[flatlyne2001]

I'm trying to get understand how the new MA rules are setup.  Does this just totally do away with the UC skill now and just fall under a "Specialization"?

Let's use Firefight for example(since it and Krav Maga are going to factor into designing a new style I'm working on):
So would I add a Spec of Firefight under Pistols for +2 dice and then possible dice from Advantages?  Is that all it would do?

Any insight into how people are interpreting this would be greatly appreciated.

flatline

[Medicineman]

Does this just totally do away with the UC skill now and just fall under a "Specialization"?
neither Nor !!
The Martial Arts from Arsenal are something separate !

You can take Unarmed Combat and Specialize (f.E. ) in Boxing .Everytime You're Boxing you get your specialisation Bonus , and whenever You Kick or Headbutt you don't.
The Martial Arts means you get a Bonus (according to the 4Level) to your Unarmed Attacks.
 

Let's use Firefight for example(since it and Krav Maga are going to factor into designing a new style I'm working on):
So would I add a Spec of Firefight under Pistols for +2 dice and then possible dice from Advantages?  Is that all it would do?
OK Firefight:
NO.
It's not a specialisation !
You might take light Pistols as Special. of Handguns or Semiautonmatics (using  the specialisaton rules from the BBB )
when you take Firefight Lvl 1 (its a 5 BP Advantage or a 10 Karma)you may choose one of the 4 advantages .And whenever you're in that Situation you can use that mod.
but you still have to fight either with UC or Clubs (improvised Pistolbutts) in Melee or with Pistlskill in
a Firefight

HokaHey
Medicineman

[FastJack]

• Each level (each 5BP spent) of Martial Arts allows you to choose One Advantage and Two Maneuvers to complement your Unarmed Combat rolls. Advantages can increase DV, defense tests, Dodge, etc. Manuevers allow special "moves" to give you benefits against your opponent.
  You can also Specialize the Unarmed Combat skill to the Martial Art you choose, granting the +2 specialization bonus to dice rolls.
• Firefight is still an Unarmed Combat, not granting bonuses to Pistols or any other ranged attack.

[Critias]

The Martial Arts (Quality) is best thought of as completely disassociated from Martial Arts (the Unarmed Combat Specialiation).  It's a whole different ball of wax, seperate entirely from the skill.

Martial Arts (Qualities) give you bonuses to certain things (like extra damage value for certain attacks), or give you extra goodies that modify or alter an existing rule (like letting you partially ignore the modifier for Firing in a Melee, letting you Ready Weapon more quickly, or letting you deal damage with a Disarm). 

Martial Arts (the Unarmed Combat Specialization) is among the vaguest Specializations in the game, but like all other Specializations all it does is give you +2 dice to apropriate skill rolls.  It has nothing at all to do with the Quality, or Maneuvers, or anything else listed under the Martial Arts rules in Arsenal.

What aspects of Krav Maga or Firefight are you interested in, specifically?  The more specific the question, the more specific the answer can be.   

[Kontact]

or give you extra goodies that modify or alter an existing rule (like letting you partially ignore the modifier for Firing in a Melee

This is important to remember.  Firefight and Krav Maga do not give you bonus dice to shoot. 
Normally, when you are attempting to shoot someone while engaged in H2H Melee combat, you receive a -3 penalty to your dice in trying to hit a target.  With the "shooting in melee" FF and KM qualities, your gun-ninja can completely eliminate that penalty.  However, this training does not make shooting any easier in normal gunfights, only gunfights where the character would normally be penalized because someone is swinging a combat axe at them while they try to shoot.

Martial Arts (the Unarmed Combat Specialization) is among the vaguest Specializations in the game, but like all other Specializations all it does is give you +2 dice to apropriate skill rolls.  It has nothing at all to do with the Quality, or Maneuvers, or anything else listed under the Martial Arts rules in Arsenal.

Also for consideration, all specialties are reliant on GM consideration and approval.  Many GMs allow the super-broad suggested Specializations on things like "Martial Arts" for Unarmed and "Semi-autos" for pistols specifically because of the general lack of advantage those skills have in traditional combat.  Pistols losing out to automatics in most combat situations, if only because of their limited effective range, and unarmed losing out to, well, guns in most every case.  Some GMs might nix this over-broad specialization in cases where the character takes Pistoleering or Unarmed combat to extremes, such as an adept gunfighter/punchwizard.

[Medicineman]

Many GMs allow the super-broad suggested Specializations on things like "Martial Arts" for Unarmed
(for Me )Each and every MA is its own Specialisation; Wing Chun, Tae Kwon Do, Crane Style Kung Fu,Savate....
(even Tiger Kung Fu from Snake in the Eagles Shadow (Se ying diu sau -original title) is its own Specialisation)

He who dances in the Eagles Shadow
Medicineman

[Usda Beph]

(even Tiger Kung Fu from Snake in the Eagles Shadow (Se ying diu sau -original title) is its own Specialisation)

If this system combines those three styles...Ouch!

[Medicineman]

If this system combines those three styles...Ouch!
Snake, Tiger, Eagle....?
Only If You're Bruce Lee reincarnated


Shadowrun is no Streetfighter
If you want more Martial Arts ,kombinations ,etc you'll need something else (GURPS, Wu Shu, HKAT,Exalted maybe)

with a martial Dance
Medicineman

[Critias]

Many GMs allow the super-broad suggested Specializations on things like "Martial Arts" for Unarmed
(for Me )Each and every MA is its own Specialisation; Wing Chun, Tae Kwon Do, Crane Style Kung Fu,Savate....
(even Tiger Kung Fu from Snake in the Eagles Shadow (Se ying diu sau -original title) is its own Specialisation)

He who dances in the Eagles Shadow
Medicineman

The problem there is folks can then get nitpicky about when their specialization does (or doesn't) help.  There are some arts out there that folks will argue you always get it, where others (like a guy who takes Boxing or Wrestling) where there's a very clear cut time when it will or won't apply.

[FastJack]

I just usually assume that unless there's a definite reason the specialization doesn't apply (like the only gun you can find is a Light Machine Gun and you have the Pistols Specialization), you always use it.

[Usda Beph]

If this system combines those three styles...Ouch!
Snake, Tiger, Eagle....?
Only If You're Bruce Lee reincarnated


Shadowrun is no Streetfighter
If you want more Martial Arts ,kombinations ,etc you'll need something else (GURPS, Wu Shu, HKAT,Exalted maybe)

with a martial Dance
Medicineman

Meds... You don't want to start in that direction with me! You don't need to be Bruce to combine different styles and be more dangerous than your [Yogi]average bear![/Yogi]

[Devil]

Many GMs allow the super-broad suggested Specializations on things like "Martial Arts" for Unarmed
(for Me )Each and every MA is its own Specialisation; Wing Chun, Tae Kwon Do, Crane Style Kung Fu,Savate....
(even Tiger Kung Fu from Snake in the Eagles Shadow (Se ying diu sau -original title) is its own Specialisation)

He who dances in the Eagles Shadow
Medicineman

The problem there is folks can then get nitpicky about when their specialization does (or doesn't) help.  There are some arts out there that folks will argue you always get it, where others (like a guy who takes Boxing or Wrestling) where there's a very clear cut time when it will or won't apply.

Which arts do people say you always get a bonus for? I can't think of any all-encompassing martial arts, but I don't have really extensive knowledge of many styles.

[Critias]

Many GMs allow the super-broad suggested Specializations on things like "Martial Arts" for Unarmed
(for Me )Each and every MA is its own Specialisation; Wing Chun, Tae Kwon Do, Crane Style Kung Fu,Savate....
(even Tiger Kung Fu from Snake in the Eagles Shadow (Se ying diu sau -original title) is its own Specialisation)

He who dances in the Eagles Shadow
Medicineman

The problem there is folks can then get nitpicky about when their specialization does (or doesn't) help.  There are some arts out there that folks will argue you always get it, where others (like a guy who takes Boxing or Wrestling) where there's a very clear cut time when it will or won't apply.

Which arts do people say you always get a bonus for? I can't think of any all-encompassing martial arts, but I don't have really extensive knowledge of many styles.

Krav Maga borrows from striking and grappling arts, as does the fictional Sioux Wildcat (so any time they're doing anything, they could argue they get their bonus, right?).  What does a Carromeleg fighter look like, and when would he get his extra dice if he specialized that way?  What is the functional difference between a Savateur, an American Kickboxer, and a Muay Thai fighter, in Shadowrun? 

In a game where combat is as abstract as it is in Shadowrun, I don't think adding layers upon layers of specificity is going to be a big help.  Toss in the fact that some folks know more about martial arts than others, combine it with the fact that some martial arts claim to be able to do more than other martial arts...and I just see a "realism" versus "game balance" conflict, brewing.

[Devil]

Yeah, you'd need to do extensive study of each martial art.

While I know many styles have movements for many situations, personally I have trouble believing that one style covers every aspect of unarmed fighting.

I only know enough about american kickboxing to write a breakdown of it (That is the style I know best), but it would be interesting to see the results if we compiled detailed info on every martial art and what areas of fighting they cover.

Of course that would be quite challenging.

[Usda Beph]

Many GMs allow the super-broad suggested Specializations on things like "Martial Arts" for Unarmed
(for Me )Each and every MA is its own Specialisation; Wing Chun, Tae Kwon Do, Crane Style Kung Fu,Savate....
(even Tiger Kung Fu from Snake in the Eagles Shadow (Se ying diu sau -original title) is its own Specialisation)

He who dances in the Eagles Shadow
Medicineman

The problem there is folks can then get nitpicky about when their specialization does (or doesn't) help.  There are some arts out there that folks will argue you always get it, where others (like a guy who takes Boxing or Wrestling) where there's a very clear cut time when it will or won't apply.

Which arts do people say you always get a bonus for? I can't think of any all-encompassing martial arts, but I don't have really extensive knowledge of many styles.

Krav Maga borrows from striking and grappling arts, as does the fictional Sioux Wildcat (so any time they're doing anything, they could argue they get their bonus, right?).  What does a Carromeleg fighter look like, and when would he get his extra dice if he specialized that way?  What is the functional difference between a Savateur, an American Kickboxer, and a Muay Thai fighter, in Shadowrun? 

In a game where combat is as abstract as it is in Shadowrun, I don't think adding layers upon layers of specificity is going to be a big help.  Toss in the fact that some folks know more about martial arts than others, combine it with the fact that some martial arts claim to be able to do more than other martial arts...and I just see a "realism" versus "game balance" conflict, brewing.

Since the game kinda specifies that there are two levels of specialization for Krav have the player spend the points to be specialized both ways. or just one way or the other (armed/unarmed).