[Jarrod]

I've always had problems with some of the rules. Please help.

1. Can you see devices slaved to a host while outside the host?

2. When it comes to finding icons over 100 meters away, can I simply use Matrix Perception "look" at a spot in the Matrix/real world over 100 meters away and see what icons are there? If not, do I just need some other way to know exactly what I'm looking for before I look?

3. The device icons I see within 100 meters, do they they freely indicate what their real world counterpart is. Another way of asking is, if I know there are 10 security cameras within 100 meters and I can physically see 5 of them, do I automatically know which icons correspond to which physical cameras, without doing a Trace?

4. How can you find "Protected" data according to chart SR5 page 241? Is this the same Protection offered by the Edit File action?

[忍]

1. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2. There isn't any physical location within the matrix. All icons are available to you. Your device just filters out the icons generated by devices over 100m away, for clarity and easy of use. (For example, most people in Seattle wouldn't need to contact the Lone Star Office in Austin. If they did they would simply "google" for it.)
3. By default, probably not. I imagine people would create an ARO to associate a digital object to a physical one.
4. That table is for Matrix Searches and the Threshold is non-applicable. I imagine this is not the same as the protection from Edit File.

[manchuwook]

I've always had problems with some of the rules. Please help.

It has some quirks, for certain.

1. Can you see devices slaved to a host while outside the host?

I'd treat it the same way as commlinks - they are hidden under the icon it is slaved to, which is the host.  Dangerous icons, such as guns, would be visible.

2. When it comes to finding icons over 100 meters away, can I simply use Matrix Perception "look" at a spot in the Matrix/real world over 100 meters away and see what icons are there? If not, do I just need some other way to know exactly what I'm looking for before I look?

Icons over 100m have a dice penalty, which implies to me that you can.  If they are hidden and over 100m, you have to do a hidden perception first with the penalty, and then do a lock-on perception as a second test.  If there is more than 1 hidden, you pick one at random unless you can narrow it down to specific in-game traits (e.g. commlink, cybernetic, camera, etc.)

3. The device icons I see within 100 meters, do they freely indicate what their real world counterpart is. Another way of asking is if I know there are 10 security cameras within 100 meters and I can physically see 5 of them, do I automatically know which icons correspond to which physical cameras, without doing a Trace?

Generally, yes, they are stylised so they fit the motif.  A music file might be a musical note, a gramophone, sheet music, or a speaker. A camera could be a floating eyeball, a reel-to-reel, or a magnifying glass. If the person has a cyberdeck, they can run the wrapper app and that will re-stylise it to something non-conforming.  I'm iffy about Trace beyond using on a persona.

4. How can you find "Protected" data according to chart SR5 page 241? Is this the same Protection offered by the Edit File action?

"Protected" data is usually in an Archive, inaccessible to the hacker.  The way it's put is "You'll need someone who can get it out of the archive for you."  Which means you just got hit with GM fiat.

[Hobbes]

1. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Point 1 is spot on.  As a GM I've always ruled that yes you can, but the RAW is puzzling especially with Persona Icons.

Point 2, don't think too hard.  If the physical device for the Icon is more than 100 meters away you need to roll.  Yes you need "Something" to know to go look for it.  Up to the GM as to what "Something" is, but the bar should be low.  "I'm looking for Commlink Icons near the 22nd and Main Tram Station."  for example.

Point 3.  Yesish.  I tend to give Players the benefit of the doubt otherwise we'd spend all day rolling Trace Icon actions.  If you're in combat passes, I'd say it's not automatic, out of combat, whatever, sure. 

Point 4.  "Protected" as in secret, as in, valuable but accessible somewhere but the GM doesn't need to create a Host for you to do a detailed data steal.  If what you're looking for is a specific file in a specific Host, you've got to get into the Host and do a datasteal.  Example, Grid Guide patterns from this Corporate Enclave to that neighborhood.  Out there, somewhere, but not an easy-peasy google search.   

[deathwishjoe]

Point 1 is spot on.  As a GM I've always ruled that yes you can, but the RAW is puzzling especially with Persona Icons.

If the device isn't running silently why wouldn't you be able to see the device even if it is slaved to a host?  doesn't it just use the hosts defensive stats?  It seems odd for the devices own icon to suddenly disappear. 

[忍]

If the device isn't running silently why wouldn't you be able to see the device even if it is slaved to a host?  doesn't it just use the hosts defensive stats?  It seems odd for the devices own icon to suddenly disappear.

The virtual space inside a host is separate from the outside grid. When you’re outside of a host, you can’t interact directly with icons inside it, although you can still send messages, make commcalls, and that sort of thing. Once you’re inside, you can see and interact with icons inside the host, but not outside (with the same caveat for messages, calls, etc.).

Maybe this?

[Jack_Spade]

Misconception: Icons in the host are usually files, and personas like IC and users. Slaving a device does nothing to merge the icon with with master. A device can't enter the host unless it has a pilot or an agent since it needs to have a MARK and must be able to use a complex action.
And even drones would be iffy in my opinion since they then couldn't receive commands anymore  unless the rigger is also inside the host. (A jumped in rigger could enter a host and vanish from the outside grid)

[Jarrod]

Thank you for pointing out the misconception I was under.

[Finstersang]

1. Yes you can. It´s one of the reasons why you might want to enter a host in the first place:

"If you are in a host that has a WAN, you are considered directly connected to all devices in the WAN." (P. 233)

"When you’re inside a host, your effective “physical distance” to drones slaved to that host becomes zero, even if you’re on the other side of the world." (P. 268)

That wouldn´t make much sense if you can´t interact with these devices once inside of the host. However, we can indeed conclude only indirectly that interaction is possible and still don´t really know how this interaction would look and feel like. Typical A+ ruleswriting here

I´d say that devices slaved to a host would have some kind of additional icon inside the host to interact with, like a control panel or something similar.

[忍]

Upon rereading the section I quoted I imagine you must be able to see icons inside a host, otherwise there would be little point stipulating your inability to "interact directly".

[Trillinon]

For #1, the intention of the RAW isn't clear, but I run it like this:

Devices slaved to a host are invisible from outside the host unless you are within wireless handshake range (100 meters) of the actual device. Similar to a device running silently. The premise being that the host takes on all responsibility for communications with the outside world, but once you're within actual wireless range of the device it can't hide its presence from you.

Diving deeper, the matrix is a mesh network, and a host is distributed throughout the mesh, so in order to communicate with the host, the device must be communicating with nearby devices at some level, and the host must be listening through one or more of those devices. Once that initial communication is received, the host can manage any further transmissions across the matrix, but the host can't obscure the device if you can receive signals directly from the device itself. The device still only responds to communications routed through the host, and thus gains its protection.

Again, this is how I run it.

[忍]

None of the devices can be accessed without first gaining access (via a mark) to the Host itself. The Host then becomes the Master for all of the devices within it, thus providing the same protection as a WAN.

There's also this. Does being in a Host automatically make something a slave? Can you be a slave to a Host and exist outside of it?

[manchuwook]

None of the devices can be accessed without first gaining access (via a mark) to the Host itself. The Host then becomes the Master for all of the devices within it, thus providing the same protection as a WAN.

There's also this. Does being in a Host automatically make something a slave? Can you be a slave to a Host and exist outside of it?

I know people hate to bring real-world analogies in, but I'd imagine the device has a VPN (Virtual Private Network) connection to the host.  The host isn't a physical thing, so you have to connect to it through a grid, but your device still has to transmit.  In theory, the connection is hidden and dictates the need for a trace in order to hack the VPN stream, but if you are needing to jump the devices stream - you'd have to go through the host proper.  I think it odd that you can run a signal jammer on the device to kill the connection, but have to follow the rules for going through a host to get to the device, even for brute force.