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Author Topic: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?  (Read 1089 times)

Rooks

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #15 on: (07:26:15/03-15-17) »
also used/omega grade isnt just pay the used status theres a characteristic that goes along with it

I'm no where near a book at the moment. Would you be able to give me the page that info n is on?
Chrome Flesh 71
What most of us are used
to is standard-grade cyberware—simple, off-the-shelf
upgrades that are mass-produced and mass-marketed.
When many of us started out, there was also “used,” or
to use modern terminology, “omega-class” cyberware.
(Why omega? Because it’s the end of the line.) The
terminology change isn’t just marketingspeak, though
that’s a big slice of it. Instead, omega cyberware is often
first-generation, just cheaply made and a knockoff
of more popular ’ware.

As an optional rule, a gamemaster may allow a player to take
some kind of drawback from their used cyberware instead of
1.2 times the normal Essence cost. While there are no hard and
fast rules for this, the greater the savings in Essence, the worse
the flaw should be. Examples might include a smartgun link that
won’t fire at people flagged as Ares employees; a cyberleg with
a bad knee, lowering the character’s run speed multiplier by
one; or wired reflexes without an off switch, resulting in a life
where they strike out against perceived threats in everyday life
with possibly tragic consequences. As always, the gamemaster
has final say.

Tym Jalynsfein

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #16 on: (16:32:47/03-15-17) »
There is only an attendent drawback if the Optional Rule is used. Optional rule does not equate to a mandatory drawback, as you seem to be suggesting. :)
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FancyDerek

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #17 on: (20:25:39/03-15-17) »
There is only an attendent drawback if the Optional Rule is used. Optional rule does not equate to a mandatory drawback, as you seem to be suggesting. :)


Ummm....
The optional rule is the rule for Omega grade.
Hence, if you use Omega grade, there is a mandatory drawback.

People try to get cute by saying they'll take 1.25 essence cost as the drawback so they can get essentially  'used' cultured bioware.
But clearly that's not the intention.
Really, hitting people over the head with a hard cover copy of the CRB ought to be a thing.
Just kidding on the last part- well, mostly.

Novocrane

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #18 on: (21:58:02/03-15-17) »
I don't consider it cute at all. The book tells you that used falls under the umbrella of omega, as has already been quoted.
Quote
When many of us started out, there was also “used,” or to use modern terminology, “omega-class” cyberware.
What's left is for some people to catch up to the new edition.

Pap Renvela

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #19 on: (00:44:55/03-16-17) »
I don't consider it cute at all. The book tells you that used falls under the umbrella of omega, as has already been quoted.
Quote
When many of us started out, there was also “used,” or to use modern terminology, “omega-class” cyberware.
What's left is for some people to catch up to the new edition.

 a gamemaster may allow a player to take
some kind of drawback from their used cyberware instead of
1.2 times the normal Essence cost. While there are no hard and
fast rules for this, the greater the savings in Essence,
the worse
the flaw should be. Examples might include a smartgun link that
won’t fire at people flagged as Ares employees; a cyberleg with
a bad knee, lowering the character’s run speed multiplier by
one; or wired reflexes without an off switch, resulting in a life
where they strike out against perceived threats in everyday life
with possibly tragic consequences. As always, the gamemaster
has final say.

note the "instead of the essence penalty."
I say cute because you want to insert the essence penalty instead of the essence penalty to get around the dissonance of 'used' cultured bioware.

If your GM is good with it: good for you.
It's no way in the spirit of the rule IMHO.
But each table plays its own game.
And that's how it should be.
Unless it's Missions- in which case every table should be the same in theory.

Kiirnodel

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #20 on: (01:18:32/03-16-17) »
Quote
a gamemaster may allow a player to take some kind of drawback from their used cyberware instead of 1.2 times the normal Essence cost.

So, first up, Omega-grade is an optional rule that effectively modifies the used grade 'ware. The text pretty explicitly states that it allows a character to take some sort of drawback in place of the increased essence cost of used-quality cyberware.

If you go by the letter of the rule, Omega-grade doesn't even apply to any bioware. A less strict reading is that it can only be applied to used 'ware. So if a game follows the idea that used culture bioware isn't a thing, then your out of luck.

Now, there are some people who think that the Omega-grade is an idea to replace used quality 'ware (in general), which is where the idea of being able to apply it to cultured bioware comes from. And that then expanded to the idea that you could "reapply" the essence cost as the drawback.

Rooks

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #21 on: (12:05:32/03-16-17) »
Cyberware and bioware implants are available in five distinct
grades: standard, alphaware, betaware, deltaware,
and used... When purchasing implants of other
grades, apply the Essence Cost, Cost, and Availability adjustments
as noted on the Implant Grades table.

Bioware is subtler, more holistic, and less invasive than
cyberware, at the cost of being substantially pricier. Instead
of replacing body parts with machines, bioware
augments the body’s own functions and integrates transplanted
organs that function as natural features. The
application of biotechnology is a tricky business, as the
fine balance of homeostasis between the body’s organic
systems must be maintained.

Cultured bioware must be tailor-made for the body in
which it will eventually find a home.
This means it is
more expensive and takes longer to acquire than the
off-the-shelf kind.

As an optional rule, a gamemaster may allow a player to take
some kind of drawback from their used cyberware instead of
1.2 times the normal Essence cost. While there are no hard and
fast rules for this, the greater the savings in Essence, the worse
the flaw should be. Examples might include a smartgun link that
won’t fire at people flagged as Ares employees; a cyberleg with
a bad knee, lowering the character’s run speed multiplier by
one; or wired reflexes without an off switch, resulting in a life
where they strike out against perceived threats in everyday life
with possibly tragic consequences. As always, the gamemaster
has final say.
« Last Edit: (12:26:19/03-16-17) by Rooks »

Novocrane

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #22 on: (05:45:51/03-17-17) »
I missed Omega grade rules being cyberware specific. It took a while before anyone else said anything to that effect, too.

Quote
there are some people who think that the Omega-grade is an idea to replace used quality 'ware
To be fair, while the rule itself doesn't say as much, the setting info does, as quoted.
In creating a rule for Omega grade, the need to reflect that was apparently overlooked or considered unnecessary. So now we have the setting saying they're the same, while the rules stand apart and confuse readers into thinking they're two distinct grades.

FancyDerek

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #23 on: (19:26:14/03-17-17) »
My group doesn't use omega at all as we pretty much leave out anything optional.
But I too missed that a RAW reading makes it cyberware specific.

Kiirnodel

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #24 on: (21:20:34/03-17-17) »
I think Omega (and Gamma) grade 'ware is cyber specific for 2 reasons.

For Omega, it is because "how do you have glitchy bioware?" malfunctioning bioware just doesn't really work. While cyberware can, because it is machinery.

For Gamma, it is cyber-specific because technology is advancing more and more, but the bioware is a step behind. Previously, delta-grade 'ware was considered rare or even "unheard of" and then bioware starting coming around too. So, even though delta-grade is more common now, that fore-front of tech is pushing forward (hence, the rumors of an even better grade of 'ware), but the bioware hasn't gotten to that stage yet.

Novocrane

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #25 on: (03:53:09/03-18-17) »
Quote
For Omega, it is because "how do you have glitchy bioware?"
Third edition Man & Machine had extensive rules for bioware "overstress" levels; light/moderate/serious/deadly. A significant percentage of fifth edition bioware augmentations are also in M&M, so if you're looking to educate yourself on what glitchy bioware (would) look like, it's well worth the read.

ie;
Quote
Nephritic Screen
Light: The nephritic screen begins to filter out needed nutrients as well as toxins. Users must take additional supplements.
Moderate: The filter becomes overloaded, and the (toxin) power reduction no longer applies.
Serious: Occasionally, the nephritic screen accumulates a threatening mass of non-filtered toxic particles, which slowly leak into the user's system. In addition to the numerous unpleasant side effects, such as blisters, rashes, and other ailments, the character is inflicted with a Light physical wound until the screen is cleaned. Cleaning requires therapeutic surgery.
Deadly: The screen stops filtering, and the user toxicity causes a urinary tract infection. The character suffers from a Serious physical wound until the screen is repaired.

Bioware can have problems, and presumably come with impairments, too.
« Last Edit: (03:59:24/03-18-17) by Novocrane »

Rooks

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #26 on: (03:30:58/03-19-17) »
I suppose, smells discoloring twitching tremors tumors epiliptic episodes stress inducted vomitting puss discharge etc

Adamo1618

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #27 on: (07:48:40/03-20-17) »
@Novocrane
The lack of such rules in 5th suggests that bioware has come a long way since.
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Novocrane

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #28 on: (08:27:18/03-20-17) »
YMV; I'd say it shows that mechanics have been simplified. Possibly that no writer has pushed it forwards as part of an agenda. I don't believe it reflects the setting to say people selling bioware to SINless in a dystopia are always providing a perfect product.

Ghost Rigger

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Re: Is A used Suprathyroid worth it?
« Reply #29 on: (10:50:59/03-20-17) »
They'd better be given how much we're paying for it.

But realtalk, though, there are different stripes of SINless. I could see a streetdoc selling some SINless gangers some wonky bioware, but when a feared and respected streetsam walks into a beta clinic with over a million nuyen on his credstick, that's an entirely different scenario. Do runners still get ripped off on their 'wares from time to time? Yes. But I think enough streetsams have gone on revenge-fueled rampages and enough shifty streetdocs have had their kneecaps broken by now that when they do get ripped off it's something harder to detect than "your new superkidney is faulty and is actually killing you".