[belaran]

Hi,

With one of my player picking up Mind Probe, we've read again the Detection Spell description and rules. Up until now, I applied the the Range : T to the spell effect thus stating that one needs to touch the person one wants to read the mind from. However, it seems , looking at the generic part about detection spell, that the Target of the spell is the Mage itself (or the one being granted by him, the effect of the spell).

Thus, making possible to Mind Probe somebody from a distance - as long as he is within the spell effect area zone, and that the character using Mind Probe is somewhat aware of his target (direct line of sight, but also hearing the person behind a door, or smelling him seems to be OK too).

Is this the common interpretation of the rule ? Or is there a FAQ or Mission Rules saying otherwise ?

[Kiirnodel]

It mentions that in the first sentence of the spell: "This spell allows the subject to telepathically probe the mind of a specific target within range of the sense (chosen when the spell is cast)."

"Range of the sense" is based on the definition for all detection spells. However, it does specify that the target must be chosen at the time of casting, so Mind Probe doesn't let you cast it once and just rove around invading people's minds. It's also Directional, so it works like "normal sight" presumably meaning the target of the actual probe must be in LOA.

[Marcus]

Yeah high dice mind probe is a little dangerous, but it just means a little more planning and couple extra layer of cut outs.

[Sphinx]

As with most Detection spells (SR5 p.285), the magician casts the spell on a subject (range touch); that subject can then use the sense on a single target within [Force x Magic] meters. So yeah, as written, the magician casts Mind Probe on a person (usually himself) who then uses it at range.

As a house rule, we make Mind Probe an exception to the usual Detection rules: The magician must use Mind Probe personally, and must physically touch the target. This sets some practical limits on mind-reading, and allows the spell to be useful but not plot-busting. I highly recommend it.

Shadowrun really ought to have some range options besides Touch and Line of Sight, like "Personal" spells that spellcasters can only use on themselves.

[Tym Jalynsfein]

In 4th Edition/Anniversary, modifying a spell to be "Self Only" was worth -2 Drain.
Pretty sure that did not cross into 5th Edition, though.

[belaran]

It did not indeed, nor would I allow (IHMO).

@Sphinx I'm going to run with the Spell as it is (RAW) and see if it is punching holes in my game. If so, I'll revert it to touch only.

Thanks for the feedback, guys !

[Tym Jalynsfein]

It did not indeed, nor would I allow (IHMO).

You have me curious... Why would you not allow it at your table?

[belaran]

Mostly to not add to the crunch - I think 5E has enough crunch as it is. Also, if you look carefully, there is very few options to boost your drain's dice pool (Centering or help by Mentor Spirit) in the game, and I think it is on purpose. Anykind of tweaking on the drain pool may change the balance of the game. I already think that Mindprobe is not bounded enough to my taste (as mentioned, it can be a plot killer - like the Search power of Spirits). So that the two main reason for me to not allow it.

[Tym Jalynsfein]

Makes a bit of sense...

But there is no lack of ways to gain impressive Drain Resistance abilities for mages with the desire.
Our last Magician was rolling 20 base Dice (Quickened Stats to 10 each) prior to His Initiations which gave him even more dice to resist drain with Metamagic, Focus additions and Mentor boinuses if I remember correctly. 

[belaran]

Exactly the kind of stuff I would like to avoid

Let's do the math here, if one can roll 20 dices for drain resistance, one can cast Force 5 for "free", and certainly risk to cast higher Force (like 10) with a good chance of getting out without too much damage... I don't want (as a GM) to deal with this kind of shit

[Tym Jalynsfein]

Understandable... 

But to be fair, Most of the people palying Mages that I associate with take great pains to minimize Drain, even if not going overboard on Drain Resistance. My last Magician only really ever cast Force 3-5 spells so as to minimize the drain to acceptable levels... Yes, that did mean that occasionally I was unsuccessful in casting a successful spoell, but that is the price one pays for being cautious with putting the proverbail gun to the head when spellcasting...