2 Register

Author Topic: Regeneration  (Read 706 times)

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 471
Regeneration
« on: (18:10:42/03-12-17) »
If a character with Regen takes damage from magic then later takes nonmagical damage, can the Regen check heal all of it or just the nonmagical damage?
Yeah, TMs got thrown in the cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube.
there is autosofts for everything  8)

Kiirnodel

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Omae
  • *
  • Posts: 879
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #1 on: (22:36:57/03-12-17) »
Just the nonmagical damage. Taking a wound from another source does not suddenly allow previously un-regeneratable wounds to be able to be regenerated.

If you are frequently running into issues where you need to keep track of which damage can be healed by different means, I suggest using different marks on your damage track based on what sort of damage it is. For instance, using a single slash ( / ) vs an x ( X ).

So, for example, a character with regeneration takes magical damage (can't be regenerated), and marks the damage with X's to indicate that it can't be regenerated. Then later, takes a bullet wound, and marks that with just single slashes to indicate it can be regenerated. At the end of the combat turn, after the regeneration test is made, the character can only heal up the boxes without X's.


You don't so much need to mark the individual wounds, just keep track of how much damage is from which sources, so I recommend keeping all of the damage marks such that the 'non-healable' damage is always marked as the first damage on the track. Don't change the total damage, just make sure you keep track of it in an organized manner. So, if you take 3 from a bullet, 2 from magic, then 3 from a bullet, you would have a total of 8 boxes marked, the first two would be X's and the rest slashes.

So, in the more likely scenario, with Magicians that regularly take drain (which can't be healed except through natural rest), you would see this for marking the drain damage.

Quote from: Example:
Magician, already has 1 damage taken from drain.
( X )(   )(   )
(   )(   )(   )
(   )(   )(   )
(   )(   )
 takes a bullet for 3 damage, and marks these boxes with a slash,
( X )(  / )(  / )
(  / )(    )(    )
(    )(    )(    )
(    )(    )
then casts a spell and takes 2 more damage from the drain. The magician would mark two more boxes as damaged, and make sure the two more boxes are marked with an "X" at the start of the damage track.
( X )( X )( X )
(  / )(  / )(  / )
(    )(    )(    )
(    )(    )

Finally, you can also do this to indicate that you've already attempted healing. After first aid and the Heal spell has been applied, mark all the boxes remaining with the hard X to indicate nothing else can be healed except from rest.
« Last Edit: (22:38:48/03-12-17) by Kiirnodel »

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 471
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #2 on: (23:30:19/03-12-17) »
Mucho gracias :)
Yeah, TMs got thrown in the cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube.
there is autosofts for everything  8)

Senko

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2274
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #3 on: (17:03:15/03-13-17) »
Makes sense to me as interesting as the idea of healing a magical burn by hacking the charred flesh out and letting your natural healing take over is it'd get mechanically unwieldy/broken.

Slipperychicken

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 122
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #4 on: (10:00:26/03-14-17) »
Just a reminder to anyone reading this that nonmagical damage to the head and spine also bypasses regeneration.

So next time you fight a vampire, before you lament having forgotten your holy water and wooden stakes, just remember to take a -4 for Called Shot (Vitals) and specify you're going for headshots.

Ghost Rigger

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 147
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #5 on: (10:19:40/03-14-17) »
Eh, I think I'll just stick to my conventional strategy of Hi-Ex grenades and large caliber APDS at full auto. They can't regenerate if they're just a big crimson stain on the floor and wall.....and ceiling.

FancyDerek

  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 47
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #6 on: (20:47:26/03-15-17) »
Just a reminder to anyone reading this that nonmagical damage to the head and spine also bypasses regeneration.

So next time you fight a vampire, before you lament having forgotten your holy water and wooden stakes, just remember to take a -4 for Called Shot (Vitals) and specify you're going for headshots.

Headshot is a -10...
just saying.

Novocrane

  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2199
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #7 on: (21:00:50/03-15-17) »
What he's going for is the fact that Called Shot: Vitals says 'brain', and regeneration says 'brain'.

I'm a little leery of anyone that suggests a +2 to damage should also allow you to bypass regen entirely.

Slipperychicken

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 122
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #8 on: (23:27:49/03-15-17) »
Headshot is a -10...
just saying.

The rule I'm looking at is Called Shot(Vitals)in 5e core. It's a -4 like all the other called shots in the 5e core book.

What he's going for is the fact that Called Shot: Vitals says 'brain', and regeneration says 'brain'.

I'm a little leery of anyone that suggests a +2 to damage should also allow you to bypass regen entirely.

I feel like that was exactly the intention. So that muggles can still have some means of protecting themselves. It specifically mentions "for example, a called shot to the head" in the text of the Regeneration power as an example that bypasses it.

Quote from: Core page 400
Regeneration canít heal everything. Damage to the brain or spinal cord (for example, a called shot to the head) canít be healed this way
Quote from: Core page 196
Calling a shot to increase damage means the shooter is aiming for a particularly vital area of the body, such as the brain, heart, or major arteries.
« Last Edit: (23:35:04/03-15-17) by Slipperychicken »

Kiirnodel

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Omae
  • *
  • Posts: 879
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #9 on: (00:44:27/03-16-17) »
This topic has been discussed a few times before, most recently that I can remember during a conversation about Shapeshifters, HERE

There seems to be two major stances on this:

1) Since Called Shot (vitals) mentions the brain as one of the locations that is a potential target, you can use Called Shot (Vitals) to aim for the brain and therefore bypass Regeneration.

2) The purpose of Called Shot (Vitals) is to increase damage by +2, not to bypass Regeneration. Being able to overwhelm Regeneration at the "cost" of a +2 damage Called Shot doesn't seem to be balanced.


Both arguments have valid points, but I tend to agree with the standpoint that +2 damage and bypassing regeneration with the same Called Shot is a little odd, possibly even unbalanced. The only thing I think I can add (to what I've already said in the previous discussions) is that the way hits/damage is tracked is all abstracted. Shadowrun doesn't actually use hit locations (for the most part), so my observation is that the Called Shot: Vitals works the same way. It is meant to be "you're aiming for a more vulnerable area, so you get +2 damage" not, pick a location from this list, that's what you're hitting. To me, it begs the question, why could you specify Called Shot: Vitals (head) and get that extra effect, but don't get anything extra for a Called Shot: Vitals (heart)? The answer (in my head) is that you don't get to specify that your Vitals Called Shot is to the head, it doesn't guarantee that headshot-ness.

My quick-and-dirty solution is to simply allow Called Shot (head) as its own Called Shot (I mention one possibility in that Shapeshifters thread). Another way to do it is to work it like a normal Called Shot from the Core Rules, -4 penalty for the bonus of bypassing regeneration. I would probably allow it to be used with Called Shot (vitals) to still get the +2 damage, but that would be for the full -8 penalty.

Pap Renvela

  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 399
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #10 on: (02:43:04/03-16-17) »
There really isn't a RAW answer... and like many things, there's no official clarification.

I'm with the -10 since eye/ears/genitals is -10 in R&G.

Without the almighty stepping down and writing it in stone, its a table preference thing I guess.

Jack_Spade

  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5569
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #11 on: (06:31:28/03-16-17) »
Wrong,
RAW is that a Vitals Shot is a shot to the brain or heart, RAW is that a shot to the Brain or Spine won't be regenerated
Everything else is (a maybe justified) house rule.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Kiirnodel

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Omae
  • *
  • Posts: 879
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #12 on: (06:47:08/03-16-17) »
Sure, RAW is that a Called Shot to the Vitals is a hit to somewhere like the brain, heart, or a major artery. Where it hits precisely isn't up to the player, but the GM. Unlike the Called Shots to specific locations introduced in Run & Gun, other attacks are abstracted and don't hit specific locations.

So nothing (in the rules) keeps a GM from making all those Called Shot: Vitals attacks keep hitting the target in the carotid or femoral arteries. Yep, causes massive damage from the blood-loss. The Called Shot: Vitals doesn't guarantee a hit that stops regeneration.

Jack_Spade

  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5569
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #13 on: (06:54:39/03-16-17) »
I have a problem with that explanation because it presumes
a) Hitting a vital area is somehow random yet your are going to greater effort to aim not at center mass but at a specific spot on the body. Both from a narrative as well as a simulationist point of view that is mutually exclusive
b) your GM is a dick thinking it's ok to take away an already more difficult mundane option while magic types need no effort whatsoever to stop regeneration.

talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Slipperychicken

  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 122
Re: Regeneration
« Reply #14 on: (07:16:35/03-16-17) »
Regeneration is quite explicit in saying "a called shot to the head" bypasses it. That is a reference to Called Shot(Vitals), which itself mentions the brain as a possible target. There is no ambiguity there.

Called Shot(Vitals) says "the shooter is aiming for a particularly vital area of the body". The vital area is singular, and is the shooter's choice because it's where he's pointing his gun. If a shooter is going for a headshot (say because he's fighting a vampire and knows that's the only way he can kill it and survive), then it's clear what will happen: either the shooter will either hit the vampire's head or miss. It won't magically re-aim his gun at a leg artery.
« Last Edit: (07:25:23/03-16-17) by Slipperychicken »

 

Register