Author Topic: Pulse Storm "duration"  (Read 717 times)

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Pulse Storm "duration"
« on: (17:32:20/05-24-17) »
I understand that the effects occur immediately, however how long is the Target's noise increased?
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Jack_Spade

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #1 on: (19:38:25/05-24-17) »
As per the rules "Each complex form entry has a Target describing what it works on. A complex form with a Device target can also be used to target a persona. It also has a Duration listed as either I for immediate (it happens instantly with no lasting effects)..."

So by the rules it doesn't have any lasting effect. And since that's pretty silly I'd say either change it into sustained or have it work for combat rounds net hits.
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Kiirnodel

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #2 on: (17:23:55/05-27-17) »
Yeah... that's a head-scratcher how that that's gone unnoticed for so long.

My vote is that the Duration should be Sustained instead of Immediate.

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #3 on: (19:26:24/05-27-17) »
No its not lol. TMs just aren't played to the breadth as everything else. #Mages 3 TMs 0
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Beta-Max

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #4 on: (11:29:03/09-27-17) »
Since they've altered the Fading Value in the provisional Errata to be L-3, which matches the Drain for confusion, which is also an S spell, I'd think it was a Typo and make it S and have fun screwing over spiders.

Marcus

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #5 on: (12:38:10/09-27-17) »
Yeah... that's a head-scratcher how that that's gone unnoticed for so long.

O_o TM are dead, I mean really Dead. I know FST and one or two other have created a few new ones, but no one is running TM as they were "intended" or maybe as internet wizards if you prefer. The only reason no one has talked about the epic terribleness of the current TM errata is I doubt anyone outside this forum knows  it exists, and even among those in this forum I doubt many have read it. Honestly waiting for the next hacker book is fine, as at-least we actually have something approaching a date but it just heart breaking to me that we have seen a product like Anarchy before we have a fix to the disaster that is the TM issue. 

Mirikon

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #6 on: (13:07:12/09-27-17) »
Yeah... that's a head-scratcher how that that's gone unnoticed for so long.

O_o TM are dead, I mean really Dead. I know FST and one or two other have created a few new ones, but no one is running TM as they were "intended" or maybe as internet wizards if you prefer. The only reason no one has talked about the epic terribleness of the current TM errata is I doubt anyone outside this forum knows  it exists, and even among those in this forum I doubt many have read it. Honestly waiting for the next hacker book is fine, as at-least we actually have something approaching a date but it just heart breaking to me that we have seen a product like Anarchy before we have a fix to the disaster that is the TM issue. 

Yeah, TMs got absolutely butchered when Catalyst decided to go full speed on the nostalgia train and butcher the Matrix, and the abuse just doesn't stop. Hell, TMs were treated better by the megacorps during Emergence than they have been by 5E.
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Beta-Max

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #7 on: (14:57:24/09-27-17) »
I'm not gonna disagree. I'm not saying you can't make a viable TM character, its been done. HOWEVER, they don't fit the flavor in that they're at home in the matrix, its their home turf. It shouldn't matter what about the matrix has changed, but they shouldn't be gimped to THIS degree.

Mirikon

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #8 on: (17:01:53/09-27-17) »
The whole situation with the Matrix is a case of taking something that, while not perfect, at least worked, and then burning it to the ground and throwing up something that looks like what you half-remember from over a decade ago. 4E's Matrix wasn't perfect, but it was fairly balanced, and had a good mix of threat vs. reward, especially since all you needed was a commlink to get some basic encryption and IC, making any runner who had the nuyen better able to ward off rookie matrix attackers, for instance.

They decided to change things, and each change led to them needing bigger changes in order to unfuck the ripple effects of those changes. And since there were several big changes all coming together, it formed a perfect storm of suck. They wanted a more controlled matrix, so we got the return of Hosts, and GOD is keeping a close eye on things, which has a whole lot of issues for any hacker type. They wanted to get rid of remote hacking, so they put in noise, in order to force hackers out of the van or the secure place they were doing a six hour probing attack from, but realized that the hackers didn't have shit to do in combat, so they fucked everyone else by making everything hackable to get the bonuses the gear offered. They drank too much of the 2050 kool-aid, and wanted to bring back decks and rigger consoles, making it impossible for one person to cover both roles. And then, for some godforsaken reason, they had a collective aneurysm and thought that making TMs more like mages of the Matrix would be a good thing, even though Magic and the Matrix have fundamentally different ways of handling things, which resulted in TMs losing the one thing they had going for them: adaptability.
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Marcus

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #9 on: (00:31:11/09-28-17) »
The whole situation with the Matrix is a case of taking something that, while not perfect, at least worked, and then burning it to the ground and throwing up something that looks like what you half-remember from over a decade ago. 4E's Matrix wasn't perfect, but it was fairly balanced, and had a good mix of threat vs. reward, especially since all you needed was a commlink to get some basic encryption and IC, making any runner who had the nuyen better able to ward off rookie matrix attackers, for instance.

They decided to change things, and each change led to them needing bigger changes in order to unfuck the ripple effects of those changes. And since there were several big changes all coming together, it formed a perfect storm of suck. They wanted a more controlled matrix, so we got the return of Hosts, and GOD is keeping a close eye on things, which has a whole lot of issues for any hacker type. They wanted to get rid of remote hacking, so they put in noise, in order to force hackers out of the van or the secure place they were doing a six hour probing attack from, but realized that the hackers didn't have shit to do in combat, so they fucked everyone else by making everything hackable to get the bonuses the gear offered. They drank too much of the 2050 kool-aid, and wanted to bring back decks and rigger consoles, making it impossible for one person to cover both roles. And then, for some godforsaken reason, they had a collective aneurysm and thought that making TMs more like mages of the Matrix would be a good thing, even though Magic and the Matrix have fundamentally different ways of handling things, which resulted in TMs losing the one thing they had going for them: adaptability.

I  disagree with you that 4th Matrix was fair and balanced, the 4th matrix killed deckers. I mean the whole archtype ceased to exist for the whole edition. Yes part of that blame probably rests with TM, and yes in case your wondering I do think it's part of why TM have been crushed in 5th. I won't denie that 5th matrix has issues. But we have actually deckers in 5th, and wireless activity gear is A BRILLIANT idea, and helpful set of mechanics. It's also very nice to have AR be useful and central given that will live in a time where AR is only just beginning to threaten to take off. I can't accept that 4th matrix was better when it Killed the class intended to use it for goodness sakes.

Mirikon

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #10 on: (01:14:31/09-28-17) »
4E didn't kill Deckers. They just called them hackers. And 4E was the classless system SR portrays itself as. Priority System and forcing people to take massively expensive, mutually exclusive pieces of gear to either work the 'trix or rig drones to make de facto classes and saying it is still classless is like saying the Westboro Baptist Church is Christian: in name only.

5E is, in many ways, a deliberate step backwards in game design.
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  • Omae
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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #11 on: (01:34:43/09-28-17) »
5E is, in many ways, a deliberate step backwards in game design.
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SpellBinder

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #12 on: (01:40:21/09-28-17) »
One of my main story characters, writing still in SR4a era of the early 2070's, was a technomancer.  After reading the matrix rules for SR5 I had him go through an old school fading and later awakened him as a mystic adept.  Haven't decided which Way he'll walk, yet.

I know a guy that loves shadowrun, primarily does SR3 runs.  He started up a short lived campaign in SR5, and you know what the decker did his first action in combat?  Shot his Enfield AS-7, loaded with APDS slugs, in a short burst at his first target.  There have been near countless discussions about what deckers could do in combat, and hacking didn't have to be one of them as ANYONE can fire a gun.  Hell, I even had my hacker decker character make a joke line of, "Never bring a computer to a gunfight." in one chapter/adventure.

Marcus

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #13 on: (12:32:16/09-28-17) »
4E didn't kill Deckers. They just called them hackers. And 4E was the classless system SR portrays itself as. Priority System and forcing people to take massively expensive, mutually exclusive pieces of gear to either work the 'trix or rig drones to make de facto classes and saying it is still classless is like saying the Westboro Baptist Church is Christian: in name only.

That isn't consistent with my experience of 4th, and I played and GMed a lot of it. Other then TMs, Deckers were replaced by agents and cash. Yes Archtypes aren't classes, that still holds true in priority, it is a game design question. Priority is generally considered useful to lower the barrier to entry. New players given a pile of points and no guide have no idea what to do are are gonna get lost. I don't have an issue with point buy it's fine, i think 5th  karma total is on the stingie side of things, but I certainly agree you can make a character using it.

I'm not sold that it's step back in game design, parts of the system are solid, others that are weak. The good news is, 5th is still a work in progress and the system is still developing.

Mirikon

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Re: Pulse Storm "duration"
« Reply #14 on: (13:10:47/09-28-17) »
Yes Archtypes aren't classes, that still holds true in priority, it is a game design question.
When you have to spend a significant portion of your resources to do one thing, which locks out many other paths for secondary roles and in effect locks you into a single role in the party, then yes, it is effectively a class system. Part of what 4E did best was that point buy allowed you to make hybrids, or people who could cover multiple roles. Deckers who could also rig, for instance, or a rigger who could sling a bit of code if they had to. This was a good thing, as the average group for any RPG is 4-6 people, and in SR, you have a lot of roles that need to be covered. It allowed for redundancy, if nothing else, which was useful for when the party got split or someone got tagged and you had to finish the run without them. Did you see a decrease in 'pure' deckers who did nothing but sling code in the Matrix? Yes. And that was because they were finally free to DO more. Eliminating the insanely expensive decks and rigs broke those de facto classes into ACTUAL archetypes, much like with the Street Samurai, Combat Mage, or Face.

Priority is generally considered useful to lower the barrier to entry. New players given a pile of points and no guide have no idea what to do are are gonna get lost. I don't have an issue with point buy it's fine, i think 5th  karma total is on the stingie side of things, but I certainly agree you can make a character using it.
Training wheels on your bicycle and bumpers on the lanes at the bowling alley lower the barrier to entry, but there's a reason why they aren't the primary or default way of doing things. And honestly, the 'new people will get lost' argument is crap, because new people will get lost, regardless of the system. That's why good GMs either walk a player through making their first character, or give them a pregen that they can modify until they get their feet under them. That's true for every system I've played, which includes three editions of D&D, three editions of M&M, two editions of SR, three editions of HERO, two editions of BESM, Cortex System, Heroes Unlimited, GURPS, and the FASERIP of MSHRPG. Throw a kid into the deep end of the pool, and they're not going to know what to do. But that doesn't mean you make the pool 2' deep.

I'm not sold that it's step back in game design, parts of the system are solid, others that are weak. The good news is, 5th is still a work in progress and the system is still developing.
The parts of the system that are solid are the ones they didn't fuck with, and unfortunately, those include a lot of sacred cows that should have been made into steaks a long time ago, like the scaling karma costs. Priority is a step backward, just like if you put training wheels on your bike after you've been riding for years. The return of forcing people into what are classes in fact, if not name, is a huge step backwards for a supposedly classless system. The loss of many customization options (weapon and vehicle mods, spell creation rules, etc.) is a step backwards.

And frankly, saying it is a WIP and still developing is NOT good news. WIP is something you use BEFORE shit gets printed, not use as an excuse two years in. Don't get me wrong, I know there will be mistakes. That's what errata is for. But when massive sections of the game make demon rat drek look good in comparison, that means you should have fixed that shit BEFORE printing, or at the very least unfuck that mess quicker than they have. The Matrix in general (and TMs in particular) don't need a patch job. They need a ground up rewrite.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept trying to hide behind 5th being a 'work in progress' and 'still developing' when 6th edition rolls out. Hell, even D&D 4th did a better job at being a working system before they launched.
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