[firebug]

If FAB III is that strong, it would basically cause mana voids anywhere it was, and the absolute-value background count of the CZ should still be higher, just because of a lower negative than -2, if FAB III can basically erase a fucking mana storm.

And "because magic" is why it should be more than 2 as well!

Basically, one of the two things is completely wrong.  Either the CZ isn't a 2, or the rules listed are ridiculous.  I'd rather the CZ be only 2, as that is more playable than the horrific mana-storm it should be, but the point is that what's written for it strongly contradicts the only rules we have for 5th edition.

I'm just bitching about 5th edition I guess.  Goddamnit I love this game, but Catalyst seems like they don't care.  I really feel bad for all the freelancers who put in time and effort to write for this edition.

[MijRai]

I'll point out that Chicago as a whole is rather large, and the atrocities only took place in limited subsections.  There's sections (like the Cermak Blast) where the Background Count is notably high.  Others less so.  Auschwitz was not only worse in overall amount of misery, it was focused on a much smaller area. 

[Ghost Rigger]

There's a concentration camp joke to be made here. I'm not going to make it, I'm just pointing out it's there.

[firebug]

Well, I don't want to get into an argument about the specifics of Auschwitz, but I'm sure there was a huge amount of misery in the CZ, along with even more fear, for all the people who were basically condemned to fend off against bug spirits by themselves, and the crazed gangs, and the feral ghouls...  Yeah, I'm going to say "there was more than enough negativity."

The Cermak Blast zone is basically just "mysteriously still irradiated" and so the radiation is listed as the cause of the background count.  They don't seem to acknowledge background count potentially caused by just the pure horror that went down there for years.

[Hobbes]

Missions puts the CZ at 1 these days in general (Season 7+).  The Shattergraves is 6.  The actual blast crater is a Mana Void IIRC, I'd have to re-check.  The Background Count (and Radiation) falls off from the crater more quickly than it should for reasons not known.  I want to say it's Mission 5-4? that sends the PCs into the Crater and so you get some crunch on it.

But yes, the rules we have for Background count (and Noise for that matter) don't at all jive with what we actually see in setting rules.  And honestly the BGC and Noise general rules are borderline unplayable.  Go to a Concert or a Pro-Sports game of any sort and Magic and Matrix basically stop working.  WTH?

[Adamo1618]

There's a concentration camp joke to be made here. I'm not going to make it, I'm just point out it's there.

Good judgement

[PMárk]

Since the thread went into discussing Background Count, may I ask the congregation two more things?

1. How BC affects spirits and summoning? I understand the effect on the summoning dice pool and the penalties on every roll the spirit makes. Does it  decrease the spirit's Force either when summoned or when entering a BC area while already summoned? Spirits, if I get it right, aren't sustained spells, or foci and BC affects only those in this way, no?

2. Is there any, non-ritual way for a mage to provide a buffer, for example for her adept pal against BC? If I understood correctly, Cleansing is self-only. 

[Kiirnodel]

Since the thread went into discussing Background Count, may I ask the congregation two more things?

1. How BC affects spirits and summoning? I understand the effect on the summoning dice pool and the penalties on every roll the spirit makes. Does it  decrease the spirit's Force either when summoned or when entering a BC area while already summoned? Spirits, if I understand correctly, aren't sustained spells, or foci and BC affects only those in this way, no?

2. Is there any, non-ritual way for a mage to provide a buffer, for example for her adept pal against BC? If I understand correctly, Cleansing is self-only. 

Probably would have been better to start a new thread, since as you pointed out, this is pretty unrelated to the original topic. But I can answer both parts of this.

1: It only affects the summoning dice pool and all the rolls a spirit makes while in the Background. You are correct, a Spirit is none of those things and is therefore not reduced in Force also. That would be a pretty bad double-whammy.

2: You are correct, Cleansing is self-only. There isn't a way to "buffer" someone else from background. However, adepts can use certain techniques to avoid the penalties of background on their own. For example, Adept Centering to negate penalties on physical actions (up to Initiate Grade, Free Action for each action); but a better one is Heightened Concern (Shadow Spells), which allows the adept to ignore one penalty up to half their Magic in magnitude. It takes a Complex Action to "trigger" but remains in place as long as the condition doesn't change. So a Magic 6 adept could "ignore" the penalty from a BC up to 3. Some GM rulings may vary.

[PMárk]

Thanks, it helped a lot to know I didn't misinterpret the stuff! We're in the process of changing to 5e with the group and since I had the most free time to read the books, I'll be the rulesclopedia for a time, despite I'm not the GM. I just want to be sure I'll convey it rightly.

One more question and it incidentally goes back to the theme of prices (although not cyberware in this case): the GM was a bit incredulous about the massively lower foci prices. Since I just read SG, I thought that the BC count is what intended to balance those prices, making foci less reliable. I think it's okay, but does it mean that force 1-2 foci are essentially pointless? Especially weapon foci. I get it depends on the GM and how frequent BC is in the game, but the prices are suggesting to me that force 3-4 foci should be the norm and that will be still a lot cheaper than weapon foci were in 3e (although it means that it would be overkill in a non-BC area, although limits are well, putting a limit on that). Or are there any methods for a weapon-focused adept to defend her foci from BC? I think a mystic adept is fairly straightforward with cleansing, but vanilla adepts? Or their above mentioned powers are affecting their foci too?

[Kiirnodel]

I can't really speak to the balance of pricing. I would guess that they went through a variety of things and did some re-balancing. A lot of the cyberware is priced differently than it was previously, for example.

If you are changing your entire game over to 5th edition, for now, I wouldn't worry about prices being different, simply convert your gear over how it is. When you go to buy new gear, chalk up price differences as fluctuations in the market. As far as Background Count goes, that can be related to the ambient mana level increasing over time causing the fluctuations in background to be wider in scale.

So yeah, Foci are definitely still heavily influenced by background, which is definitely up to the GM to throw in and keep aligned with how they want it to affect the game. I can't think of any way for an adept to "protect" their foci. One method, as you already mentioned is pumping up the force of the foci to prevent them from deactivating. If you're concerned about losing your foci, you might look into alternatives to depending on them.

An initiated adept could also gain access to the Imbue Item ritual, which could potentially be used to increase the effectiveness of a focus without increasing its actual Force. A GM might allow the Rectitude trait also increase its resistance to Background, for example. Or allow a background resistance as a separate, new Imbued trait.

Edited (forgot to mention the comments about the adept powers):
Sadly, those ways for adepts to circumvent background don't actually remove the effects of the background. They just allow the adept to ignore the penalties. They do have the benefit that if the adept is suffering other penalties (such as from wounds), and aren't in a background, those same powers can be used to ignore that other penalty instead. Heightened Concern, for example can be used to ignore a single penalty of up to half the adept's Magic attribute. It has to be from one source, and if the penalty is too great it does nothing, but otherwise quite effective against a penalty that lingers.

[PMárk]

Ok, thanks. So as it seems, weapon adepts are more exposed to the BC than brawling adepts. Or, if I'm counting the deactivating weapon focuses inability (again, if I'm correct) to attack astral beings, much more exposed.

[Kiirnodel]

Ok, thanks. So as it seems, weapon adepts are more exposed to the BC than brawling adepts. Or, if I'm counting the deactivating weapon focuses inability (again, if I'm correct) to attack astral beings, much more exposed.

I'm not sure "exposed" is really the right word, but susceptible to the effects, yeah. It's part of what comes with the territory of having a weapon. You gain a lot of benefits (Reach, higher damage, AP, the bonuses from the Weapon Focus in the first place), but it's a tool that is vulnerable to interference. Background Count, deactivation by enemy magicians, being disarmed, there's lots of way for a weapon to be circumvented.

It's one of the trade-offs, really. Honestly, I've seen an adept with a deactivated sword weapon focus still run in and beat the crap out of a spirit. Sure, they didn't automatically bypass the spirit's Hardened Armor, but they were still a better damage source than the rest of the team sporting SMGs.

[PMárk]

Forgive me, English isn't my first language and I'm pretty tired. You've been right, of course.

Your analysis seems legit and I agree it seems to balancing out on the long run.