Author Topic: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer  (Read 350 times)

Kuirem

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
[5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« on: (12:41:15/03-14-17) »
I wanted to share this concept to get some critics and feedback. Mostly I made it with a focus on the Magic Fingers spell but I added a bunch of stuff on the way like making in aspected instead of full magician.

Story wise he isn't unlike a certain Doctor, got into an big accident that messed with his body (though he was a waiter in a fancy restaurant rather than a renowned surgeon), got into magic in an attempt to recover but didn't work as intended. Difference is, he actually wasn't that good at magic (Aspected + 5 MAG) and only got bitter in the process with also some debts to pay back.

C - Human; B - Attributes; D - Aspected Sorcerer; A - Skills; E - Resources
Nothing special here, high skill to cover the face skills and low nuyen is common amongst magicians

Attributes
BODAGIREASTRCHAINTLOGWILEDGMAG
3232644545
That's where I take the biggest risk, low AGI means low movespeed, shooting dice and sneaking but that's how it fits in the character concept. On the plus side he has good mental attributes. His magic is only 5 on purpose, to show that he isn't that good at it.

Qualities
Positive
  • Focused Concentration (Rating 5)
  • Mentor Spirit (Raven)
Focused Concentration 5 allow to sustain any of his spells at his maximum force (without going into Physical Drain) which is nice since all his spells are sustained. I think Raven fits right with the mean-spirited personnality.

Negative
  • In Debt III
  • Infirm I
  • Reduced Sense (Touch)
  • Unsteady Hands
While building the character I've seen those two negatives I never used, Reduced Touch and Unsteady Hands, and thought it would fit just fine for what I had in mind. Took Infirm as well to accentuate the accident. I admit that I took In Debt III because I really needed those 3 extra karma to buy spells.

Skills
  • Stealth Group : 4
  • Influence Group : 6
  • Pistols (Revolver) : 6
  • Unarmed Combat : 3
  • Perception (Visual) : 5
  • Con : 6
  • Impersonation : 1
  • Intimidation (Mental) : 3
  • Assensing (Aura Reading) : 3
  • Counterspelling : 5
  • Spellcasting (Manipulation) : 6
  • First Aid : 3
Lots of social skills since he is a face, maybe I should invest a bit more in Impersonation but his unsteady hands will not help there that's why I kept it low. I like the idea of combining Palming with Magic Fingers.

I took Pistols + Revolver with the idea of going for a Super Warhawk but I'm still thinking about it.


Spells
  • Control Actions
  • Levitate
  • Magic Fingers
A lot of big "must have" spells are missing, I know and it's more or less on purpose, he is NOT a good mage more of a one trick pony when it comes to spells. Magic Fingers was his main focus, Control Actions is fitting for Black Magic and Raven (Control Thoughts or Influence could work as well) and Levitate to keep a little of utility.

Contacts/Knowledge/Gear
Not really decided yet, likely some contacts/knowledge from his old life as a waiter and his training.

Tym Jalynsfein

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 208
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #1 on: (14:08:31/03-14-17) »
Like the Character, but have one observation...

You said multiple times he is "Not a Good Mage" and yet his Magic rating is almost as high as it cna possibly be, augmented by a Max Skill. Personally, I would drop the magic Rating to 3, and the Skill to a 3 or 4 with that concept. But other than that... he is interesting. I Like him...
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

Kuirem

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #2 on: (16:00:08/03-14-17) »
Maybe I should have said compared to other shadowrunner, compared to "general" Magicians? He is likely average but he expected much more. 5 MAG and 3 Spells compared to a full magician with 6-7 MAG and 10+ Spells as well as Spirits, Alchemy, Astral Projection…? He is really not that good but he does have potential.

3 MAG and 4 Skills would make Control Actions unusable and Magic Fingers would barely be better than using his hands and I still wanted him to have that one trick.

Tym Jalynsfein

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 208
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #3 on: (16:12:30/03-14-17) »
Well...

I have had many a Magician start with Magic 3-4 and a handful of spells (None of which were combat spells) and have had some pretty amazing characters come out of that...

9 Base Dice for Control Actions/Magic Fingers is not unusable, but I do understand your position. It was just something that, at least in my mind, did not fit with the description provided.
Like I said... he looks like a lot of fun.

Hope you have a great time with him.
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

ZeldaBravo

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1046
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #4 on: (16:57:30/03-14-17) »
Focused Concentration 5 is a big investment, considering the spells you have. There are none that have to be "always on", is it really worth it? There are a few qualities a Face could use.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

Kuirem

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #5 on: (02:51:18/03-15-17) »
The character rely on Magic Fingers for.. pretty much everything. Since it's sustained if I don't have a focus/focused concentration it's -2 dice for all, might as well take Focused Concentration and don't worry about that. It's with the idea that he trained really hard for that spell.

FST_Gemstar

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 772
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #6 on: (22:34:21/03-15-17) »
Dicepools across the board seem low to me... 

I find this kind of build a more common trap to aspected magicians. I think you are treating aspected magician as a role, instead of a means to fulfill a role. Aspected magicians  work best if you treat them more like adepts, they use magic to help the be better at a non-magic specialty.  (I raven con bonus, some assensing, and control action are on that track).

Is this character selling himself as a face? As a magician? Because unfortunately a full magician/face is a lot smoother to make in priority and has a lot more going for it. This character may have to work a lot harder than a more dedicated face/face hybrid.

There are some ways to dealing with sustaining magic fingers... 

Make this character an alchemist. Drop counterspelling and perhaps flip A/B priorities ( to increase agi/rea/int). Pick up an alchemy focus. You can prep a lot of magic fingers before a run. You can get solid hits with alchemy preps to do what you need. 

Like a doctor we may be comparing this character to, drug use may be an option. Psyche use works with the character, and lowers the sustaining penalty to -1. 

Get a sustaining focus in play? It frees up you chargen karma for other things and is ultimately cheaper if you are only using it for magic fingers.

Or, find a way to start with more resources. Even flipping attributes/resources, picking up an essece or two of ware and foci might work.  (Instead of focused concentration, use karms to raise some physicals, use attribute points to raise mentals. Get int/logic  to decent with boosters. Consider dareadrenimine/narco/platelet factories to deal with perhaps a Wil 3. Tailores pheremones will help with facing. You could buy a F4 sustaining focus and a manipulation focus if you want).
« Last Edit: (22:42:28/03-15-17) by FST_Gemstar »

Kuirem

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #7 on: (05:41:32/03-16-17) »
How many dices would you consider enough? He definitely sell as a Face with 12 dice for most talking and 14 for Con. He also throw 15 for Manipulation spells (and his growth will obviously focus on getting more spells). Sure he is not the Elf Face Adept with 20+ dice to talk but I feel like 12 should be enough to do the trick unless the GM decide to make you face armies of Mr. Johnson.

Quote
Because unfortunately a full magician/face is a lot smoother to make in priority and has a lot more going for it. This character may have to work a lot harder than a more dedicated face/face hybrid.

I don't see how it's a problem. I like to make min/maxed characters from time to time but sometimes a character just good enough to do the job is more interesting to play. Or do you think he won't be able to face at all?

Quote
Make this character an alchemist.

Not a bad idea if I keep the same spells. I don't like the bookeeping that come with Alchemist though, especially if Bile gets more spells in the future.

Quote
Get a sustaining focus in play? It frees up you chargen karma for other things and is ultimately cheaper if you are only using it for magic fingers.

Does it? A Spell focus 4 cost 16000 Nuyen + 8 karma, if we consider the exchange rate of 2000 Nuyen for 1 Karma it's a cost of 16 Karma, the same as Focused Concentration 4. And while a Spell Focus can't be acquired for the same cost later (if I add more spells to my list, which I will) Focused Concentration will cost twice as much.

Quote
picking up an essece or two of ware.  Consider dareadrenimine/narco/platelet factories to deal with perhaps a Wil 3. Tailores pheremones will help with facing.

Definitely worth considering, especially if I decide a past as Waiter in a fancy restaurant he has a RP reason for Tailored Pheromones.

FST_Gemstar

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 772
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #8 on: (13:33:46/03-16-17) »
I like the character, and i like seeing aspected magicians, but to me, the mechanical purpose of going aspected is to use your magicness to compliment your role. It doesn't have to always be in direct ways, but unless you do, there are a lot of opportunity costs. 

Your magic now gets you a few spells, a mentor spirit, and another way to judge intentions (assensing). Thats not bad. I eould just pose comparing the build to a similar priority/stat'ed adept. You can get the same magic perks you do now and "face" better. (You can even still magic finger adept spell and simulate some control action commanding voice.)   Or flipping d/c magic/meta to lose a point of edge, get free spells, astral projection, and have more magical opportunities.

I just am trying to avoid getting too caught in the weeds of being too much "magician" when aspected. IMO, it is usually best to stick to basics with most aspected magicians. Characters who can take advantage of having any magic rating (even/especially low Magic). For a sorcerer, that may be counterspelling (if combat/infiltration focused), assensing  (perhaps learning psychometry eventually), spellcasting or rituals with a limited specialization of spells (you got this with manips), a focus/foci (weapon for combaty characters, a spell/sustaining focus for more spellcasting characters).

 I would ask if casting f4 or f5 spells, could you get away with having a Magic of 2/3, and invest in ways to reduce drain instead (ware). Could you cobble magic dicepools higher with a mix of mentor spirit/foci/skill specs instead of Magic rating. 

I think i am just wary of the rationale of having such a high Magic aspected mage when his MR is much less important to him than it would me for a full magician or adept, and can you reprioritize or reinvest karma (away from that focused concentration and into other qualities) and still have a character you like and be mechanically tighter.

« Last Edit: (15:12:28/03-16-17) by FST_Gemstar »

Kuirem

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #9 on: (03:52:24/03-17-17) »
Tym Jalynsfein and FST_Gemstar raised some interesting points and I tried fumbling a bit around in Chummer to try to make him more a Face with just a little magic. What do you think about these change :

Priority: Metatype to E, Resources to C
Qualities: Removed Focused Concentration 5, Added First Impression
Primary Attributes: Unchanged
Special Attributes: Magic to 2 (1 purchased with Karma), Edge to 3
Skills: Unchanged
Bioware: Added Tailored Pheromones (Rating 3)
Gear: Added Sustaining Focus, Manipulation (Rating 3 4) (Bonded)
Karma Remaining: 1; Essence: 5,40; Nuyen Remaining: 46 000¥
« Last Edit: (14:24:29/03-17-17) by Kuirem »

ZeldaBravo

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1046
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #10 on: (11:01:04/03-17-17) »
Maybe add a Smartlink and a Datajack while you're at it? +2 shooting dice for a very low cost.
*I have problems with clarifying my point in English, so sometimes I might sound stupid or rude.*

Kuirem

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #11 on: (11:07:24/03-17-17) »
Yup haven't worked yet on the other gear I could add. Smartlink is tempting but I think I would rather keep him fairly cyberware-free for RP reasons (doesn't want to have invasive Cyberware since he still hope to be a real Magicians).

FST_Gemstar

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 772
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #12 on: (13:33:08/03-17-17) »
I like getting a little ware. Now you are a stronger face that can cast f4 spells, and can conceivably raise magic more if you want in play. 

I would also buy a f4 focus and wait to bind after first run. It may allow you to get more PQs while they are still face value.

Kuirem

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 607
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #13 on: (14:23:24/03-17-17) »
Oops, it's a typo, the focus is already rating 4 and binded. I guess I could unbind and use the 9 Karma for qualities. I like Linguist on Faces and it makes sense with his background. A suggestion for the remaining 5 Karma? I would have picked Sensei if only it worked with Magic, I might pick it anyway for flavor if I can't think of something else I like.

Glyph

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1601
Re: [5e] Bile, the jaded Black aspected Sorcerer
« Reply #14 on: (17:36:10/03-17-17) »
The character's primary schtick (guy with disabled hands who uses telekinetic manipulations) is already teetering with Force: 4 overcast spells and a sustaining focus.  If you get rid of that, too, you might as well get some different NQ's and make it an adept face.

On the sensei quality: if you want it for flavor, you could have your sensei be a con artist (teaching him how to hustle and swindle other people) rather than a magical mentor.