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General Discussion / Re: Can you astral project through water?
« Last post by Mirikon on Today at 15:18:21 »
I thought the reason ivy or other such things were considered astral security wasn't because projecting through them was impossible, but it was more difficult, and had the chance of being noticed, even by mundanes. Basically, it was the 'chill down your back' like you just stepped through a ghost.
General Discussion / Re: Can you astral project through water?
« Last post by Jack_Spade on Today at 14:33:16 »
To provide the rules for 5e: Run&Gun of all places, p.158, explains the caveats of under water projection:

within 10m of the surface -2 penalty to astral perception, -4 in warm waters, even especially clear water still sports a -1
but navigating only ever has a -2 penalty
Astral projection is not stopped by micro-organisms, isn't slowed by water, but might be disorienting (Assensing test (3) to avoid losing sense of direction)
Errata / Re: Cutting Aces Errata
« Last post by firebug on Today at 14:04:02 »
I have a feeling it's intended to apply to all Negotiation tests.  That one the team will be able to decide on easily.
General Discussion / Re: Can you astral project through water?
« Last post by SpellBinder on Today at 13:57:27 »
Too bad Street Magic removed a notation that was in SR3's Magic In The Shadows regarding projection through the Earth.  Earth elementals/spirits could add their Force as a DP bonus to how quickly you could move through the Earth, and guide you without the risk of getting lost.  IIRC being a drake of one of the Great Dragons (Lung, I believe) would let you freely astrally project through the Earth as if it wasn't there.

As for the suggestion of the Marianas Trench, you really wanna tread where Lung, Ryumyo, and/or the Sea Dragon are likely to claim as their domain?  Yeah, yeah, I know the Sea Dragon's supposed to primarily lair near Wales, but when she claims the seas as her domain you seriously think she's gonna limit her self to just the Atlantic?  And the trench isn't just a deep pit at the floor of the Pacific but a fault between the Philippine & Pacific plates, part of the Ring Of Fire that Ryumyo & Lung are vying for control of.
Yeah, pgs 313-314.
Levitate myself or him?
Levitate is self only, and the reason you don't generally do that, is unless you happen to invisibility or the all concealing shadows to hide in, as your now a floating target for everyone with guns.

I'm yet to encounter a Magician with the audacity to ignore an Improved Invisibility spell. It's just too good.
Anyway, we were talking about melee self-defense, and being unreachable is a great way to defend yourself.
Errata / Re: Cutting Aces Errata
« Last post by Beta on Today at 12:52:28 »
The Master Debater quality (10 karma) let's you use Logic in place of Charisma on Diplomacy checks.  Which could be as intended, but I wonder because:

1) Diplomacy is a specialization of Negotiation
2) The empathetic listener quality costs the same (10 karma) and lets you use intuition in place of charisma for etiquette tests.  For the same cost I'd expect a similar level of effect (applying to a full skill, not just one specialization)
3) The description of the skill doesn't sound very diplomatic to me (possibly leaving the other person upset but getting your way).   Diplomacy is usually about crafting something that feels like a win-win.

I wonder if it was supposed to apply to all of negotiate, or possibly to contracts or bargaining rather than diplomacy?
General Discussion / Re: Can you astral project through water?
« Last post by Marcus on Today at 12:07:50 »
In prior editions you couldn't project through living auras.  Things like ivy coverings on walls were considered a form of astral security!  This is also the basis of the root of the "no projecting through the earth" rule- the Gaiasphere was considered for game mechanics puproses to be a living entity and therefore blocking astral travel.

As of 5th edition they metaphysics have changed.  Not only can you project through living auras, security personnel often get training to recognize what it feels like when someone does this and can get a bonus to detect it.
OTOH the prohibition against going through the earth still applies.  (old sourcebooks where ivy or bacteria-laced wallpaper once blocked astral travel no longer do so if used in modern edition, but old sources where astral security involved putting the site underground and forcing astral intruders to use the same tunnel(s) as mundanes is still a valid tactic)  I can't find any "fluff" rationale in 5th ed as to why you can project through the living but not the earth as "the Gaiasphere is alive" argument doesn't fly anymore.  It just is what it is now: the rule bluntly says you can't go through the earth without saying why.

Since the blunt statement doesn't preclude water and water never stopped it in prior editions, I don't see why water should stop it now.

As for something like projecting to the marianas trench:  Since the "Gaiasphere is alive!" premise is no longer valid for 5th ed- why not call someplace so removed from the bustle of (sea)life like that a mana void?  Of of course you could make it the domain of critters of your design/pleasing.  Or heck maybe there's just nothing down there worth looking at, so no mage ever makes a return visit.

Where is that discussed? Core somewhere I assume?
General Discussion / Re: Can you astral project through water?
« Last post by Rosa on Today at 11:44:06 »
Not entirely correct about Astral projection in previous editions.

Astral forms would slow you down but you could in fact pass through them,  which would also give them a chance to notice it. ( SR4 20TH page 192-93 ).

About the living earth,  it is correct that the core book simply states that it blocks astral forms, however street magic expands upon this and states that pressing through the living earth is similar to pressing through an astral barrier and gives rules for how it works,  as well as rules for how to avoid getting lost which is fairly easy. ( Street Magic page 114-115. )

This was also more or less how it was in 3rd edition as far as I remember.

You will find the rules for Astral perception and projection under water in Run and Gun on page 158.
HotSim VR is supposed to be addictive, yes.  They approach the levels that make BTL very addictive, but aren't as bad as BTLs.  Foci are another thing that are technically addictive but nobody ever uses those rules, since if you have foci addiction, you will always have some foci unless someone steals all of your foci and destroys them.  Honestly, in SRM I would just ignore the rules.

Yeah changing the rules governing whether you GET addicted isn't my concern.  My concern is that SRM limits what you're allowed to get addicted to, hence the Hot Sim conundrum.  You're not allowed to have Sex addiction or addictions to cigarettes/soykaf because they don't negatively impact you enough for the structured play of SRM (i.e. cost ~500 =Y= per hit per the SRM guideline).  Hot Sim seems to be more in this category than in the category of addictions to BTLs/Street Drugs.
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