Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Gargoyalll on <10-04-17/2009:12>

Title: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Gargoyalll on <10-04-17/2009:12>
this question is mildly complicated so bear with me.

Some cyberware and bioware have essence cost of 0.1 percent such as the data jack. the quality biocompatibility from pg 54 of chrome flesh says that you round down to the nearest tenth (0.72 rounds down to 0.7). assuming you combine delta grade (50% reduction in essence cost) with biocompatibility you reduce the essence cost for a data jack to 0.04 which rounds down to zero, which means you could potentially have a magic user with multiple implants and no essence loss. Is this a correct interpretation of the rules.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Kesendeja on <10-04-17/2249:41>
I've always took the view that .01 is the lowest you can go. So there is always some loss.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Kiirnodel on <10-05-17/0038:43>
The general consensus on the wording you are referring to (in Biocompatibility) is that the "round down to the nearest tenth" is referring to the multiplier, not the final essence cost.

As you pointed out, there are many essence costs that will quickly fall below one tenth of an essence point, and this quality would seemingly reduce these essence costs to zero, and that is not likely the intent.  If you instead treat the biocompatibility as a modifier to the essence cost multiplier, it works out better. The example Biocompatibility gives actually uses that, the .72 rounded down to .7 is talking about the cost multiplier for Alphaware grade cyberware.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Beta-Max on <10-05-17/1001:25>
regardless, of what tiny little essence value you're gettting, you still lose a full point. If you're going to go so far as to get a datajack, may as well get some other bits to fill out the rest of that nice 1.0 you're losing.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Mirikon on <10-05-17/1107:09>
It is much easier (and actually going by both the spirit and letter of the rules) to have an awakened with multiple implants if they do Prototype Transhuman with bioware implants.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Spooky on <10-05-17/1707:35>
Don' t forget to add Biocompatability to that, Mirikon, so that you get the biggest bang for the essence
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Mirikon on <10-05-17/1815:30>
Indeed. Though since you still have to pay the nuyen costs, you're going to have a lot of trouble doing that at chargen due to priorities.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Gargoyalll on <10-05-17/2020:40>
Quote
The general consensus on the wording you are referring to (in Biocompatibility) is that the "round down to the nearest tenth" is referring to the multiplier, not the final essence cost.

As you pointed out, there are many essence costs that will quickly fall below one tenth of an essence point, and this quality would seemingly reduce these essence costs to zero, and that is not likely the intent.  If you instead treat the biocompatibility as a modifier to the essence cost multiplier, it works out better. The example Biocompatibility gives actually uses that, the .72 rounded down to .7 is talking about the cost multiplier for Alphaware grade cyberware.

the issue with this is that it specifies that the reduction from biocompatability is cumulative with the reduction offered by the chosen ware's grade which if taken as read from the book you add the reduction from ware grade together with the reduction from biocompatibility so the x 0.8  modifier for Alpha grade cyber ware becomes x 0.7 (reduction of 0.8 + reduction of 0.1= reduction of 0.7). Also after rereading the quality (again) an implant with a 0.1 essence cost such as a data jack would still cost zero essence with biocompatability even without utilizing a reduction due to the grade of the ware, since it specifies that you round down to the nearest tenth {data jack cost 0.1 essence, reduced by 10 % to 0.09 essence which rounds down to 0.00}
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Kiirnodel on <10-06-17/0045:49>
Exactly, it is cumulative, and then it gives a specific example of how it combines with the grade reduction, which includes the rounding.

Quote
This rebate is cumulative with the reduction offered by the chosen 'ware's grade, if any (e.g., the reduction for alphaware of 0.8 is reduced by ten percent, or 0.08, to become 0.72, and is rounded down to 0.7).

Based on that, it is clear that the intent was for the reduction by ten percent to be applied to the essence cost multipliers of the various grades.

GRADEESS COST MULT.ESS COST MULT W/ BIOCOMPAT.
Standard
x 1.0
x 0.9
Alphaware
x 0.8
x 0.7
Betaware
x 0.7
x 0.6
Deltaware
x 0.5
x 0.4
Used
x 1.25
x 1.1

Each of those calculations is "reduced by ten percent, rounded down to the nearest tenth" it results in 'ware costs that make sense and you don't have any weird non-essence ware.
Yes, they could have phrased it differently to make it clearer, but as you pointed out in your OP, it seems odd to have 'ware essence cost get rounded down to 0 (because it shouldn't).

In the good old days, we would have just not had any phrasing about rounding and you have street sams calculating their essence out to ten-thousandths of a point.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: SpellBinder on <10-06-17/1333:22>
Yes, the explanation on the math could have been done much better, and as I interpret the intent of it is laid out pretty much as Kiirnodel posted it (I usually avoid Used, as have past players).

But the good old days?  I still don't drop any decimal points in the final Essence tally.  If the calculation goes down to the ten-thousandth digit, then it goes to the ten-thousandth digit.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <10-08-17/0626:12>
Not bothering to look it up, but most GMs will not round 0.01 (much less 0.7 or 0.9) down to 0 essence impact.  Most GMs and players of my acquaintance, as well as (AFAIK) both major programs (HeroLab and Chummer5), round essence impacts at least to the nearest hundredth, scaling things to 0.01 Essence; I myself go to four decimal places (0.0001 essence).  With the possible exception of someone sticking tracking or killswitch cyberware into you - stuff that you have no control over, and might not even know about - every piece of 'ware is going to cost SOME essence.  That's simply part of the philosophy of the game.
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: &#24525; on <10-08-17/1300:43>
Except cranial bombs
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: The Wyrm Ouroboros on <10-08-17/1827:26>
That's the killswitch part.  It just kills you, not your cyberware.  ;)
Title: Re: Magic users and 0 essence cost implants
Post by: Glyph on <10-08-17/1830:40>
Quote from: 忍 on <10-08-17/1300:43>
Except cranial bombs

Not to mention a lot of the cosmetic biomods, although even those start costing Essence once you get past the more superficial changes.