, a Bow Adept.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #7 on: (00:46:30/09-19-17) »
Honestly, only the lowest-technology weapons should be immune to Gremlins.  But IMO, taking Gremlins and then attempting to 'dodge' it will only make it surface in 'worse' ways, because I'm a solid believer in the HERO System adage that 'A disadvantage that does not disadvantage the character isn't worth any points.'

Trying to dodge the effect by working only with lowest of tech items should then mean that everything else that the PC gets involved with starts to gain the effects, and (again IMO) the player here seriously underestimates the amount of technology that everyday life involves.  Vvehicles made after 1980, the refrigerator and microwave in his house (unless he's using an icebox and a wood-fire stove), elevators in buildings, doors, streetlights, all the rest of it - should be screwing up in reaction to his efforts to dodge his gremlins.  The bus or monorail or taxi she gets into in order to get a ride to the meet, or the rigger's car or van which the team jumps into for the getaway, shorts out because the character is in it.  The coffee machine at the corner Starbucks where the character gets her coffee every day, fritzing out and spraying hot water everywhere.  The automatic door at his grocery store opens and closes erratically as he tries to leave with two armfuls of food; the taser the cop is holding on him because he can't transmit a SIN because he gave up on commlinks.

Aaaaall kinds of ways to make this still worth 4 karma per level.
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Kiirnodel

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #8 on: (02:34:01/09-19-17) »
To a certain extent, using sub-optimal weapons and being restricted on gear that you can effectively use is a disadvantage.

But yeah, guns are still considered technology, even if they don't have smartgun systems. The quality specifies "moderately sophisticated devices" so I would probably have it apply to most modern firearms. I could see an argument for particularly antiquated guns, but even the Vintage quality doesn't guarantee that. Many of those guns are old in "style" but are still manufactured and designed using modern techniques. The Winchester Model 2067 for example was still designed in the year 2067!

The old Cap & Ball style guns would probably be ok, though...

Mirikon

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #9 on: (02:41:33/09-19-17) »
Well, there's a difference between 'dodging' and 'spending significant resources to mitigate'. While I wouldn't have Gremlins activate at the supermarket when he is just walking through the automatic door, it would potentially happen any time he used his commlink, hit a button on the elevator, drove modern vehicles, turned on the electric stove, did any transaction with electronic currency, and so on. Basically, active uses, not passive ones, unless a test is involved. But, say, a Wolf Shaman who uses a bow and knife, and lives in a W Zone? That's some cool characterization, and you're going to have enough inherent problems that I wouldn't worry too much about seeking out ways to fuck with them. Yes, Gremlins wouldn't come up as much, but that's like saying someone with shellfish allergies stays way the hell away from Red Lobster, or any event where they are serving shrimp cocktails. They either run headlong into the disadvantage, or they have to devote resources (either in terms of nuyen, karma, etc., or in terms of time and hassle in game) to avoid them.
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1600sekigahara

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #10 on: (08:59:02/09-19-17) »
Thank you everyone.
I underestimate Gremlin...
Bow adept is good idea.
I will re-design my character.

Blue Rose

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #11 on: (17:56:43/10-01-17) »
A bow is still technology.

The Gremlins flaw is very open-ended in how it's written.  "Technology" refers to almost everything.  Even archaic technology is still technology.

From cyberdecks to javelins, from your Nissan jackrabbit to your bicycle, it applies to most things you do.

About the only ways to attack without being subject to Gremlins is an unarmed attack without 'ware to enhance it, super primitive improvised weapons (and even that's iffy) or magical spells.

At least, as written.  Talk to your GM about what they intend to make the low end of gremlins applicability.

That said, if you have a high dice pool, gremlins 1 isn't that big a deal.

Kiirnodel

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Re: Vintage and Gremlin
« Reply #12 on: (00:00:42/10-02-17) »
Well, the Quality does specify that it applies to "moderately sophisticated" technology. It also uses the term "device" which is usually used to refer to electronics elsewhere in the book (though this is hardly conclusive).

It also very specifically mentions that it doesn't affect the use of implants.

For bows, I would say it affects compound bows (the kind that use pulleys and mechanical advantage), but not a traditional bow (the simple kind, with just a set of limbs and string)

Essentially, gremlins should affect things that use some sort of modern techniques to work.