[Pap Renvela]

Assumming a runner team of 3 total, how would you guys double up on the necessary roles.
I'm thinking elf face/mage, combat decker and hybrid adept/samurai.
What would you guys do?

[Pap Renvela]

Assuming I can spell assuming of course.

[Hobbes]

"Decker" and "Mage" are really the only roles that are baked in to the char gen.  Social, driving, non-hacking technical skills can all be picked up by any character to some degree. 

And don't forget Elves can pretty much tack "Face" on to any Archetype if you're willing to give somewhere else in the build.

A Human Edge Lord / Juicer build can also cover a huge array of Combat, Social, B&E, and Technical skills. 

Mystic Adepts can pretty well do anything better than anyone else.  Except Astral Project.  :  )

A Physical Adept with Astral Perception can fill in for "Mage" if you don't care about the loss of Spells/Spirits.

If you've got one player who really wants to play X, if the other two are flexible they can likely pick up whatever perceived team roles are deemed necessary. 

Heck, roll with a theme team of all Elf Physical Adepts (one Decker Adept, one Social Adept, one Shooty Adept, spread out Adept Spell, Astral Perception/Magic Sense...)  Charlie's Faeries even.

Shadowrun is pretty flexible as a classless system should be.

[Jack_Spade]

As long as the three "worlds" matrix mundane and magic are covered there is no problem.

In fact, I've seen a ghoul decker do all three as a one man team.

Human Decker, Elf Shaman and Ork Streetsam are a staple for a reason

[Beta]

I'd want to talk with the GM and players involved to have some agreement on the type of game, and try to really build synergies into the team.  As in, are they very good at stealthy intrusions, are they more about the sudden, shocking, violence and quick get-away, are they scam artists, etc.  I mean, you can build a team with three very different strengths and that is OK, but I think you actually do better by building team strength.

For example, if you have a mage/face with a silver-tongue, having a decker with a good forgery skill who could make the credentials that make those Con games more convincing helps build team strength.  Or f you are going to focus on Mission Impossible style break-ins, there are some fairly key knowledge skills and contacts that can be spread around the group.

And then look at things like someone affording a decent vehicle that you can all travel in, look at a team lifestyle (with one of you having a decent lifestyle to key off of).  It helps a lot when not every character feels they have to be fully independent on their own

[Pap Renvela]

@Hobbes

I've got an ARRP card and so must have lost a few brain cells.
For the life of me I can't recall 'Juicer' as an archetype.
What exactly is that type of build?

[Hobbes]

Juicer = lots of Drugs. 

"Juicer" in an RPG was first used in "Rifts" as far as I know.  It was a Class that did supernatural stuff because "Drugs".

I also am old, so have a lot of useless trivia rattling around that occasionally gets out when I can't keep my games straight.

[Pap Renvela]

When you posted 'juicer' I immediately thought of A-Rod but was thinking what do steroids have to do with SR?
Duh.... not such a huge leap that i shouldn't have got it.

Never played Rifts BTW.... the concept was interesting but my friends didn't show interest beyond TSR RPGs at the tie.

[Reaver]

Juicer = lots of Drugs. 

"Juicer" in an RPG was first used in "Rifts" as far as I know.  It was a Class that did supernatural stuff because "Drugs".

I also am old, so have a lot of useless trivia rattling around that occasionally gets out when I can't keep my games straight.

Ah Rifts.........

Good concept, good ideas, fell prey to book-power-creep

[Hobbes]

Ah Rifts.........

Good concept, good ideas, fell prey to book-power-creep

Rifts was pretty much the poster child for Sourcebook Escalation.  One of the reasons Juicer was a good class though.  Take one of the "Humans but with better stats" races, tack on "Juicer" and just upgrade to the next best gun/armor as available.

May have wandered a bit off topic....      

[Rooks]

Long as you have magic and matrix support, your golden, alternatively there can be a gentlemens understanding that there would be runs where one of the aspects of shadowrun wont be used, had teams that didnt have a decker, mostly in the 3rd edition era, cause it bogged down the game WAY too much as everyone else was sitting around as the decker rolled dice to see if they were able to do the run at all or trip the alarm before the run even got started. Had teams that didnt have a mage. But the GM knew that so didnt throw a file inside of a data store the team couldnt get to or throw a bunch of mages and spirits at us. Also grenades so op, so ya if you dont lob grenades at the enemies the gm wont throw them back at you.

But idealy, one mage one techie one whichever which could consist of the following

elf shaman/technomancer face high char so why not
Dwarf Decker Rigger Mage Logic Willpower
Troll Street Sam Damage Dealer bullet sponge gun bunny battle strategist

[ZeldaBravo]

Honestly, you better talk to your GM. and group about Matrix. Unless someone is adamant about playing a decker, you'll be better off with an NPC and some handwaving.

In my experience, the less Matrix you have, the more actual gaming you get. YMMV.

[Slipperychicken]

Honestly, you better talk to your GM. and group about Matrix. Unless someone is adamant about playing a decker, you'll be better off with an NPC and some handwaving.

In my experience, the less Matrix you have, the more actual gaming you get. YMMV.

I just started playing a decker and I couldn't agree more. The GM has to pretty much take 10 minutes to adjudicate matrix stuff before anyone else can do anything. And he's pretty handwavey about the matrix too. I'm sure it would take a lot longer if we were trying to play RAW.

If I ever run this abomination of a game myself, I'm banning hackers right off the bat and giving people easy ways to bypass matrix threats. I dunno maybe give them a hacker contact, and let them purchase "hack points" during legwork/planning stages to let them bypass matrix stuff. So they might buy 3 hack-points from the hacker, allowing them to bypass a door and two sensors. Or [host rating / 2] hack-points for building blueprints. Or one hack-point for a single use flash-drive that automatically collects the target paydata off a physical computer (more hack-points make it happen faster). Or they could pay for [host rating] hack-points to give them credentials to access the building legitimately. Things like that.

[Hobbes]

It's totally player dependent.  If you approach a hacking task with a fixed objective in your mind it's, See the Thing, Hack the Thing, if host Search for the Thing, then Do the Thing.  If you don't have an objective and ask the GM open ended questions and just do random things, it's like any complex encounter and can take hours.  Same thing can happen if the GM indulges the Face character or a Rigger character. 

If you're hacking a Commlink to get the next plot point the GM shouldn't even bother with dice, a typical hacker will have triple to Quadruple the dice pool of an unattended device.  It's like making the characters roll to read a note. 

About the only time I ask for rolls is for Matrix legwork, and hosts.  If its a really high rated device, or we're in combat passes or some other high pressure situation, sure.  Hacking the lock on the back door of a warehouse?   Done.  Unless the device is slaved to a PAN or a Host, its got 4 Dice. 

If the Decker is rolling a bunch of dice and asking questions, the GM should start going around the table and asking "Okay, while the Decker is checking out stuff, what do you do?"  That way if folks want to move things along they can.  Put it in the hands of the Players.

[Myriad]

I like the team magic idea posted... could see them as an adept / magician pairing to get rid of the astral evidence too.

That said.. Pap seems to know what things are done, so assuming you have to deal with ALL THREATS, then it becomes a bit different.

+Shaman (cha cast) / Face - Covers astral overwatch
+Tank-o-mancer (4 limbed, cyber singularity drug user, 7 edge) - Slots BTL bodyguard as needed, protects your other man in.  Has easy access to pain editor after one mission by FFFF submersion (caps at res 2 or 3, and just boosts others by sprites and teamwork) and gets mostly meat space skills besides the two compile/register for machine sprites.  Goes 1 pt deep for skills not covered by the other two.  May or may not have an extremely high software for the resonance tricks.
+Any matrix support with a B&E focus.

Obviously, the middle one is a personal preference, just plays like a gimp edgomancer for a bit, but gives you access to resonance shenanigans for the campaign which is the main thing without making your meat side anemic.