NEWS

How much Noise to disconnect?

  • 10 Replies
  • 2562 Views

忍

  • *
  • Guest
« on: <01-14-17/2028:12> »
Say some runners what to shutdown matrix communications. How much Noise would they need to make to prevent any messages, commcalls, cat videos being sent or received?

Would you base it off Device Rating or Data Processing when applicable?

IntrepidVector

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 78
« Reply #1 on: <01-14-17/2219:51> »
I believe overcoming the Device Rating of anything trying to make a call should be enough, based on the idea that the "Wireless bonus" of a commlink is what you're disabling.

Kiirnodel

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 1471
« Reply #2 on: <01-15-17/0432:39> »
So by strict RAW rules, Noise never completely disables devices. If the Noise is greater than the Device Rating it prevents the use of "Wireless Bonuses" only. So technically, this means that you can't disable the basic functionality of devices. Commllinks could still make calls for instance.

Personally, I think that Noise should be split up into different categories, like making a distinction between Distance, Spam Zones, Dead Zones, and Jamming. Adding these distinctions would make it possible to have certain Noise reduction features only work on certain types of Noise (for example, a datajack might not help at all with Distance-based Noise). Additionally, I would also say that Jamming signals should actually do what they are meant to do, cause a full disruption of a device. So a Rating 2 commlink in a relatively bad Spam Zone might still be able to make calls and search the Matrix (albeit at a penalty), but if an enemy is pointing a Rating 2+ Jammer at them, it should short out all connectivity...

Just my 2 nuyen, not sure if it helps.

Quatar

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 414
« Reply #3 on: <01-15-17/0920:52> »
Distance and other noise are already distinct, as it's "not including distance noise" in the check if it shuts of wireless bonus.

And wireless bonus gets cut off, because the device can't connect to the matrix anymore, and can't get additinal data from there. Under that logic commlinks can't make calls. You can still use them to connect your PAN together, use DNI and whatnot to cotnrol your cyberware etc. Just not access the matrix.

Yes it's not explicitly spelled out, but a little common sense goes a long way here.

Tym Jalynsfein

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 208
« Reply #4 on: <01-16-17/1029:58> »
Which is why, for team communications, you use Micro-Transceivers.
1km Range with no Matrix Access - Hard to cut offf matrix communications to something that does not really need it. :)
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

Kincaid

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2623
« Reply #5 on: <01-16-17/1738:50> »
One of the examples given is cutting a car off from GridGuide, which isn't a wireless bonus, in the strictest sense of the term.  /nudges the errata team
Killing so many sacred cows, I'm banned from India.

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #6 on: <01-19-17/1120:49> »
we've discussed it.

If the noise exceeds the device rating it goes offline/ loses wireless connectivity (not just the bonus).

"Noise Rating from a situation that is greater than the item’s Device Rating, not including distance, the item temporarily loses its wireless functionality (see Noise, p. 230)."

"Jammer: This device  oods the airwaves with electro- magnetic jamming signals to block out wireless and radio communication. The jammer generates noise equal to its Device Rating."

It's fairly clear unless you read the first sentence's "wireless functionality" to only mean "wireless bonus" which is clearly not how it's written.

Yes this means low rating comlinks and metalinks are junk (what did you expect?).
It also means it's very easy to knock offline a smartlink (device rating 2) and many other devices UNLESS you have noise reduction gear to combat the jammer.

Kincaid

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2623
« Reply #7 on: <01-19-17/1141:51> »
we've discussed it.

If the noise exceeds the device rating it goes offline/ loses wireless connectivity (not just the bonus).

"Noise Rating from a situation that is greater than the item’s Device Rating, not including distance, the item temporarily loses its wireless functionality (see Noise, p. 230)."

"Jammer: This device  oods the airwaves with electro- magnetic jamming signals to block out wireless and radio communication. The jammer generates noise equal to its Device Rating."

It's fairly clear unless you read the first sentence's "wireless functionality" to only mean "wireless bonus" which is clearly not how it's written.

Yes this means low rating comlinks and metalinks are junk (what did you expect?).
It also means it's very easy to knock offline a smartlink (device rating 2) and many other devices UNLESS you have noise reduction gear to combat the jammer.

Although I am absolutely thrilled to hear this, no one is happier than Full Deck, who has, for years, worried his throwing of the jammer on page 176 was all for naught.
Killing so many sacred cows, I'm banned from India.

The Bald Man

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 191
« Reply #8 on: <01-20-17/1751:52> »
isn't there an electronics warfare roll that can be used to reduce noise.  Rating 6 jammer vs Rating 4 commlink would know it offline unless the user could cut through a bunch of noise.  Sure it takes a complex action and skill, but it should work. 

Kiirnodel

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 1471
« Reply #9 on: <01-20-17/2029:27> »
Ok, I see where my confusion on your "its perfectly clear" routine is. You didn't tell us where that information is being stated.

If we start in the section in the Matrix chapter that details the effects of Noise, we get this:
Quote from: Core Rulebook pg 230; Noise paragraph 3
To figure out how noise is affecting you, start with the noise level from real-world distance to your target and add the noise level from any other applicable situations, then subtract any noise reduction you are using. Any positive noise level you have left over is a negative dice pool modifier to your actions. Noise never applies to defense or resistance tests.
So far, no mention of any loss of wireless anything. Just a penalty on actions.

Go forward to the Gear chapter, and Noise isn't mentioned at all under the heading "Wireless functionality" but is noted in the next section "Wireless Bonuses" which is where adzling's first quote is from. And you cut off the sentences preceding it which heavily influence the context of the statement. The paragraph you cut that from is describing Wireless bonuses, referring to them as the "wireless functionality" Here is the FULL quote:
Quote from: Core Rulebook pg 421; Wireless Bonus, paragraph 2
When an item has additional functionality when connected to the Matrix, it’s described under the “Wireless” entry in the item’s description. This functionality only applies when the device has access to the Matrix, which is most of the time unless your gamemaster says otherwise, like if you’ve entered a wireless static zone. If there is a Noise Rating from a situation that is greater than the item’s Device Rating, not including distance, the item temporarily loses its wireless functionality (see Noise, p. 230).
Reading the entire context, we see that the implication is that by "wireless functionality" it is referring specifically to the Wireless bonus entry in the gear listings. That first sentence is defining it that way. And that is why many people say that Noise only negates the wireless bonus. Notably, it also says "see Noise" which (once again) only states that it applies a dice penalty on Matrix actions.

Based purely on the Noise rules for Spam and Static zones, I don't see the intent being that commlinks are rendered completely useless if the Noise exceeds the device rating. I mean, take a look at the Spam and Static Zones chart on page 231. Simply being in a downtown sprawl is a Noise Rating of 2, and going into the commercial area of said sprawl ramps it up to Noise 5. If this knocked out all use of commlinks, 90+% of people wouldn't be able to go shopping! Grid-guide for cars wouldn't function, transactions wouldn't work unless you had one of the most expensive commlinks on the market. The rule of thumb I still go by is that most average NPCs probably have around a Rating 3 commlink, which just would cease to function in a highly populated area, which is ludicrous. I would expect connectivity issues, like losing access to special features, penalties to actions, but not complete loss of basic functions.

Notably, I would accept that Jammers and the Jam signals action might apply an additional effect while also appying Noise. If Jammers created Noise and added the effect that Noise can completely shut off matrix connection, that would be cool. I'm also willing to accept the idea that Static zones might be enough to cause connection problems (ala your device doesn't have a strong enough signal to connect correctly to the Matrix where you are). But I also note that Static Zones are strangely tied to Distance penalties when they probably shouldn't be. Rating 5 Static mentions "remote area with satellite access only", while a Satellite link specifically limits Noise due to distance to -5. Those two things don't seem to jive right to me...

My comment from earlier still holds, I feel that the different things that cause Noise should have more precise effects and remedies. Lumping everything together into one giant Noise rating limits the functionality of the rule and brings us to this ridiculous idea that when enough commlinks are in the same area together they all stop working.

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #10 on: <01-20-17/2311:48> »
Good stuff I'll take it to the errata team
Thanks