Author Topic: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool  (Read 361 times)

The Bald Man

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Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« on: (12:05:02/09-12-17) »
If jumped in to a vehicle/drone is there any change in the dodge pool?  Does one get the VCR or hot sim bonus?

The answer is yes.

"When you’re jumped into a vehicle or other device, you’re in Virtual Reality mode. The control rig allows you to treat Vehicle actions the same way you treat Matrix actions, so any bonus you get to Matrix actions also apply to Vehicle actions when you’re jumped in; this includes Vehicle Control Tests, Gunnery Tests, and Sensor Tests." p.266

"When you are in hot-sim VR mode, you use your Data Processing + Intuition as your Initiative and you get +4D6 Initiative Dice (remember that any enhancements or bonuses cannot take you past the maximum of 5D6 Initiative Dice). You receive a +2 dice pool bonus to all Matrix actions, and you take biofeedback damage as Physical damage." p.230 core

Control Vehicle is a complex Action (and obviously a Vehicle Action and therefore jumped in a Matrix Action), which allows you to steer your vehicle for one round, including evading attacks. Evasive Driving is a free Action, reduces your Ini by 10 and adds your Intuition to your defense pool.
I posted this to the character creation forum in error.  recreated the post in the rules section and copied Jack Spade's response.  Will delete the post in the wrong section.

ZeldaBravo

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #1 on: (00:28:03/09-18-17) »
Define "dodge pool".
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #2 on: (17:27:27/09-18-17) »
Round nth go!
Yeah, TMs got thrown in the cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube.
there is autosofts for everything  8)

The Bald Man

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #3 on: (15:02:49/09-19-17) »
Define "dodge pool".
Generally Reaction + Intuition.  Also known as Ranged Defense or Melee Defense

Round nth go!
I try to keep up with forums, but I haven't seen this one.  I don't want to rehash the hot sim bonus vs VCR bonus, etc. 
The gist of the question is do you get the "jumped in" bonus (whatever that may be) on defense tests.

ZeldaBravo

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #4 on: (00:34:54/09-20-17) »
Define "dodge pool".
Generally Reaction + Intuition.  Also known as Ranged Defense or Melee Defense

No, you don't get an extra +2, because it only applies to actions; RD or MD are attribute only rolls. However, you should get the bonus if you use actions like Evasive Driving.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

Jack_Spade

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #5 on: (03:38:15/09-20-17) »
Control Vehicle is an action. The text doesn't state that the bonus is only applicable to skill actions, but to all actions, which includes re-actions.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

ZeldaBravo

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #6 on: (05:13:02/09-20-17) »
I disagree.

Quote
CONTROL VEHICLE
This action is not really an action at all, simply the ex-
penditure of an action to represent efforts taken for the
entire Combat Turn to keep the vehicle under control.
This action does not need to be taken as the driver’s first
action in combat, but until this action is taken, the vehi-
cle is considered uncontrolled at the end of the Combat
Turn and may crash or be taken over by the vehicle’s on-
board Piloting system.

This is an "action tax". It's purpose is to take a complex action away from a driver, that's it.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

Jack_Spade

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #7 on: (05:30:23/09-20-17) »
Yes, but it is this action you have to take that is the basis of your defense (re)actions.
Going hot-sim makes you better at handling your vehicle - there is no reason whatsoever to assume that the improved input wouldn't help you steer your vehicle out of the way of attacks too.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

The Dyslexic Won

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #8 on: (09:59:46/09-20-17) »
Yes, but it is this action you have to take that is the basis of your defense (re)actions.
Going hot-sim makes you better at handling your vehicle - there is no reason whatsoever to assume that the improved input wouldn't help you steer your vehicle out of the way of attacks too.
And get fried that one time they hit any how.   ;D

The Bald Man

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #9 on: (18:50:21/09-20-17) »
Yes, but it is this action you have to take that is the basis of your defense (re)actions.
Going hot-sim makes you better at handling your vehicle - there is no reason whatsoever to assume that the improved input wouldn't help you steer your vehicle out of the way of attacks too.
And get fried that one time they hit any how.   ;D
That's why I was hoping that consensus would fall toward them getting the extra dice.  Drones less than large are basically destroyed with a single hit.  And since they aren't cheap they need all the help they can get.     

Dr. Meatgrinder

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #10 on: (14:02:15/09-21-17) »
The basic melee/ranged Defense Test is not itself an Action.
Guiding principle for game balance:  Players avoid underpowered stuff and flock to overpowered stuff.
Missions Freelancer (SRM 04-10 Romero & Juliette, SRM 05-01 Chasin' the Wind, SRM 06-06 Falling Angels, PM-02 A Holy Piece of Wetwork)

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #11 on: (14:45:40/09-21-17) »
The basic melee/ranged Defense Test is not itself an Action.
And does a jumped in rigger roll Reaction + Intuition to avoid an attack?
Yeah, TMs got thrown in the cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube.
there is autosofts for everything  8)

Dr. Meatgrinder

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #12 on: (21:57:37/09-21-17) »
The basic melee/ranged Defense Test is not itself an Action.
And does a jumped in rigger roll Reaction + Intuition to avoid an attack?

Yes.

But just because you're picking up dice doesn't mean you're executing an Action; you're only rolling a Test.  Test and Action are different things, though they are frequently associated (and a lot of people conflate the two).
Guiding principle for game balance:  Players avoid underpowered stuff and flock to overpowered stuff.
Missions Freelancer (SRM 04-10 Romero & Juliette, SRM 05-01 Chasin' the Wind, SRM 06-06 Falling Angels, PM-02 A Holy Piece of Wetwork)

Kiirnodel

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #13 on: (03:43:55/09-22-17) »
That does beg the question of what defines what is and is not an action, though. Is it only things that are defined within the types of Actions? Only things that require some sort of motion or conscious choice to act?

If it is based on the types of Actions, does that mean that Defense becomes an action when you use an Interrupt like Block or Parry?

In that last case, it seems odd that some "action" bonuses would only apply to some defense tests but not all...

Jack_Spade

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Re: Rigged Defense/Dodge Dice Pool
« Reply #14 on: (05:41:28/09-22-17) »
The basic melee/ranged Defense Test is not itself an Action.
And does a jumped in rigger roll Reaction + Intuition to avoid an attack?

Yes.

But just because you're picking up dice doesn't mean you're executing an Action; you're only rolling a Test.  Test and Action are different things, though they are frequently associated (and a lot of people conflate the two).

The required "Action" is the control vehicle action. Without that you couldn't make your defense tests.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex