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Author Topic: Regeneration  (Read 823 times)

Tym Jalynsfein

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #15 on: (13:21:55/03-16-17) »
Regeneration is quite explicit in saying "a called shot to the head" bypasses it. That is a reference to Called Shot(Vitals), which itself mentions the brain as a possible target. There is no ambiguity there.

Called Shot(Vitals) says "the shooter is aiming for a particularly vital area of the body". The vital area is singular, and is the shooter's choice because it's where he's pointing his gun. If a shooter is going for a headshot (say because he's fighting a vampire and knows that's the only way he can kill it and survive), then it's clear what will happen: either the shooter will either hit the vampire's head or miss. It won't magically re-aim his gun at a leg artery.

You are aware, yes, that the carotid artery is in the throat (which is a valid location of the head if you are not going to get more specific, as the chart in R&G does) that DOES NOT hit the actual brain, yes? As is a lof ot facial structure. I have seen people shot with a head crosssection (through the jaw or cheekbones), or a bullet impact the skull and slideto facial structure, and not have one bit of brain trauma at all... So... Head shot does not equal Brain Shot.

Just wanted to point that out.

I would use the more specific taregeting in R&G, personally.
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Slipperychicken

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #16 on: (18:15:11/03-16-17) »
I would use the more specific taregeting in R&G, personally.
I would go with that, if those rules included hit locations for "brain" or "head". But they omit most of the areas mentioned in Called Shot(Vitals) (Brain, heart, major arteries), so I don't think they're intended to supersede the rules for Called Shot(Vitals).

The carotid artery is mentioned under the "neck" shot in R&G. I'm not a biologist, so I'm not quite sure how you interpret Called Shot(Neck) to be a headshot.


If we need to split hairs between headshots and brain-shots, sure. The called shot says you can specify the brain. I have been calling it a headshot for the sake of simplicity and ease-of-understanding. Should we call it Called Shot(Brain or Spine) when we mean to have it bypass regeneration? Perhaps Called Shot(Central Nervous System)?

Tym Jalynsfein

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #17 on: (14:10:06/03-17-17) »
I would use the more specific taregeting in R&G, personally.
I would go with that, if those rules included hit locations for "brain" or "head". But they omit most of the areas mentioned in Called Shot(Vitals) (Brain, heart, major arteries), so I don't think they're intended to supersede the rules for Called Shot(Vitals).

The carotid artery is mentioned under the "neck" shot in R&G. I'm not a biologist, so I'm not quite sure how you interpret Called Shot(Neck) to be a headshot.


If we need to split hairs between headshots and brain-shots, sure. The called shot says you can specify the brain. I have been calling it a headshot for the sake of simplicity and ease-of-understanding. Should we call it Called Shot(Brain or Spine) when we mean to have it bypass regeneration? Perhaps Called Shot(Central Nervous System)?
If you are using a -4 for the Head SHot from Main Book, then hitting the neck is valid, as there is not a more specific targeting for such in Main book (Pretty sure Throat is just as Vital as Heart, Brain, etc)...

Pretty sure it would be easy to use the chart in R&G to generate appropriate modifiers... I think that -4 is not enough for what it is doing... Head Shot (-4) and Brain Shot (-4) are not equal in my book.
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adzling

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #18 on: (19:08:52/03-17-17) »
I would beg to differ as the rules SPECIFICALLY say a called shot to the head is enough.
See actual printed text below.

"Regeneration canít heal everything. Damage to the brain or spinal cord (for example, a called shot to the head) canít be healed this way."

Moreover you'll note its EITHER brain OR spinal cord.
So it's not as precise as shooting your brain, neck shot could work fine considering that's where your spinal cord runs.

But the 100% inarguable statement is "for example, a called shot to the head".

As ever you are free to houserule whatever you like, it's just not RAW nor RAI.

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Kiirnodel

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #19 on: (21:14:37/03-17-17) »
There is no Called Shot: Head

Reaver

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #20 on: (01:06:04/03-18-17) »
Core rule book: Page 178

Quote
Called Shot
Sometimes we want our shots to count a little bit extra.
Any time a character wants to make a Called Shots
(p. 195)
apply this modifier. Called Shots also require
a Free Action to perform along with their basic attack
action (p. 163).

Page 196
Quote
Vitals: Standard ranged attacks are assumed to be
aiming center mass (human torso, car engine, etc.) to
allow for maximum chance to hit while also focusing
on vital areas for damage. Calling a shot to increase
damage means the shooter is aiming for a particularly
vital area of the body, such as the brain, heart, or major
arteries
. These areas, when struck, tend to cause more
serious wounds but they are smaller areas and harder to
hit. Targeting a vital spot with a called shot gives you an
extra +2 DV on the attack

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adzling

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #21 on: (11:14:13/03-18-17) »
As Reaver (and others, including myself in other threads) has pointed out Called Shot: Vitals is the one you want to use.
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Patrick Goodman

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #22 on: (11:23:05/03-18-17) »
I didn't have Run &Gun when I wrote the Regeneration power. Those referring to Called Shot (Vitals) have it absolutely correct; the intent was for that to allow you to bypass Regeneration at the expense of the +2 to damage. Signals got crossed and the wording wasn't tightened up. My fault.

I'm getting that dealt with​in errata. Not sure when it'll see the light of day, because we're behind, but it's being addressed.
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Kiirnodel

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #23 on: (18:39:25/03-18-17) »
I didn't have Run &Gun when I wrote the Regeneration power. Those referring to Called Shot (Vitals) have it absolutely correct; the intent was for that to allow you to bypass Regeneration at the expense of the +2 to damage. Signals got crossed and the wording wasn't tightened up. My fault.

So, to clarify, the original intent was for Called Shot (Vitals) to give +2 damage OR bypass regeneration. right?

Thanks Patrick, this is totally how I'll run this at my table from now on (even if it doesn't make it into the errata any time soon). That's basically what I suggested earlier.

[A] way to do it is to work it like a normal Called Shot from the Core Rules, -4 penalty for the bonus of bypassing regeneration. I would probably allow it to be used with Called Shot (vitals) to still get the +2 damage, but that would be for the full -8 penalty.

Slipperychicken

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #24 on: (00:55:53/03-19-17) »
I didn't have Run &Gun when I wrote the Regeneration power. Those referring to Called Shot (Vitals) have it absolutely correct; the intent was for that to allow you to bypass Regeneration at the expense of the +2 to damage. Signals got crossed and the wording wasn't tightened up. My fault.

I'm getting that dealt with​in errata. Not sure when it'll see the light of day, because we're behind, but it's being addressed.

Thank you for the clarification. It means a lot to me when one of the writers can come out and say what the intent was. I look forward to seeing this in an errata someday.

Pap Renvela

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #25 on: (01:27:40/03-19-17) »
So the intent is that shooting the brain to bypass regeneration is -4 but shooting the gut is -6.
Not to mention all the other areas that are -8 or -10.
Yeah, seems equitable.

Kiirnodel

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #26 on: (03:33:43/03-19-17) »
So the intent is that shooting the brain to bypass regeneration is -4 but shooting the gut is -6.
Not to mention all the other areas that are -8 or -10.
Yeah, seems equitable.

Setting aside what I assume is sarcasm (because yes, that statement can be read in a positive tone to mean that you are completely happy with the stated intent). As far as equal penalties for equal results goes, the specific location called shots give a lot more options to the shooter for results. Each of those shots give 2-3 choices for effects, and all of them are pretty significant effects.

Jack_Spade

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #27 on: (13:01:57/03-19-17) »
To be honest, the called shots in R&G are universally pretty crap. Even at half the penalty I'd avoid using them.
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Pap Renvela

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #28 on: (18:17:47/03-19-17) »
To be honest, the called shots in R&G are universally pretty crap. Even at half the penalty I'd avoid using them.

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Re: Regeneration
« Reply #29 on: (23:38:32/03-19-17) »
Opinions aside it seems Called Shot: Vitals allows either +2DV or damage that can't be regenerated.
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