Author Topic: [SR4A] Confusion on pools and hacking  (Read 221 times)

Harvengure

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[SR4A] Confusion on pools and hacking
« on: (12:22:59/03-02-17) »
Hey all,

Please pardon if this is a noob question but my reading of the books as well as my searches around the net have not been able to turn up a direct answer.  There is some confusion as my table as to how decking works. One reading is that a decker uses, for example, their rating in the hacking skill (in this case, 6) and exploit which is 5 in this case. Giving a pool of 11.  Another reading suggest that, as per the dice pool section of the core book [SR4A pg 60] that the number for hacking is the pool and then add the exploit program. In this case a skill rating of 6, a logic of 6 and a rating modifier of 3; giving 15 and then 5 for exploit.

Which, if either, of these readings is the correct one and might any of you have any suggestions as specific information I might present to resolve the debate? It's been an ongoing thing.

Thank you in advance; any help is greatly appreciated.

farothel

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Re: [SR4A] Confusion on pools and hacking
« Reply #1 on: (13:04:08/03-02-17) »
For all matrix actions it's <skill> + <program> + <any modifiers>, so in your example, 11.  The attribute doesn't play in this.

Here are some cheat sheets I created a long time ago, with dice pools and page numbers.
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=3269.0
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute"

Harvengure

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Re: [SR4A] Confusion on pools and hacking
« Reply #2 on: (14:19:41/03-02-17) »
That will be very helpful, thank you.  Pardon my (and my table's) confusion but only one of us have played previously and none of us have played 4th prior to this. If this includes modifiers, would that not be 14? 11 plus the 3 of 5 rating modifier?

Am I (and the other players) missing where it specifies whether or not hacking doesn't also use the linked attribute? The players who assume it should also be using the dice pool cite the section on page 60.

Quote
Dice Pool Modifiers
The Shadowrun rules often call for a plus or minus dice modifier to a test. These modifiers can result from injuries and situational factors that affect what the character is trying to do. The modifier affects the number of dice used in the dice pool. If more than one dice modifier applies, they are added together and applied to the dice pool. Note that threshold modifiers (p. 63) do not affect the dice pool. Unless otherwise stated, any modifier mentioned is considered to be a dice pool modifier as noted above. Optionally, gamemasters may choose to cap dice pools (including modifiers) at 20 dice, or at twice the sum of the character’s natural Attribute + Skill ratings, whichever is higher.

Where as the number of our table who argue against it say that, if we use Hacking On The Fly as an example, the book says Hacking+Exploit, not Hacking+Logic+Exploit...but as per the earlier section some of our players think that it is pre-assumed you are using pool and not rating as is the case with so many other things in the game and as per the pool section.

The example in the book doesn't seem to indicate either, specifically, is the case and I am trying to resolve the issue between the two factions of players that have formed over the issue at the table. :P I am ambivalent as I can see the logic in both sides of the argument. :/

Quote
Rootkit has snuck into the bathroom of a biotech company and needs to get control of the building’s node to let the rest of his team into the building. Speed is key, so he starts hacking on the fly. He wants security access to gain control of the door locks, so the gamemaster adds three to the threshold (which is 4, the node’s Firewall attribute, but she keeps it a secret for now). Rootkit rolls his Hacking of 5 + Exploit of 5, plus 2 because he is using hot sim, for a total dice pool of 12. He rolls and gets 4 hits; he’s not in yet. In response, the node rolls its Firewall 4 + Rating 3 Analyze program it is running, getting 2 hits; not enough to reach Rootkit’s Stealth rating of 5.

In his next action phase, Rootkit continues his hack, rolling and getting 3 hits this time. That is just enough to get him in, and he automatically logs on to the node with a shiny new security account.

But wait! The node still has one last chance to detect his intrusion. It rolls and gets 2 hits, still not enough to detect the hacker. Rootkit opens the doors for his team and starts poking around the node.

farothel

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Re: [SR4A] Confusion on pools and hacking
« Reply #3 on: (08:04:33/03-03-17) »
It's always program rating + skill rating + applicable modifiers (like hot sim, which gives a +2, some cyberwear also adds to this, adverse circumstances can detract dice, GMs choice).  It's the same logic to all other tests, but you replace attribute with program rating.

It's stated in the base book p208 (this is the old SR4 base book, not the SR4 20A version, where the page number is different):
Quote
Matrix skill tests use the same skill
+ attribute dice pool as other tests, except that since you are
interfacing with the machine world, you use an appropriate device
or program attribute in place of your character’s attribute.
If your character is examining a stolen datafile to determine
what corporate databank it came from, for example, you roll
your Computer skill + Analyze program.

I'm not sure what you mean with the 3 of 5 rating modifier?
« Last Edit: (08:08:02/03-03-17) by farothel »
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute"